Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #2

[Zuri]

I haven't mentioned this on WS, but I am a veteran Head Start teacher.

If you think kids don't live like this in the USA, find your local Head Start grantee and volunteer in a classroom or the office. Kids live like this within a few miles of your home.

You need the education, and the kids and the program need you.

Yes, these conditions exist in most counties in the US.

Laughing

Brava to you. What you do is so important. God Bless You.

I know these conditions exist in America and every country on the planet. Judging the way people live in other cultures, because it may be different from the American "ideal", is probably due to a lack of education, awareness and exposure. I am an American and I think most Americans are ignorant of conditions and cultures that are not directly impacting them. As Linda7NJ intimated, it is the classic sticking your head in the sand. This ignorance is dangerous and responsible for "racism" in it's truest sense. The gift of an education that you impart to these children (and their families) may be the only chance they have in this world of changing their birth circumstances.

You are one of the nameless and unrecognized Heroes of our country.
Thank you.....

 

[LadyL]

Seems to me many people never leave their comfort zone and are clearly disinterested in what's going on anywhere outside of it.

I like to call it "ostrich syndrome" .... Well... Not really ....I have another name for it, I just can't use it here


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the 'ostrich syndrome' can be equally applied to those who refuse to see the reality of a situation because they're too passionate about defending an entire culture from judgment

the reality in this case is that these people live criminal lifestyles and it is not ideal for any child of any race anywhere in the world to live in a home with criminals

I refuse to accept that since criminality is a part of the culture, that society should turn a blind eye to that and decide that since it's the only family she's ever known, that she's best returned there

perhaps they can find a loving Roma couple who are not criminals to adopt her - that would be ideal IMO

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

:floorlaugh:

Gypsy.

 

[Wendy101]

I have been reading posts saying the only reason they were interested in mariah was that she didn't look like her parents... i don't think that is true.. Remember they lie, it is in their culture to do so. I think police were watching this family for another reason and once they started watching they did take note of mariahs looks.

I am sure the police KNOW what IS happening with children being sold or abducted to be sold, so their eyes are trained to watch for that... I am HAPPY they were awarer and took action with Mariah. They did their job! had they not done their job and mariah had infact been an abducted, and the LE turned a blind eye to it, what then?

All this lying and stealing as part of a culture? I don't buy it. Sorry, but EVERY gypsy person lies and steals?? no. I highly doubt it.

IMO. Any HUMAN that is caught lying and stealing to the LE when questioned, should be dealt with accordingly, not get a pass by saying "it's my culture" .

I believe mariah should be put up for adoption, since her birth mother has been charged for selling other children. The people mariah knows as mom and dad, are not her mom and dad and that family has no legal right to her, unless they legally adopt her... Which, IMO, they will do if they love her like their own.

 

[sfbaynancydrew]

Wow, so little Maria is Roma. That's pretty cool. I like stories that defy prejudice and pre-conceived notions.

Her gypsy foster parents, as they were, told the truth after all. Also cool and flying in the face of stereotypes.

Now as to what happens to all of them, I can't even being to guess. What a giant mess.

The Greece authorities are probably disappointed that they didn't recuse a kidnapped caucasian child from the clutches of evil gypsies. Turns out she was merely passed on to another clan member like any other member of her tribe would be if times/circumstances called for it.

She looks loved to me by the people in her foster family (and extended foster family).

Here's a link with videos that I haven't seen before. What a cute, cute girl.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_1...dentifies-mother-of-mystery-gypsy-girl-maria/

 

[Wendy101]

I am so sorry, but I am just not getting your point in any of this. I did not realize that love was only limited to those who you are biologically related to. I did not realize that the law was more important than recognizing cultural, religious and ethnic differences within societies. I did not realize that I am more important because I am wealthy, educated and white living an upper class lifestyle that the Roma families could never imagine. I was taught to respect those that were different and less fortunate, and try to understand their way of life, even though it was different than my own. I am not being snarky. I just don't understand and I am desperately trying to do so. I owe you that. I hope you can owe the parents of this child that too. JMO

IMO. if you do not follow your own laws, you can be arrested and dealt with accordingly for your crime.
So, yes, the law is pretty important... Especially if you have little ones home to love and protect.. If you break your law and land yourself in jail...

 

[sfbaynancydrew]

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/150060/maria-case-roma-europe

"Two Roma Child-Trafficking Sagas Underscore a Larger Context of European Prejudice
Old, familiar attitudes are rekindled in the wake of the cases of ‘Maria’ in Greece and a Roma girl in Dublin"

 

[Zuri]

I am so glad that I don't live in a land of ignorance and bliss. The compassion I have for others has gotten me pretty far, so I think I will stay there. JMV

 

[modesty blaise]

I expect the hoopla will die down now little maria is not who they thought she was.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I am not sure how to make any clearer-the adoption was not legal. In fact under Greek law it's considered an abduction. So extended family of Greek Romas doesn't have any rights to the child.

I don't know how much clearer I can make myself. It's wrong to remove her from her family, her community and her culture.

I don't care if her birth mother was given $900 to help her return home and feed her other children. I view it as an exchange. If bio mom simply handed her child over, that's fine with me too. The majority of these people can't read or write and does anyone look like they could afford to adopt the legal way?

For the record, legal private adoption here & abroad is big business. Money is exchanged. Large amounts of money. which IMO looks far more like child selling than what happened in this case. Typically everyone's making money except the birth parent.

So you or anyone else can wrap it up and put whatever bow you want on it. This is NOT child trafficking.

I'd rather her birth mother get a few dollars than for much larger amounts of money paid to some adoption agency that would place her outside of the Roma culture.


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[Linda7NJ]

Brava to you. What you do is so important. God Bless You.

I know these conditions exist in America and every country on the planet. Judging the way people live in other cultures, because it may be different from the American "ideal", is probably due to a lack of education, awareness and exposure. I am an American and I think most Americans are ignorant of conditions and cultures that are not directly impacting them. As Linda7NJ intimated, it is the classic sticking your head in the sand. This ignorance is dangerous and responsible for "racism" in it's truest sense. The gift of an education that you impart to these children (and their families) may be the only chance they have in this world of changing their birth circumstances.

You are one of the nameless and unrecognized Heroes of our country.
Thank you.....

Clearly, Americans are severely lacking education in this area. It's frightening & disgusting considering the history of this country.



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[jjenny]

Clearly, Americans are severely lacking education in this area. It's frightening & disgusting considering the history of this country.



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It's pretty simple. If you live in a country, you have to follow its laws.
You can't just decide what laws you like and what laws you don't.
If somebody doesn't have 14 children, it's not o'key to claim that they do, just so they can collect welfare benefits. It's not prejudice to charge someone if they are breaking laws.

 

[Linda7NJ]

the 'ostrich syndrome' can be equally applied to those who refuse to see the reality of a situation because they're too passionate about defending an entire culture from judgment

the reality in this case is that these people live criminal lifestyles and it is not ideal for any child of any race anywhere in the world to live in a home with criminals

I refuse to accept that since criminality is a part of the culture, that society should turn a blind eye to that and decide that since it's the only family she's ever known, that she's best returned there

perhaps they can find a loving Roma couple who are not criminals to adopt her - that would be ideal IMO

Wow just wow....


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[jjenny]

I don't know how much clearer I can make myself. It's wrong to remove her from her family, her community and her culture.

I don't care if her birth mother was given $900 to help her return home and feed her other children. I view it as an exchange. If bio mom simply handed her child over, that's fine with me too. The majority of these people can't read or write and does anyone look like they could afford to adopt the legal way?

For the record, legal private adoption here & abroad is big business. Money is exchanged. Large amounts of money. which IMO looks far more like child selling than what happened in this case. Typically everyone's making money except the birth parent.

So you or anyone else can wrap it up and put whatever bow you want on it. This is NOT child trafficking.

I'd rather her birth mother get a few dollars than for much larger amounts of money paid to some adoption agency that would place her outside of the Roma culture.


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Even if you'd rather, it's still not going to make it legal.

 

[Linda7NJ]

the 'ostrich syndrome' can be equally applied to those who refuse to see the reality of a situation because they're too passionate about defending an entire culture from judgment

the reality in this case is that these people live criminal lifestyles and it is not ideal for any child of any race anywhere in the world to live in a home with criminals

I refuse to accept that since criminality is a part of the culture, that society should turn a blind eye to that and decide that since it's the only family she's ever known, that she's best returned there

perhaps they can find a loving Roma couple who are not criminals to adopt her - that would be ideal IMO

Wow just wow....

You said.....

"the reality in this case is that these people live criminal lifestyles and it is not ideal for any child of any race anywhere in the world to live in a home with criminals"

So now you want this family to be held to an even higher standard than even here in the USA

You're social engineering ideas are ....impossible, unrealistic, and demonstrate the astronomical lack of education on this subject. This isn't a personal attack. An observation and comment directed more toward the education system itself.

Ideally, there would be no criminals anywhere in the world. I don't live in an ideal world, and neither do you.





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[Zuri]

It's pretty simple. If you live in a country, you have to follow its laws.
You can't just decide what laws you like and what laws you don't.
If somebody doesn't have 14 children, it's not o'key to claim that they do, just so they can collect welfare benefits. It's not prejudice to charge someone if they are breaking laws.

We are talking about Head Start. A poster up thread has witnessed extreme poverty first hand in this country through her thankless, heroic job as a Head Start teacher.

 

[Zuri]

This incident in Greece reminds me of the Nazis taking women, men and children out of their homes because they practiced a different religion. They were not Aryan. Because of those differences, they were sent to concentration camps and killed. And it was all legal according to Hitler. I think we need to be careful that history does not repeat itself. Those were crimes against humanity that are unimaginable. JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

This incident in Greece reminds me of the Nazis taking women, men and children out of their homes because they practiced a different religion. They were not Aryan. Because of those differences, they were sent to concentration camps and killed. And it was all legal according to Hitler. I think we need to be careful that history does not repeat itself. Those were crimes against humanity that are unimaginable. JMO

How many gypsies did Hitler murder?
I know it was a lot!



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[freckles]

the 'ostrich syndrome' can be equally applied to those who refuse to see the reality of a situation because they're too passionate about defending an entire culture from judgment

the reality in this case is that these people live criminal lifestyles and it is not ideal for any child of any race anywhere in the world to live in a home with criminals

I refuse to accept that since criminality is a part of the culture, that society should turn a blind eye to that and decide that since it's the only family she's ever known, that she's best returned there

perhaps they can find a loving Roma couple who are not criminals to adopt her - that would be ideal IMO

Better get a whole fleet of busses to go into very city in the uS and round up all the children who live with criminals.

It's not realistic to think that every child will be raised in a perfect house with perfect parents. You have to prioritize and help the worst first.

I would prefer to leave children in homes with petty criminals than and help those living with abusers and murderers.

 

[Linda7NJ]

This incident in Greece reminds me of the Nazis taking women, men and children out of their homes because they practiced a different religion. They were not Aryan. Because of those differences, they were sent to concentration camps and killed. And it was all legal according to Hitler. I think we need to be careful that history does not repeat itself. Those were crimes against humanity that are unimaginable. JMO

It surely sounds to me that many MANY people have already dehumanized all of the adult Roma.

That's step #1 leading to genocide.

And it scares the hell outta me.


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