Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, May 11, 2021

[scandinavian girl]

"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark"

Hamlet, I only heard this expression twice and I do agree now that I know what it means.

 

[Dotta]

Caroline was found on the bed right?

So where exactly was the baby for over an hour? It seems we’re led to believe that she was just holding the babe, therefore untied, while her husband is passed out and she’s interrogated for 30-40 minutes before finally starting to scream……but even if that were the case, I don’t see any of the robbers holding the babe for 8 minutes and it can’t possibly have balanced on the side of the bed while this suffocation happened, so how did it get on the bed again to be supposedly trying to wake her when the police arrived?

The timeline just doesn’t work for me, I can’t imagine these guys would ask politely more than 2 or 3 times before starting to really hurt somebody and apart from obviously her death by suffocation I haven’t heard anything about other bad injuries to either of them.

I’m wondering if it’s more likely they burst in, one of them went straight for the dog while the other 2 went to the bedroom, got B under control by pointing the gun at him then made him take the baby while they fought Caroline and got her under control also. So perhaps he wasn’t tied up until the end and was never unconscious, it’s possible even that he’s completely innocent but changed the version of events through feeling guilty he couldn’t do more to save her!

The alternative I suppose is that he DID know these guys, they were there because he’d really pissed them off somehow and they stayed so long having some kind of heated negotiations, Caroline either killed by accident or because of what she had just seen and heard……

That was my thinking on the therapist, maybe Caroline had mentioned sometime about some shady people B knew or something he was previously involved with.

JMOO

You know - your theory of shady business contacts seems the most plausible to me. It is so down to earth and simple explanation that it seems to be true. Business and debts gone wrong. How prosaic and sad at the same time.

 

[caylee17799]

https://www.newsit.gr/egklhma/glyka...News-o-32xronos-syzygos-tis-karolain/3289053/
B's more recent interview regarding the therapist and the questions the police are trying to answer. I'll try to post a translation as soon as I can.

 

[Lola68]

I haven't read details about how the dog died other than by hanging, but I would imagine it would be quite difficult to overpower a dog that felt threatened without getting bitten or scratched - and it would make a lot of noise. Unless the perp was known to the dog and therefore the dog had no reason to be afraid

 

[Lola68]

https://www.newsit.gr/egklhma/glyka...News-o-32xronos-syzygos-tis-karolain/3289053/
B's more recent interview regarding the therapist and the questions the police are trying to answer. I'll try to post a translation as soon as I can.

Google translate does it automatically - am I allowed to copy and paste
the full article in English here?

 

[caylee17799]

https://www.newsit.gr/egklhma/glyka...News-o-32xronos-syzygos-tis-karolain/3289053/
"As [Babis] describes, he and his wife were seeing the therapist, to get help and guidance through some problems that the young mother was facing after her baby's birth".
"Of course I knew this therapist. We would go, always with my wife, to her office, until about Christmas. Every woman who has experienced it, knows. It's difficult, the woman going through it needs love and help. Caroline was strong and moved forward, with a little help from me and the therapist, and a lot from our daughter."
"The police, through the therapist's statement, tried to find out if there was anything bothering the 20-year old and if that could help the investigation in any way. The 32-year old pilot clarifies that this statement, along with everything else that has been uncovered through investigative journalism, have already been investigated to their full extent by the police."
"Whatever findings you hear as "news" , have been known for days. They stir them up now, along with endless speculations, for the matter to stay in the limelight, and I understand that, because that's how it always goes. Everyone had warned me that, once the primary facts were done, the story tries to grasp everything it can find, at least till it stops "selling". That's why I'm not surprised."
"The pilot also mentioned the so-called "unanswered questions" regarding the circumstances, under which the tragedy took place. He states that such questions don't exist, since, from the very beginning, he has given the police a full and detailed account of what took place last Tuesday."
"Whatever questions unearth from "reporting" now, had already been answered in detail a few hours after the robbery. Regarding the existence of new evidence that could "unlock" the case, I am not aware of any. Hopefully, though, there will be some soon, and no other family goes through what we did."
"The 32-year old is in close contact with the police that are on the case, whereas the next days, another person close to* Caroline is expected to give a statement to the authorities".

*Edit: I thought I had heard on the news that this person is a relative of hers. However, the article clearly states just "a person close to", so I corrected that.

 

[caylee17799]

Some of the phrases B used were kinda confusing and not very easy to translate, so I apologize in advance if, at some points, it's not clear what I'm trying to say.

 

[Dotta]

Some of the phrases B used were kinda confusing and not very easy to translate, so I apologize in advance if, at some points, it's not clear what I'm trying to say.

I cant see any TWIST here or any revelations. It seems Winterbells was right haha. I was also sure he was in custody, and here he is - giving interviews, meeting with press. So it seems we have here another unsolved case. A future "cold case" - maybe one day justice will be done for Caroline.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Γλυκά Νερά: Ερωτήματα για τη δολοφονία της 20χρονης Καρολάιν – Πού στρέφονται οι έρευνες - ΤΑ ΝΕΑ

The video embedded in that link has some interesting details.

The policeman states some information from the police's perspective.

He confirms that media reports that the police are having difficulty finding any DNA evidence are accurate reports. Around 13:45 he describes how, in order for no DNA to be found, the alleged perps would have had to been clothed very carefully, gloves and special clothing so that no DNA would be left behind.

One of the journalists at 15:20 asks him "therefore, at this moment we have two possibilities: one possibility is that three thieves entered the residence and committed the murder, and the second possibility is that people did not enter (i.e. no one entered)" and the policeman agrees.

at 16:15 the journalist states that the victim died of asphyxiation/suffocation and the policeman did not disagree with this description of the cause of death. I'd take this as further evidence that reports of "strangulation" in some of the English-language media sources are incorrect.

at 18:30 the reporter talks about 6-8 cameras inside the residence. This is the first I'm hearing about the cameras being interior cameras. And this is the first time I've heard a description of so many cameras.

 

[jenn83]

Έγκλημα-Γλυκά Νερά:«Ήθελαν να την σκοτώσουν»-Αποδίδει καρπούς η επικήρυξη των δολοφόνων της Καρολάιν; | ΣΚΑΪ
It says that B was found on the floor tied right next to the bed, while Caroline was found face down on the bed, with her 11 month old baby right next to her (also on the bed). So, it seems like through the entire ordeal, the baby stayed on the bed, provided that no one moved her around.
The article also states that it would be quite impossible to have killed her accidentally, and that whoever did it, meant to do so.

I thought he was in a different room?

 

[dormouse]

The video embedded in that link has some interesting details.

The policeman states some information from the police's perspective.

He confirms that media reports that the police are having difficulty finding any DNA evidence are accurate reports. Around 13:45 he describes how, in order for no DNA to be found, the alleged perps would have had to been clothed very carefully, gloves and special clothing so that no DNA would be left behind.

One of the journalists at 15:20 asks him "therefore, at this moment we have two possibilities: one possibility is that three thieves entered the residence and committed the murder, and the second possibility is that people did not enter (i.e. no one entered)" and the policeman agrees.

at 16:15 the journalist states that the victim died of asphyxiation/suffocation and the policeman did not disagree with this description of the cause of death. I'd take this as further evidence that reports of "strangulation" in some of the English-language media sources are incorrect.

at 18:30 the reporter talks about 6-8 cameras inside the residence. This is the first I'm hearing about the cameras being interior cameras. And this is the first time I've heard a description of so many cameras.

Very interesting, especially the 6-8 cameras INSIDE the residence, presumably all of which were faulty or had their memory cards removed? This is a wealthy area in what’s generally a pretty safe country. I can’t get my head around that number of cameras indoors.

 

[Dotta]

Very interesting, especially the 6-8 cameras INSIDE the residence, presumably all of which were faulty or had their memory cards removed? This is a wealthy area in what’s generally a pretty safe country. I can’t get my head around that number of cameras indoors.

What's the use of them if they are faulty? Sigh.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Very interesting, especially the 6-8 cameras INSIDE the residence, presumably all of which were faulty or had their memory cards removed? This is a wealthy area in what’s generally a pretty safe country. I can’t get my head around that number of cameras indoors.

I agree. And you wouldn't need so many cameras to monitor an 11 month old baby, right?

Also, how would the alleged perps know for sure that these cameras weren't backing up to the cloud? Because if they were backing up to the cloud, then evidence of the murder is now caught on video, and cannot be erased.

I had to listen multiple times to be sure I was hearing it right. She says "cameras found in the interior space of the house" and "(it's) estimated 6-8 cameras were found inside". Maybe @caylee17799 can share her thoughts on this.

 

[caylee17799]

I thought he was in a different room?

At first that's what the media reported. However, the husband in his statement said that they were all sleeping upstairs in the attic, where everything happened (I've posted his statement translated in English a few pages back) and in this article it points out that the police found them all in the attic, as described (Caroline face down on the bed/baby right next to her/husband tied up on the floor next to the bed).

 

[caylee17799]

I agree. And you wouldn't need so many cameras to monitor an 11 month old baby, right?

Also, how would the alleged perps know for sure that these cameras weren't backing up to the cloud? Because if they were backing up to the cloud, then evidence of the murder is now caught on video, and cannot be erased.

I had to listen multiple times to be sure I was hearing it right. She says "cameras found in the interior space of the house" and "(it's) estimated 6-8 cameras were found inside". Maybe @caylee17799 can share her thoughts on this.

The video won't play. I tried multiple times, I'll give it a try using a different device later... but indeed, 6-8 interior cameras sound like a lot!

 

[Patrick Jane]

The video won't play. I tried multiple times, I'll give it a try using a different device later... but indeed, 6-8 interior cameras sound like a lot!

Try this link:

Ερωτήματα για τη δολοφονία στα Γλυκά Νερά – Μπαλάσκας: Παντού στρέφονται οι έρευνες | MEGA TV

 

[caylee17799]

Try this link:

Ερωτήματα για τη δολοφονία στα Γλυκά Νερά – Μπαλάσκας: Παντού στρέφονται οι έρευνες | MEGA TV

Yes, this works! Thank you!

 

[Winterbells]

I cant see any TWIST here or any revelations. It seems Winterbells was right haha. I was also sure he was in custody, and here he is - giving interviews, meeting with press. So it seems we have here another unsolved case. A future "cold case" - maybe one day justice will be done for Caroline.

Hi @Dotta - not quite sure what you think I'm right about, lol?

 

[Dotta]

Hi Dotta - not quite sure what you think I'm right about, lol?

That whatever the therapist says is not relevant to the case.

 

[Winterbells]

That whatever the therapist says is not relevant to the case.

Ah, I see. That's not what I was getting at, but never mind.