Guatemala - Nancy Ng, 29, from Monterey Park CA, missing during Yoga Retreat, 19 Oct 2023

[imstilla.grandma]

They pointed out that elements of Men Frog, Sololá Region Rescue Brigade, Canine Section and Air Section, will carry out a search in Lake Atitlán, they are in charge of continuing the search for the tourist.

Socorristas reanudan búsqueda por agua, tierra y aire, de la turista de EE. UU. que se extravió en el Lago de Atitlán - Guatevision

La joven llegó a Sololá a participar de un retiro de yoga, pero aparentemente subió a kayak y cayó al Lago de Atitlán.

www.guatevision.com

*there‘s a video showing a canine searching through brush

 

[threesevenninefour]

I’m not going to 100% judge the other yogis yet just because we don’t know exactly how the situation went down. Were they all gathered around and told what happened? Was the situation downplayed by the retreat runners? Were they told the police had been called and they didn’t need to stick around? Obviously, it is strange that the woman who went out further with Nancy hasn’t been in touch with the family but also something extremely traumatic possibly occurred in her presence and individuals deal with trauma in so many different ways, ways that often don’t make sense to outsiders to the situation.

 

[10ofRods]

Just took a quick glance at TripAdvisor and there are 6 different kayak "experiences" on Lake Atitlàn alone. These experiences are where you meet up with a guide or group of people for a guided half to multiple day trip. I've done a bunch as a solo traveler, traditional boating in Tanzania, a tour of Tataouine in Tunisia, a tour of rooftop bars in Havana, a photoshoot tour in Cartagena, and so on. Airbnb offers experiences, you can also go on GetYourGuide.com, etc.

Anyway what I'm getting at is Nancy may well have been on a half day kayak excursion with complete strangers. That makes it considerably less shocking that her companion didn't search for her.

She went under the water and didn't resurface. Are you seriously suggesting that the other woman should have gotten out of her kayak in the same circumstances? She very likely would have drowned as well.

The news is stating that 10 members from the Yoga retreat rented kayaks together - so they were not *complete* strangers, but we have no idea how well they knew each other, at all.

Her companion appears to have sent an emergency text or signal somehow, stayed in the area to see if she resurfaced. That signal is likely what enabled searchers to find the kayak on that huge lake.

But if you watched someone dive into a giant lake, and then watched helplessly as they failed to come back up (either immediately or somehow not near enough the kayak to get back on it), when the person finally disappeared - you'd jump in too? I sure hope you wouldn't. Attempting to rescue others (who cannot be rescued, as in this case) is a recipe for a second death.

What they needed were life preservers in the first place - and if each kayak had been equipped with some kind of life preserver attached to the kayak (tossable), that could have helped. I don't think they had either of those things.

If your companion doesn't surface for 5 minutes, it's all over for them - do not get into the water and suffer the same fate, would be my advice to young people on these excursions.

IMO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Now what valid reasons would the other witnesses have to not want to speak to authorities? All they had to do was to back up what the girl was saying? They didn’t see it. They only know second-hand. What if they themselves didn’t believe the girl? But why wouldn’t they? It seems as though they’ve made a pact to stay silent… Why?

 

[10ofRods]

If I were in the same situation, and my plane was scheduled to leave the next day, unless I had lots of money, I'd be on that plane. Most young people book non-cancellable flights and try to go for the cheapest flights. Heck, that's one reason Guatemala is popular with tourists.

I have been stranded in that part of the world (40 years ago) and would absolutely hate to have that happen to anyone, ever. Student and special deals (booked early) are as cheap as $250 from LAX to Guatemala City, RT.

It's true that they'd only be out $250 if they rebooked - but they would also have to pay for lodging. If the Yoga Retreat had offered them a few more days of free stay, they had no guarantee they'd already be booked for another flight.

I don't know, but if I was adjacent to (but had not observed) a drowning or mishap while kayaking, my main goal would be to leave the country. It would be panic-inducing to have to change plans (probably miss work at home and possibly miss connections onward and have to spend money on LAX hotels).

The Yoga Retreat knows how to get hold of them - but they appear to have been nowhere near the site of the accident and know nothing except what the one woman said - that one woman is the only valuable witness, IMO.

On a different topic - here's the Kayak Guatemala page for kayak rental

Kayak or Stand Up Paddleboard Private Rental - Kayak Guatemala

Rent a kayak or stand up paddleboard (SUPs) and explore Lake Atitlan with absolute freedom. We have single, double, and expedition kayaks available..

kayakguatemala.com

Participants are shown without PFD's, but also shown aiding each other with a paddle to get back on a kayak, shown diving from an anchored boat (not from an unanchored kayak) and staying fairly close to shore. However, people who rent their own kayaks simply get a brief orientation to paddling and are free to do what they wish, apparently, once in the kayak.

Sounds like everyone else behaved as shown in the video on that page (last part of the picture set) and stayed close to shore. Whether this particular group had been given guidance on rescuing others is not clear. But the concession itself seems to have at least some emphasis on safety.

It's a tragic accident.

IMO

 

[RickshawFan]

I know this is in all likelihood an accident, <modsnip: not victim friendly> Who wouldn't stay and give all the information you could? I would, even if I missed my flight. And I am certainly not made of enough money for even a local yoga retreat. I'd stay because it's the right thing to do, concerning the life of another human being. Yoga is all about the connection, the 'yoke' to others and the world around us. <modsnip>

MOO

They didn't have anything to do with the accident and weren't witnesses. I would leave because I would feel in the way if I had nothing to do with it.

 

[RickshawFan]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>
The witness was a victim IMO. She is suffering consequences from this event, which she didn't bring upon herself. Her life has been inordinately intruded upon in a quest for information which may, actually, not reflect well on the missing woman and which would be kinder to keep to herself. She might even have argued unsuccessfully for the missing woman not to dive.
She might even now be in treatment from the effects of trauma and generally not available. Who knows how her view of the world might have been changed, her sense of safety, her trust in people, how it feels to get enveloped by clumsy accusations and innuendo.
There's nothing this person could say that would be satisfying IMO.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The witness was a victim IMO. She is suffering consequences from this event, which she didn't bring upon herself. Her life has been inordinately intruded upon in a quest for information which may, actually, not reflect well on the missing woman and which would be kinder to keep to herself. She might even have argued unsuccessfully for the missing woman not to dive. For all we know, she's being treated for what happened to her, and she's generally not available.

My thoughts also about a possible argument. Maybe the group heard an argument and the witnesses left the girls to themselves to work it out. I’m also wondering if the group was scheduled to go back the day the witnesses left and did they go back together. I don’t remember if it was said if the group previously knew each other.

PS. I still hope she will talk to the parents. I also hope she’s been able to speak with her own parents. What are all these other parents thinking?

 

[waldojabba]

My thoughts also about a possible argument. Maybe the group heard an argument and the witnesses left the girls to themselves to work it out. I’m also wondering if the group was scheduled to go back the day the witnesses left and did they go back together. I don’t remember if it was said if the group previously knew each other.

PS. I still hope she will talk to the parents. I also hope she’s been able to speak with her own parents. What are all these other parents thinking?

I think we are all assuming that these were young twenty something kids. We know that Nancy Ng was 29. Most retreats I have been on in the past have a mix of ages. A good friend of mine is in her 50's and is a regular at these retreats. My yoga days were in my 30's. People practice yoga well into their old age. JMO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I think we are all assuming that these were young twenty something kids. We know that Nancy Ng was 29. Most retreats I have been on in the past have a mix of ages. A good friend of mine is in hr 50's and is a regular at these retreats. My yoga days were in my 30's. People practice yoga well into their old age. JMO

True, I was thinking for some reason they were. Thanks for the gentle reminder. Now, that surprises me even more that they wouldn’t offer a Yes she said or No she said or even an IDK. Well then, I think they should be old enough to know due diligence is important. They probably just didn’t want any part of it. Honestly, I might not have gotten involved either unless I knew that I could help in some way. But I would damn sure give a statement. I’d get back to my family. So we just don’t know. Until further info comes out I’m not ready to curse those people.

 

[azure]

She went under the water and didn't resurface. Are you seriously suggesting that the other woman should have gotten out of her kayak in the same circumstances? She very likely would have drowned as well.

The news is stating that 10 members from the Yoga retreat rented kayaks together - so they were not *complete* strangers, but we have no idea how well they knew each other, at all.

Her companion appears to have sent an emergency text or signal somehow, stayed in the area to see if she resurfaced. That signal is likely what enabled searchers to find the kayak on that huge lake.

But if you watched someone dive into a giant lake, and then watched helplessly as they failed to come back up (either immediately or somehow not near enough the kayak to get back on it), when the person finally disappeared - you'd jump in too? I sure hope you wouldn't. Attempting to rescue others (who cannot be rescued, as in this case) is a recipe for a second death.

What they needed were life preservers in the first place - and if each kayak had been equipped with some kind of life preserver attached to the kayak (tossable), that could have helped. I don't think they had either of those things.

If your companion doesn't surface for 5 minutes, it's all over for them - do not get into the water and suffer the same fate, would be my advice to young people on these excursions.

IMO

Not even remotely. There has been a lot of concern on the part of the parents in the news as to why the tour group didn't stay at the resort after Nancy disappeared.

 

[slowpoke]

Not even remotely. There has been a lot of concern on the part of the parents in the news as to why the tour group didn't stay at the resort after Nancy disappeared.

I thought it was more that Nancy’s family wonders why the group did not provide witness reports before leaving Guatemala for home (the US). IMO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

蒙市華女離奇失蹤 最後身影曝光 | 世界新聞網

蒙特利公園市29歲居民伍妤婷（Nancy Ng），10月19日在瓜地馬拉阿蒂特蘭湖(Lake Atitlán)失蹤，至今...

www.worldjournal.com

*I wonder if they’ve found her oar.

 

[RickshawFan]

My thoughts also about a possible argument. Maybe the group heard an argument and the witnesses left the girls to themselves to work it out. I’m also wondering if the group was scheduled to go back the day the witnesses left and did they go back together. I don’t remember if it was said if the group previously knew each other.

PS. I still hope she will talk to the parents. I also hope she’s been able to speak with her own parents. What are all these other parents thinking?

IMO If I'm a young person, I'm not reporting this event to my parents. These evidently are not minors. Maybe it would end up in "that interesting time I went to Guatemala", but I'd not want parental fuss or criticism of my choices. Friends would give me the most support and understanding.

 

[RickshawFan]

Not even remotely. There has been a lot of concern on the part of the parents in the news as to why the tour group didn't stay at the resort after Nancy disappeared.

Those are the drowning person's parents, I take it, and not the parents of everyone else in the group. The media evidently likes that story; it doesn't mean the point is valid or fair. IMO I see no reason for the media to vilify anyone in the whole scenario: it's all very unfortunate, and has the effect of blaming folks who had no role in the event.

 

[RickshawFan]

If I were in the same situation, and my plane was scheduled to leave the next day, unless I had lots of money, I'd be on that plane. Most young people book non-cancellable flights and try to go for the cheapest flights. Heck, that's one reason Guatemala is popular with tourists.

I have been stranded in that part of the world (40 years ago) and would absolutely hate to have that happen to anyone, ever. Student and special deals (booked early) are as cheap as $250 from LAX to Guatemala City, RT.

It's true that they'd only be out $250 if they rebooked - but they would also have to pay for lodging. If the Yoga Retreat had offered them a few more days of free stay, they had no guarantee they'd already be booked for another flight.

I don't know, but if I was adjacent to (but had not observed) a drowning or mishap while kayaking, my main goal would be to leave the country. It would be panic-inducing to have to change plans (probably miss work at home and possibly miss connections onward and have to spend money on LAX hotels).

The Yoga Retreat knows how to get hold of them - but they appear to have been nowhere near the site of the accident and know nothing except what the one woman said - that one woman is the only valuable witness, IMO.

On a different topic - here's the Kayak Guatemala page for kayak rental

Kayak or Stand Up Paddleboard Private Rental - Kayak Guatemala

Rent a kayak or stand up paddleboard (SUPs) and explore Lake Atitlan with absolute freedom. We have single, double, and expedition kayaks available..

kayakguatemala.com

Participants are shown without PFD's, but also shown aiding each other with a paddle to get back on a kayak, shown diving from an anchored boat (not from an unanchored kayak) and staying fairly close to shore. However, people who rent their own kayaks simply get a brief orientation to paddling and are free to do what they wish, apparently, once in the kayak.

Sounds like everyone else behaved as shown in the video on that page (last part of the picture set) and stayed close to shore. Whether this particular group had been given guidance on rescuing others is not clear. But the concession itself seems to have at least some emphasis on safety.

It's a tragic accident.

IMO

IMO not suiting up participants in PFD's is a major miss. They should also have been sent with two paddles: that's a big lake, and if you drop one, you're toast. An old, old, used paddle works great for an emergency spare, and a kayak rental company probably has plenty. I wonder if they were carrying bilge pumps or scoopers?

****
I'm not sure what a "statement" would be if you saw nothing and knew nothing, which seems to be the case with 8 participants in the kayak adventure.

 

[Puzzles8]

Is it known what time the kayaking trip started or ended?

I have been searching around about kayak tours on Lake Atitlan. On one site I found an interesting warning:

"There are a variety of places to rent kayaks around the lake, depending on what area you would like to explore. It is important to note that the lake gets quite choppy most afternoons (from around 1:00pm) due to a phenomenon called ‘Xocomil’ in the local languages. I highly recommend getting an early start (by 8:00am or 9:00am) while the lake is still glassy calm!"

Kayaking on Lake Atitlan | Award Winning Airbnb Lake Atitlan

Kayaking on Lake Atitlan. There are a variety of places to rent kayaks, find out more when staying at our luxury vacation rental.

www.lacasacolibri.net

There is no such warning that I can find on Kayak Guatatemala's site.

FAQs - Kayak Guatemala

kayakguatemala.com

I wonder if she unknowingly stayed out on the lake longer than it was safe to.

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

Not even remotely. There has been a lot of concern on the part of the parents in the news as to why the tour group didn't stay at the resort after Nancy disappeared.

Again - why would they? 8 are not even witnesses. They have jobs and lives - and expenses - to cover.

Why would the tour group stay? I'm just not getting that part. The witness saw her go under, alerted authorities through some kind of signal, paddled back to the dock, let everyone else know what happened (no one else saw it happen). Everyone is traumatized, but especially the witness (who I believe did stay - or at least I think so).

I understand the grief of the parents, but when a person witnesses a deadly car crash (something that happens at least once every few years in my life - and I pass by -without witnessing- deadly car crashes at least 3-4 times a year), they are not expected to contact the parents of the victims. And I, personally, would not want strangers contacting me in my own grief. Cards and letters are usually welcome, but direct contact? Many people can't handle it and it doesn't give them the privacy and silence they need to truly grieve.

So, the Yoga Retreat needs to mediate these realities. They should provide a central email address where all the other retreat participants can send a message of condolence (with a return email) to the parents - so that the parents reach out.

Do we know if the parents flew to Guatemala? It would seem to me that if the parents wanted to speak to the other retreat members - and the survivor of the longer distance kayak voyage - then, the other participants would have had to wait a couple of days to meet up with them. I surely do hope the Yoga retreat is providing the parents with good accommodations while there (or is working with local authorities to do this).

IMO. In case the Guatemala Kayak concession or the Yoga Retreat runners are reading. Hopefully, there are a variety of resources available for NN's parents. Professional grief counselors would a good first step.

 

[ifindedout]

There is no such warning that I can find on Kayak Guatatemala's site.

FAQs - Kayak Guatemala

kayakguatemala.com

RSBM
I noticed there is a duplicate FAQ, ironically meteorological: "What is the weather like in Lake Atitlan?" Each has identical content.

 

[slowpoke]

I believe a poster was asking somewhere upthread what time of day Nancy and her group went out on the lake. In the LA Times article*, it said she was seen going out kayaking at 10:30am.

The article also says the family last heard from her in a family group chat on Oct 14 to wish her brother a happy birthday. She also mentioned she landed in Guatemala, and would be unplugged from her phone for the next few days, but all was well.

A bit about her personality:
Nancy is the talkative, bubbly one of the family. The sister said endearingly that Nancy is known for always running late for things because she‘s so friendly and talks so much.

Nancy traveled with this same US yoga retreat she went with last year. It was a last-minute decision to go again this year.

===
* I hope the article can be viewed without a paywall. I have no subscription yet was able to see it. In case not, I am only paraphrasing (not copy & pasting) some of what was in the article, per ToS.