Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #3 *ARREST*

[Dotta]

And this will be the revenge of poor sweet puppy!

 

[MsBetsy]

Im beginning to think that both C and B were equally obssessed with each other - both addicted to this strange, love/hate, toxic and destructive "relationship". But it is only my hyphotesis. They were both struggling mentally.

Well, the marriage was unhealthy but Caroline was the real victim, since she would not have been emotionally mature enough to handle such a situation, whereas Babis is a full grown man.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Here's an experienced criminal lawyer in a media interview. She hypothesizes a motive and a scenario in the same way as AK (AK is never mentioned). She says, based on her criminal law experience, that "This type of guy most likely didn't want C to reveal/expose some 'other things' (implication: criminal activities)." She thinks the reasons and motive B gave for C's murder in his confession and plea are baloney. These "other things" haven't come out yet, but should come out during the interrogation and investigation by the examining judge and the prosecutor. She also raises questions about why were LE so careful in transporting B to the courthouse (if you remember he was transferred with bullet proof vest, and what looked like the entire S.W.A.T. team). She wouldn't answer the newspersons' questions as to why this could have been, and said that it's something for the examining judge to find out (implication: when it's discovered what kind of criminal activities he was engaged in to warrant such a large show of protection by LE).

 

[Dotta]

Well, the marriage was unhealthy but Caroline was the real victim, since she would not have been emotionally mature enough to handle such a situation, whereas Babis is a full grown man.

But of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MsBetsy]

EVEN if we believe he killed C accidentally by hugging her too tightly out of love, EVEN if we believe once he realised she was dead, his first thought was he had to cover up the crime vs call the emergency services, EVEN if we believe C was emotionally unstable and prone to violent outbursts that could put her child in danger, EVEN if we believe everything B did after C's death - and continues to do - is motivated by Lydia's best interests, it's completely ludicrous to kill a puppy to make the robbery look "more realistic". IMO this is the biggest flaw in his (ever-changing) narrative that will ultimately undermine his defence - whatever reason/excuse/justification he wants to give for C's death, killing the puppy in cold blood makes absolutely no sense - to anyone other than B. JIMO

I think he will have a hard time convincing anyone even one of those things are true because the evidence refutes his whole story.

The murder was premeditated. Anyone capable of killing a human being is capable of killing an animal. Imo

 

[Tortoise]

I asked a while back if anyone knew who was looking after Lydia, as I found it strange (even alarming) if she remained in B's custody unless LE literally had zero suspicion he was implicated in C's murder. Now we know that they suspected him all along - and one of the first officers on the scene gave the child to B's mother as he was so concerned she might be in danger - I'm sure everyone is very relieved nothing happened to her while they kept up the pretence he wasn't a POI so as not to spook him. Maybe on balance they felt Lydia was safer if B thought he was in the clear and likely in danger if B thought LE were onto him. In which case, I would think they would rely quite heavily on the psychologist's view to make this risk assessment. JIMO

Perhaps that formed part of their reasoning for taking him from the memorial service while he didn't have the baby with him. It might have been the first time he left her since the murder.

 

[Dotta]

Perhaps that formed part of their reasoning for taking him from the memorial service while he didn't have the baby with him. It might have been the first time he left her since the murder.

He was always clutching her as a shield! I also noticed that he didn't protect her baby skin and head against the sun during the funeral.

 

[Lola68]

I think he will have a hard time convincing anyone even one of those things are true because the evidence refutes his whole story.

The murder was premeditated. Anyone capable of killing a human being is capable of killing an animal. Imo

Totally agree (reason for CAPS)! But if B somehow manages to convince a jury that he was driven to it by C's behaviour over time vs in the moment - let's remember that people have been acquitted/released on appeal when they've killed a psychologically abusive spouse in a "calm" state of mind after years of mental and/or physical abuse - I'm not aware of a case where the spouse has then gone on to kill a family pet unless suicidal themselves (which B clearly isn't). JIMO

 

[Tortoise]

Maybe the land purchase was the first step in bringing his plan to fruition, giving him the opportunity to say there was a leak about a large sum being in the house. It's too coincidentally close to the murder for my liking and the story about the torture wouldn't have worked without that element.

 

[Lola68]

He was always clutching her as a shield!

Snipped by me.
Because even if there was a price on his head, they wouldn't want to kill a baby?

 

[MsBetsy]

Totally agree (reason for CAPS)! But if B somehow manages to convince a jury that he was driven to it by C's behaviour over time vs in the moment - let's remember that people have been acquitted/released on appeal when they've killed a psychologically abusive spouse in a "calm" state of mind after years of mental and/or physical abuse - I'm not aware of a case where the spouse has then gone on to kill a family pet unless suicidal themselves (which B clearly isn't). JIMO

That's true, there have been a few cases where people have murdered their partners after years of abuse, and were not found guilty of felony murder. But those people were likely psychologically damaged as a result of the abuse, whereas in this case I think BA was emotionless and insecure long before the marriage.

But you're right, there may be some people who actually do sympathize with him.

I'm still waiting to hear if there was any physical violence on his part. We've only heard one side of the story in that regard. Not that emotional abuse isn't domestic violence, but I have a hard time believing he never physically harmed her before. Imo

 

[Lola68]

I'm getting unnerving flashbacks to "The Fall"

 

[Lola68]

That's true, there have been a few cases where people have murdered their partners after years of abuse, and were not found guilty of felony murder. But those people were likely psychologically damaged as a result of the abuse, whereas in this case I think BA was emotionless and insecure long before the marriage.

BBM

Please don't think I'm excusing B's behaviour in any way, but I think he too was psychologically damaged as a result of some (actual or perceived) abuse. I don't think people are born damaged beyond repair (although I do acknowledge impact of epigenetics). All IMO

 

[Wishingwell]

Caroline Crouch: Judge must decide who will look after baby Lydia as killer husband gets disowned by his family - Internewscast

 

[MsBetsy]

Replying to Lola68, (I think the above may be a broken quote) don't worry, I did not think you were excusing his behavior. There are plenty of criminals with mental health issues serving life sentences for their crimes.

I agree that mental health disorders can be a result of both genetic and environmental factors.

Your post made me think of Francine Hughes and the "battered-wife syndrome" defense.

Evidence can be admitted to prove a history of long term abuse, but it's also important to prove that the perpetrator feared for their life, ruling out other motives like jealousy or financial greed.

In a case where someone kills for self-preservation, or in order to protect their children and themselves from harm, it wouldn't be necessary to kill an animal unless they considered it to be a danger to their lives.

So yes, there was just no reason for B to kill the dog, other than for spite or to stage the scene.

Imo

 

[lonetraveler]

I feel so sorry for Caroline’s family and her baby. Many of us will have suspected him from the start but for all we know they believed his lies and he comforted them at the funeral. Has he no conscience? Lie after lie after lie. What is the process in Greece now that he has admitted it? I hope the baby is with Caroline’s family. I feel so sorry for them all. I also wonder who leaked the diary entries and are we 100% sure that she did actually write them? A diary/journal is a very personal thing. It is all so sad.

IMO, this case was a "no brainer" from the very start. An older, controlling dominating a very young girl. She wanted to leave, no surprise there at all. He wasn't about to let her leave, killed the dog to scare her into staying, threatened the baby to make her stay, then killed her in a fit of passion. Pathetic and very predictable.

 

[MsBetsy]

Caroline Crouch: Judge must decide who will look after baby Lydia as killer husband gets disowned by his family - Internewscast

Apparently both families are in agreement that B's parents should raise the baby.

 

[Silverlinging89]

He cannot wiggle out of anything premeditated when he removed the card from the camera before the act and attacked a sleeping woman, near to her baby.

these diary leaks are absolutely intended to make her look unstable and fit his narrative. He is prepared to drag her through the mud in death, to help himself, it is despicable.

she was a sheltered 20 yo, barely more than a child herself.

 

[tayaway]

Caroline Crouch: Judge must decide who will look after baby Lydia as killer husband gets disowned by his family - Internewscast

The report reveals Caroline had several bruises on her body

 

[everybodhi]

Diary entires reveal how Briton wanted to divorce her husband before he murdered her | Daily Mail Online

He cannot wiggle out of anything premeditated when he removed the card from the camera before the act and attacked a sleeping woman, near to her baby.

these diary leaks are absolutely intended to make her look unstable and fit his narrative. He is prepared to drag her through the mud in death, to help himself, it is despicable.

she was a sheltered 20 yo, barely more than a child herself.

And then he proved her right.
So stupid.

"1.20am: Babis removes the memory card from the camera, according to data stored in the device

Police say this happens after Caroline sent him a text calling him 'stupid'

He will later admit to snapping the memory card in half and flushing it down the toilet in what officers argue is evidence that the murder was premeditated"