Guatemala - Nancy Ng, 29, from Monterey Park CA, missing during Yoga Retreat, 19 Oct 2023

[Dhighsmith]

Well, it’s nearly impossible to narrow down our focus on the actual resort, the number of resorts dedicated as a yoga retreat near the Lake is far too many.

 

[10ofRods]

Towards the bottom:

"the Guatemalan Public Ministry said in a statement on Tuesday...she and another person eventually broke off from the group, and they continued to kayak for slightly over a mile into the lake before Ng "decided to jump into the lake to swim, at which point she disappeared," according to the statement. "

Southern California woman disappeared during yoga retreat in Guatemala weeks ago, family says

Nancy Ng, a 29-year-old from L.A., was first reported missing Oct. 19 while on a yoga retreat in Lake Atitlán in Guatemala, according to her family.

www.cbsnews.com

THANK you - I'd read it too, but didn't have a source so didn't want to run with it.

We still don't know if "the group" was one gathered together by a kayak concession, apart from the "Yoga retreat" or not.

And we might never. Totally agree with @RickShaw about the level of risk.

 

[Cedars]

I only said strong swimmer because it might have allowed her to get back to the kayak or to survive long enough for some one to look for her- I think it took awhile for the other woman to get back to the group; awhile for anyone in the group to contact anyone else. It all took a long time.

But if a person does not resurface, they will become unconscious very quickly. If it were me there as witness, I'd paddle around where she went in, calling, looking in every direction at the flat water, trying to see a shape. How long before I would leave the site and go for help? Whenever I was convinced, in total despair, that she was dead. Twenty minutes, say?

No one can stay under water for 20 minutes and then re-emerge and try to save herself.

JMO

 

[RickshawFan]

Not generalizing, but it is easy for people who hike, do yoga, running, training, to over estimate fitness level. Swimming is completely different, especially when the water is cold.

My daughter is 25, in way better shape than me, I can beat her swimming any day. I am usually at least 5 lengths ahead of her when we do 20. Something to think about.

As I think about it, swimming of any ability might not be relevant if, say, Ng got caught in an old fishing net when she did the dive.

 

[RickshawFan]

But if a person does not resurface, they will become unconscious very quickly. If it were me there as witness, I'd paddle around where she went in, calling, looking in every direction at the flat water, trying to see a shape. How long before I would leave the site and go for help? Whenever I was convinced, in total despair, that she was dead. Twenty minutes, say?

No one can stay under water for 20 minutes and then re-emerge and try to save herself.

JMO

It might also be hard not to drift away from the point where she dove in. If all you see is water, and you’re floating around, and your buddy’s boat was drifting, how would you fix your location? You’d have to have GPS to know?

Also, I wonder if the buddy was towing the riderless boat when Ng took the dive?

 

[Cedars]

Just posting this because it records two separate incidents, days apart, of people in the US who jumped off a boat into the same lake and failed to resurface. It is one of innumerable cases that appear when I search 'victim jumped into water did not resurface.

Two drownings in less than a week in Lac La Belle, Wisconsin

In both cases, the men jumped off boats to swim in the lake and did not resurface

www.wisn.com

I don't know what the mechanism is that prevents the person resurfacing, but it certainly isn't unusual.

JMO

 

[RickshawFan]

Well, it’s nearly impossible to narrow down our focus on the actual resort, the number of resorts dedicated as a yoga retreat near the Lake is far too many.

Sigh. The idea of cachet western-yoga in western-yoga “retreats” with mods and cons, in such a pristine environment with a singular culture and history, seems kinda sacrilegious to me. And all the profit is likely going into Western pockets. Guatemala is such an impoverished country, and noticing that reality doesn’t seem to be on the menu at these yoga places. They’re like a world unto themselves. Same with that place in Costa Rica where Kaitlin Armstrong hid, and the many surf spots along the Central American coastline.

Anyway, I’m feeling sour about the fashionable build-up on Lake Atitlán. I want some places in the universe to be left to locals, with their way of doing things.

 

[Cedars]

It might also be hard not to drift away from the point where she dove in. If all you see is water, and you’re floating around, and your buddy’s boat was drifting, how would you fix your location? You’d have to have GPS to know?

Also, I wonder if the buddy was towing the riderless boat when Ng took the dive?

Yes, I'm sure once she left the site, she really couldn't go back to exactly where it was.

JMO

 

[RickshawFan]

Just posting this because it records two separate incidents, days apart, of people in the US who jumped off a boat into the same lake and failed to resurface. It is one of innumerable cases that appear when I search 'victim jumped into water did not resurface.

Two drownings in less than a week in Lac La Belle, Wisconsin

In both cases, the men jumped off boats to swim in the lake and did not resurface

www.wisn.com

I don't know what the mechanism is that prevents the person resurfacing, but it certainly isn't unusual.

JMO

Isn’t there something like cold-shock that can stop your heart?

And the two had probably been out there with the sun beating down on them for several hours at that point. (I’d be hallucinating just from all that sun, especially if it was the middle of the day).
Yep:

Cold Water Hazards and Safety

Warm air doesn’t always mean warm water in lakes, streams or oceans. Fifty five degree water may not sound very cold, but it can be deadly. Plunging into cold water of any temperature becomes dangerous if you aren’t prepared for what the sudden exposure can do to your body and brain. Warm air temperatures can create a false sense of security for boaters and beach goers, so if you are planning to be on or near the water, arrive knowing the conditions and how to protect yourself. Cold water drains body heat up to 4 times faster than cold air. When your body hits cold water, “cold shock” can cause dramatic changes in breathing, heart rate and blood pressure. The sudden gasp and rapid breathing alone creates a greater risk of drowning even for confident swimmers in calm waters. In rougher open water this danger increases. Unplanned immersion in cold water can be life-threatening for anyone without protection from the temperatures or a lifejacket to help you stay afloat. When Cold Shock and Hypothermia begin to impact your ability to think and act, lifejackets and floatation can create extra time for help to arrive or for you to get out of danger. Even the most experienced cold water surfers, swimmers or boaters know to prepare for the conditions.

 

[RickshawFan]

Yes, I'm sure once she left the site, she really couldn't go back to exactly where it was.

JMO

I would be really confused, especially if in a panic, because my buddy had disappeared into the deep.

 

[Cedars]

Sigh. The idea of cachet western-yoga in western-yoga “retreats” with mods and cons, in such a pristine environment with a singular culture and history, seems kinda sacrilegious to me. And all the profit is likely going into Western pockets. Guatemala is such an impoverished country, and noticing that reality doesn’t seem to be on the menu at these yoga places. They’re like a world unto themselves. Same with that place in Costa Rica where Kaitlin Armstrong hid, and the many surf spots along the Central American coastline.

Anyway, I’m feeling sour about the fashionable build-up on Lake Atitlán. I want some places in the universe to be left to locals, with their way of doing things.

One thing I've heard, the villages are all built fairly high up from the lake surface, because the level is so variable. This has left the shoreline uninhabited for Westerners to build homes and, more recently hotels. (The early ones have already gone under water when the lake rose in the 90s).

Anyway, tourists don't see many Maya unless they hike the steep roads up to the villages (no doubt a few are employed in the tourist zone.)

JMO

 

[RickshawFan]

Here are some specifics from the NOAA article I just cited:

COLD SHOCK

• Gasping for Breath & Rapid Breathing (2-3 Minutes or More)
  Cold Water Immersion can trigger involuntary gasping, rapid breathing or hyperventilating due to the “shock” of sudden immersion. This uncontrolled rapid breathing can quickly create a drowning emergency if you inhale water and cannot stay afloat.
• Heart and Blood Pressure Problems
  Cold water can cause a sudden spike in heart rate and blood pressure. This increase can cause heart failure and stroke for vulnerable people.
• Cognitive Impairment
  Cold shock can cause an immediate panic, fear or stress reaction that then impairs clear thinking and decision making. Extended exposure and the onset of hypothermia can further hamper cognitive ability and the ability to choose the right actions to avoid severe injury or death.

PHYSICAL INCAPACITATION
Physical incapacitation is a loss of muscular control in the arms, legs, hands and feet, and the impact can be felt within seconds of entering cold water. The longer the exposure, or the colder the water, the more severe the impact can become. With a loss of muscular control to keep your head above the water, along with the lack of a lifejacket or floatation device, drowning will become inevitable. Symptoms may include weakness, exhaustion, and an inability to control fingers, hands, arms or legs. The progressive loss of muscular control makes staying afloat without assistance or self-rescue virtually impossible.

 

[RickshawFan]

One thing I've heard, the villages are all built fairly high up from the lake surface, because the level is so variable. This has left the shoreline uninhabited for Westerners to build homes and, more recently hotels. (The early ones have already gone under water when the lake rose in the 90s).

Anyway, tourists don't see many Maya unless they hike the steep road up to the village (no doubt a few are employed in the tourist zone.)

JMO

Yes, this is what I recall: no villages at the shoreline. Actually, nothing at the shoreline.

Interesting that the lake swallowed up foreign establishments. karma! Or rather, revenge from a local deity of the lake.

The indigenous folks dazzled me as a child: every village had a distinctive form of dress, with bright colors offsetting their striking ethnicity. I felt so privileged to be there.

It was so off-the beaten path, they didn’t even have bread in the one hotel. All they had was tortillas, and they tasted all smoky, I guess because they’d been cooked in an open fire.

 

[azure]

Just took a quick glance at TripAdvisor and there are 6 different kayak "experiences" on Lake Atitlàn alone. These experiences are where you meet up with a guide or group of people for a guided half to multiple day trip. I've done a bunch as a solo traveler, traditional boating in Tanzania, a tour of Tataouine in Tunisia, a tour of rooftop bars in Havana, a photoshoot tour in Cartagena, and so on. Airbnb offers experiences, you can also go on GetYourGuide.com, etc.

Anyway what I'm getting at is Nancy may well have been on a half day kayak excursion with complete strangers. That makes it considerably less shocking that her companion didn't search for her.

 

[mickey2942]

Just took a quick glance at TripAdvisor and there are 6 different kayak "experiences" on Lake Atitlàn alone. These experiences are where you meet up with a guide or group of people for a guided half to multiple day trip. I've done a bunch as a solo traveler, traditional boating in Tanzania, a tour of Tataouine in Tunisia, a tour of rooftop bars in Havana, and so on. Airbnb offers experiences, you can also go on GetYourGuide.com, etc.

Anyway what I'm getting at is Nancy may well have been on a half day kayak excursion with complete strangers. That makes it considerably less shocking that her companion didn't search for her.

Agreed. Nancy may have decided to do something, hang back from the group, or whatever. Not victim blaming, just an awareness of how quickly things can go badly in open water.

 

[acutename]

But if a person does not resurface, they will become unconscious very quickly. If it were me there as witness, I'd paddle around where she went in, calling, looking in every direction at the flat water, trying to see a shape. How long before I would leave the site and go for help? Whenever I was convinced, in total despair, that she was dead. Twenty minutes, say?

No one can stay under water for 20 minutes and then re-emerge and try to save herself.

JMO

I am also just wondering why NN had no fear of the lake- had she swum in it the last time she was on a retreat? The not resurfacing ... would you jump into rough water and leave your kayak with no fear?

 

[waldojabba]

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

We are aware of the statement from the Guatemalan prosecutor's office. That according to a woman Nancy was with, Nancy wanted to swim and drowned.


However, it's difficult for us to accept that explanation for a few reasons:

1. None of the participants we have spoken with saw Nancy get out of her kayak and into the water.
2. We have tried to contact the woman who was with Nancy during the incident many times over the last three weeks but she will not speak with us.
3. The police report we received did not include a direct statement from the woman.

We're vet to have seen an official statement from her or any other retreat participant.


This woman's silence has not only hindered our search efforts, it's made an unbearable three weeks all the more agonizing.

 

[waldojabba]

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

We are aware of the statement from the Guatemalan prosecutor's office. That according to a woman Nancy was with, Nancy wanted to swim and drowned.


However, it's difficult for us to accept that explanation for a few reasons:

1. None of the participants we have spoken with saw Nancy get out of her kayak and into the water.
2. We have tried to contact the woman who was with Nancy during the incident many times over the last three weeks but she will not speak with us.
3. The police report we received did not include a direct statement from the woman.

We're vet to have seen an official statement from her or any other retreat participant.


This woman's silence has not only hindered our search efforts, it's made an unbearable three weeks all the more agonizing.

Also from the same 7 screen helpusfindnancy instagram post update :
“We're grateful for the few retreat participants who have reached out to offer their help and assistance. We recognize how difficult it was for them to share their experiences and appreciate their openness in answering our countless questions to the best of their ability.”

 

[Centaurus]

No. It's not the US, and no resources would be expected or provided.

The embassy might handle communication with the family and perhaps logistics of collecting a body, but that's about it.

Americans aren't special; tourists in developing countries often don't anticipate this.

Thank you, I was genuinely curious. If my daughter went to another country and went missing, would I have someone from a US agency acting as at least a liaison with the other country’s LE or am I all on my own?

 

[RickshawFan]

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

We are aware of the statement from the Guatemalan prosecutor's office. That according to a woman Nancy was with, Nancy wanted to swim and drowned.


However, it's difficult for us to accept that explanation for a few reasons:

1. None of the participants we have spoken with saw Nancy get out of her kayak and into the water.
2. We have tried to contact the woman who was with Nancy during the incident many times over the last three weeks but she will not speak with us.
3. The police report we received did not include a direct statement from the woman.

We're vet to have seen an official statement from her or any other retreat participant.


This woman's silence has not only hindered our search efforts, it's made an unbearable three weeks all the more agonizing.

It’s unfortunate that they want to cast suspicion on the other victIm in this case. IMO they aren’t entitled to an explanation, and there may be a thousand reasons the 2nd victim won’t speak to them, including that she’s been visited with a terrible tragedy and is severely traumatized. It’s also possible she tried to dissuade her companion from jumping in and couldn’t.

I can’t see that other participants at the retreat would have much info on a terrible accident where they weren’t present.

I’m sure local LE did what was customary in the area. They will have followed up on many drownings in that lake in the past. I feel sorry for them, too, since they seem to be expected to perform tasks that are not in their protocol or familiar. It must be so disheartening.

I’m not sure that “official statements” belong in this context, except from authorities, and those seem to have been provided.

IMO Sad, but there’s no amount of “closure” in missing cases. There will always be questions.

I feel so sorry for the victim in this case, the surviving paddler.