Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, May 11, 2021

[caylee17799]

Έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά: Μέχρι τον Έβρο έφτασαν οι έρευνες της Αστυνομίας - Συνελήφθη Γεωργιανός - Τι εξετάζουν
"A Georgian man was arrested at the Evros Greek border, trying to flee the country with his car. There, the police stopped him for an identity verification process, and found out he had a fake passport. He was subsequently arrested and taken to the police HQ."
"After DNA analysis, the police discovered that the man had participated in a robbery at Pikermi on March 7th, where the robbers beat and tied up an elderly couple, as well as their housekeeper, and escaped, after stealing money and jewelry."
"Greek authorities are investigating if there are similarities between that crime and Caroline's murder, as well as if the arrested man could be involved in the robbery/homicide at Glyka Nera."

 

[Dotta]

Another thing - the house in a prestigious district of a capital city must cost a fortune. And yet only B worked as C looked after a baby and studied. Did they rent a house? As a pilot (helicopter) he might earn a lot, but still. I would check all money matters concerning this couple.

 

[Tortoise]

No descriptions of the jewellery that I have seen, or where it was kept in the house. Only cash inside a Monopoly box, according to the husband.

 

[Skigh]

Police investigating savage murder of British woman in Greece arrest a Georgian man near Bulgaria | Daily Mail Online

 

[Kittybunny]

Glad to see I'm not the only skeptical one here, but not surprised that my fellow Sleuthers' hunky meters are twitching as well.

Only time will tell I suppose!

 

[Dotta]

Police investigating savage murder of British woman in Greece arrest a Georgian man near Bulgaria | Daily Mail Online

The police are really working on full speed! Good The arrested man might be involved or not but he will pay for the attack he took part in, and hopefully lead to other arrests of his companions. No stone should be left unturned. Check everything - from gangs to B.

 

[Dotta]

The crime happened after over a year of pandemic. Many people lost their bussinesses and air traffic was severely impacted. Did B still work? Debts might piled up - expensive house to maintain, bills to pay, etc. A child arrived. This was an emotionally wrought year. I read that domestic violence soared all over the world. People caged at homes acted differently than in quiet, normal times.

 

[Tortoise]

The crime happened after over a year of pandemic. Many people lost their bussinesses and air traffic was severely impacted. Did B still work? Debts might pilled up - expensive house to maintain, bills to pay, etc. A child arrived. This was an emotionally wrought year. I read that domestic violence soared all over the world. People caged at homes acted differently than in quiet, normal times.

Also interesting to note that Greece had a nightly curfew in place at the time of this murder. From 3rd to 14th May it seems to have been 11pm to 5am, changing to 12.30am to 5am on 14th May. So there was a heightened risk of being stopped for anyone moving around between those hours.

Athens Reopens for Summer

COVID-19 Update

 

[caylee17799]

Also interesting to note that Greece had a nightly curfew in place at the time of this murder. From 3rd to 14th May it seems to have been 11pm to 5am, changing to 12.30pm to 5am on 14th May. So there was a heightened risk of being stopped for anyone moving around between those hours.

Athens Reopens for Summer

COVID-19 Update

Indeed, there was. However, it was VERY RARELY enforced. Like, you'd have to be driving in a well-frequented and patrolled highway, and even then be extremely unlucky to get stopped by the police. I mean, there were people partying on the streets during much stricter curfews we had (9 pm to 5am) right next to the police station and no one intervened. Your chances of being stopped at the quiet streets of a suburb during the early morning hours would probably be close to zero.

 

[Dotta]

Also interesting to note that Greece had a nightly curfew in place at the time of this murder. From 3rd to 14th May it seems to have been 11pm to 5am, changing to 12.30pm to 5am on 14th May. So there was a heightened risk of being stopped for anyone moving around between those hours.

Athens Reopens for Summer

COVID-19 Update

Not to mention this "look out" guy loitering in the street. If C was screaming her head off and B shouting and begging - how come a neighbour (separated only by a wall) only heard a poor dog barking? Well, the reports are all over the place and we, in fact, know nothing. And we dont accuse anybody but speculate as any armchair (or as in my case - sofa ) detectives do.

 

[Legally Bland]

Also interesting to note that Greece had a nightly curfew in place at the time of this murder. From 3rd to 14th May it seems to have been 11pm to 5am, changing to 12.30am to 5am on 14th May. So there was a heightened risk of being stopped for anyone moving around between those hours.

Athens Reopens for Summer

COVID-19 Update

They're going to stick out like a sore thumb on CCTV too. You'd think their whole journey (at least their route to the scene) would be pretty easy to trace. No idea what CCTV coverage is like in Greece though.

 

[Patrick Jane]

... sans mask as well.

Plus, what is he 'looking out' for? the police? and if so, what does he do next? nip inside and tell everyone to shush? and was the poor dog hanging from the railing at this point?

There was an early Greek media report that the lookout might have been smoking. So that's one speculation.

Apparently the perps entered the property from the adjacent empty lot, via a rear window. If the police came (from the road, as this would be the only way for the them to come) and the lookout saw them, he could have rushed inside and they could have all exited as they came in (via the rear window, then the empty lot), and it's probable that they would not have been discovered. Only if an especially astute policeman would have covered the empty lot side (unlikely given how early in the morning it was) would they have been caught. JMO

 

[Patrick Jane]

An oddity in the various (confused) reports.

If the dog was killed inside, why take it outside and hang it up? Seems somewhat theatrical.

Reports differ, I've read others which say the dog was hung in the stairwell, which from a video I've seen seems to be just behind the door, in a sort of turret, at the rear of the house. I watched an investigator entering that door and immediately start to ascend up some stairs.

Greece burglary murder: Husband 'begged' thieves not to hurt his family | Daily Mail Online

I'd be interested to know what time the neighbour heard the dog barking -

‘He was completely in shock. He couldn’t speak. I brought him a blanket. I’d heard the dog barking earlier in the night [before the pet was strangled] but although it was unusual for him to make a noise, as he is normally so quiet, I assumed he was just fighting with the cat.’
Grief-stricken mother of British woman murdered in Greek home by gang of robbers prays at graveside | Daily Mail Online

If they hung up the dog "outside" it would presumably be at the rear of the house where it wouldn't be visible from the road. See the quoted picture above.

Why was the dog killed? So the dog wouldn't bark and alert the neighbors who could potentially call police. This is a maisonette. There are people living directly next door. Keeping things quiet is imperative to these perps' plans, so they don't get caught.

 

[Dotta]

There was an early Greek media report that the lookout might have been smoking. So that's one speculation.

Apparently the perps entered the property from the adjacent empty lot, via a rear window. If the police came (from the road, as this would be the only way for the them to come) and the lookout saw them, he could have rushed inside and they could have all exited as they came in (via the rear window, then the empty lot), and it's probable that they would not have been discovered. Only if an especially astute policeman would have covered the empty lot side (unlikely given how early in the morning it was) would they have been caught. JMO

Well, I read it was a back door and they had a special key to open all kinds of doors. There was no glass from a broken window. You see - these reports might be the fantasies of journalists.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Well, I read it was a back door and they had a special key to open all kinds of doors. There was no glass from a broken window. You see - these reports might be the fantasies of journalists.

Greek media reported it as the rear window you see in that picture quoted above. The one to the right. It's actually very slightly ajar in the picture and in the videos shown on Greek media.

 

[Patrick Jane]

They're going to stick out like a sore thumb on CCTV too. You'd think their whole journey (at least their route to the scene) would be pretty easy to trace. No idea what CCTV coverage is like in Greece though.

Greek media is reporting that apparently the perps parked at another location, and walked to the house via the empty lot.

I'd say there is a fair amount of CCTV coverage in Greece, because many businesses, hotels, and some private residences have them. Many are the older lower resolution cameras, although this is slowly improving across the country.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Police investigating savage murder of British woman in Greece arrest a Georgian man near Bulgaria | Daily Mail Online

from the article:

"The development comes as it is revealed that Caroline’s husband, who is known as Babis, has helped police identify two of the weapons carried by the raiders.
He said the burglars carried a silver Colt and a black pistol. Police said the weapons were unusual to find in Greece and believe tracing them could prove vital in identifying Miss Crouch’s killers."

This information about the guns is an important detail which we hadn't seen mentioned in this thread prior to this article being posted.

 

[Dotta]

I remember Colts from old "western" movies I watched as a kid. John Wayne where are you when we need you?

 

[Satchie]

I remember Colts from old "western" movies I watched as a kid. John Wayne where are you when we need you?

"The ubiquitous Colt M1911 .45-caliber pistol has seen action everywhere the U.S. military has fought for the past century — from the trenches of the Western Front to the mountains of Afghanistan. Although eclipsed in recent years by more modern side-arms, upgraded variants are still widely used by in the American military. In 2012, the U.S. Marines ordered 12,000 brand-new pistols based on the classic Model 1911."

Killer Antiques – 13 Weapons From WW2 That Are Still In Use Today - MilitaryHistoryNow.com

 

[Dotta]

"The ubiquitous Colt M1911 .45-caliber pistol has seen action everywhere the U.S. military has fought for the past century — from the trenches of the Western Front to the mountains of Afghanistan. Although eclipsed in recent years by more modern side-arms, upgraded variants are still widely used by in the American military. In 2012, the U.S. Marines ordered 12,000 brand-new pistols based on the classic Model 1911."

Killer Antiques – 13 Weapons From WW2 That Are Still In Use Today - MilitaryHistoryNow.com

I know that they are still used. But all these snippets of info are so over the top I have a feeling Im watching a poorly written B movie about a Dumb and Dumber gang - Im surprised the "overweight" villain didn't get stuck in the small window he was breaking through, with his legs dangling in the air. But unfortunately, it is not a silly film but reality with a beautiful mother viciously murdered. RIP