Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, May 11, 2021

[Polly Graf]

I wonder why the robbers didn't bring knives instead of guns (which seems to me were fake because never used in 2 deaths: girl's and dog's).

Guns are too noisy to use unless it’s a last resort but very effective at keeping people under control! Knives would guarantee a lot of mess and the attacker very often gets cut too in the process of stabbing!

As for the dog, total guess but I reckon if it’s not aggressive anyway it’d be pretty easy to slip something over its neck and use a tourniquet to strangle it!

 

[everybodhi]

Great find, it does look possible that is is remote enough for nearby properties not to hear anything.

Except the building houses two apartments, separated by a wall.
A neighbor has said they heard the dog barking but assumed he was barking at cats, apparently the neighbor didn’t hear any of the screaming or crying though.

 

[Frannie]

Except the building houses two apartments, separated by a wall.
A neighbor has said they heard the dog barking but assumed he was barking at cats, apparently the neighbor didn’t hear any of the screaming or crying though.

So many things don’t add up. As you said their neighbours heard the dog barking but not the screaming going on in the house.... in a semi detached. Of course they could be sleeping on a different floor...

I also find it hard to believe that someone had been casing the place in the middle of the night and ringing random doorbells. This is supposed to be someone on a motorcycle.... they make too much noise and would attract too much attention (this was mentioned upthread).

Light in the Tunnel television show - from Wikipedia - not from me - it’s a general statement and has nothing to do with the case being discussed:

“Several later-convicted murderers have appeared on the show, either as guests or to search for their missing victims in an attempt to draw away suspicion.[“

Light In The Tunnel - Wikipedia

 

[Dotta]

Besides if LE is really quizzing Georgian mafia Im not too hopeful. They are fiercely loyal to one another and bound by omerta like Italian one. JMO

 

[charminglane]

I wonder if there were upstairs windows open in the house?
I have to have a window open to sleep.
Screaming should have been heard if dog barking was.

 

[Kemug]

Re the number of cameras in the home - yes, 6 - 8 seems a lot, but I believe the young couple were only renting, so the cameras could well have been already there.

 

[Mrs Marple]

Besides if LE is really quizzing Georgian mafia Im not too hopeful. They are fiercely loyal to one another and bound by omerta like Italian one. JMO

What is 'omerta ' Dotta?

 

[Patrick Jane]

Re the number of cameras in the home - yes, 6 - 8 seems a lot, but I believe the young couple were only renting, so the cameras could well have been already there.

That would make sense if the cameras were outside the home. However, these cameras were reportedly inside the home. I've never heard of a landlord being allowed to put cameras inside of a home. There are privacy laws in Greece, just like there are in the UK, the EU, the U.S. and many other countries, which would prevent this.

 

[Polly Graf]

That would make sense if the cameras were outside the home. However, these cameras were reportedly inside the home. I've never heard of a landlord being allowed to put cameras inside of a home. There are privacy laws in Greece, just like there are in the UK, the EU, the U.S. and many other countries, which would prevent this.

Good point!!

I’m not sure I know what to think about these cameras, I assume B must have told LE that most of them had batteries in….
I’d have thought so many indoor cameras would have been linked to an alarm system though as motion detectors, very odd that they weren’t!

Do we know how long ago he withdrew this money from the bank?

 

[Dotta]

What is 'omerta ' Dotta?

The code of silence

 

[Patrick Jane]

Good point!!

I’m not sure I know what to think about these cameras, I assume B must have told LE that most of them had batteries in….
I’d have thought so many indoor cameras would have been linked to an alarm system though as motion detectors, very odd that they weren’t!

Do we know how long ago he withdrew this money from the bank?

Very odd from a home security perspective, but not from another perspective. I'd share my suspicions, but I'm not sure that's allowed under the rules here. So I'll refrain until maybe a moderator can provide some more clarity on the rules.

 

[Tortoise]

Numerous MSM are reporting that the psychologist has provided "crucial evidence", e.g. Caroline Crouch murder: Police quiz couple's psychologist | Daily Mail Online

But B disagrees.

Νέα μαρτυρία ξετυλίγει το κουβάρι της δολοφονίας της Καρολάιν - Τα καυτά ερωτήματα και η αντίδραση του πιλότου | in.gr
Speaking on the show "Light in the Tunnel", the 32-year-old seemed particularly annoyed by the report to the psychologist that his wife was visiting.

In a communication he had with Angeliki Nikolouli, among other things, he stated: "I really do not know who thought that the psychologist we went to after my wife gave birth had anything to do with the robbery. I have heard speculations and speculations, but that our psychologist will help to find the perpetrators, is by far the most invalid ".

@Patrick Jane I am wondering if the google translation of the excerpt from the article quoted in the post above is fairly accurate?

Would you be so kind as to clarify for us please?

 

[Patrick Jane]

@Patrick Jane I am wondering if the google translation of the excerpt from the article quoted in the post above is fairly accurate?

Would you be so kind as to clarify for us please?

Yes, it's a fairly accurate translation. I can confirm that the husband used the word "robbery" here, not "murder."

 

[Tortoise]

Yes, it's a fairly accurate translation. I can confirm that the husband used the word "robbery" here, not "murder."

Thank you!

 

[Cryptic]

Wealthy areas are usually packed with cctv cameras all over the place (roads, doorbell cams, external house cams). Rich people invest in over the top security systems. Money is kept at banks and valuables also in safes in banks. The whole area is usually fenced with security officers. Who would like to die for a few bucks?

Though I agree with you that the more wealthy the area, the more cameras, I think the average amount of money in wealthy homes can vary by the country.

For example, as you indicated, most wealthy people in the US would not have significant amounts of money in their homes unless they had a cash oriented business- and probably not even then.

Greece, however, has experienced economic difficulties that have led to a distrust of government and perhaps banks. As other posters have mentioned, the building industry in particular is cash based in Greece. I would not be surprised if a lot of small to midsize businesses in Greece operate under the "cash and carry" mode for a variety of reasons.

This could then increase the average amount of cash wealthy Greeks would have at home and criminals operating under the presumption of: Intended victim owns a business. Cash transactions are the new normal. And.... victim is also hiring builders. Thus..... we"ll play the odds and presume there is enough reward to risk a robbery.

That does not mean, however, that there are no valid questions regarding the husband's claims.

 

[Dotta]

Έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά: Ποια στοιχεία αποδείχτηκαν «στάχτη» και πού στρέφεται πλέον η έρευνα

The shutters of the window were open before the attack according to this article. The husband told police "Maybe I forgot to close it?".

 

[Dotta]

Γλυκά Νερά: Συνεργείο καθαρισμού στη μεζονέτα - Αποφεύγει να μένει εκεί ο σύζυγος της Καρολάιν
Today the cleaning service cleaned the house.

 

[Winterbells]

Γλυκά Νερά: Συνεργείο καθαρισμού στη μεζονέτα - Αποφεύγει να μένει εκεί ο σύζυγος της Καρολάιν
Today the cleaning service cleaned the house.

seems very soon to do that, espcially as forensics don't seem to have found anything of use. One would think they'd go back and do another sweep.

 

[Patrick Jane]

<modsnip> allow me to attempt to phrase this in compliance with the rules.

As posted previously, there was a media report of 6-8 interior cameras found in the maisonette. There are no reports of any external cameras. In home security situations usually there are external cameras to monitor the external environment. Here it seems that only the internal environment was being monitored. Why? Were all these cameras necessary to monitor the baby? It seems an excessive amount of cameras to monitor the baby. Were these cameras to monitor visitors? Were visitors aware that they were being recorded?

this is speculation

<modsnip>

 

[Patrick Jane]

Γλυκά Νερά: Συνεργείο καθαρισμού στη μεζονέτα - Αποφεύγει να μένει εκεί ο σύζυγος της Καρολάιν
Today the cleaning service cleaned the house.

I'd describe it as a thorough cleaning. In this video at 0:47 one of the workers is seen power washing the steps to the front door.

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