Gun Control Debate #4

[bluesneakers]

Does anyone hear think that big $$lawsuits$$ will create a change in gun laws? I’m hearing there’s some lawsuits beginning against the Broward School system & also the FBI.....

Maybe, but I think they would have to be really big. Like bigger than anything we saw in the tobacco wars.

Although maybe in conjunction with everything else they wouldn't have to be as big. Interesting to think about.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Moms Demand Action Against Gun Reform in Nebraska

http://www.klkntv.com/story/37672511/moms-demand-action-against-gun-reform-in-nebraska

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

State Senate, Assembly pass new gun control legislation

http://wivb.com/2018/03/07/state-senate-assembly-pass-new-gun-control-legislation/

From the link (they’re not yet law, but are progressing through the state legislature):

On Tuesday, the New York State Assembly passed a package of five bills that have to do with gun control. The bills would ban bump stocks, expand background checks and take away guns from those who are determined by a court to be a threat to others or themselves.

 

[Jennifer17]

State Senate, Assembly pass new gun control legislation

http://wivb.com/2018/03/07/state-senate-assembly-pass-new-gun-control-legislation/

From the link (they’re not yet law, but are progressing through the state legislature):

On Tuesday, the New York State Assembly passed a package of five bills that have to do with gun control. The bills would ban bump stocks, expand background checks and take away guns from those who are determined by a court to be a threat to others or themselves.

BBM. That doesn't seem like much to me. How long would it take for the court to decide that.

 

[bluesneakers]

BBM. That doesn't seem like much to me. How long would it take for the court to decide that.

I'm curious too. I think fairly quickly based on this, but I haven't looked up the actual bills yet.

The Assembly measures would keep firearms out of the hands of people deemed by courts to be a danger to themselves or others, set a 10-day waiting period for delivery of a gun to a person who hasn’t cleared a background check instead of the current three-day period, and prevent people convicted of domestic violence from buying a firearm.

https://www.pressconnects.com/story...y-assembly-passes-gun-control-bills/32671097/

Among the bills approved by the Assembly was legislation that would allow judges to issue so-called Extreme Risk Protection Orders to block individuals considered likely to harm themselves or others from possessing or purchasing guns.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...embly-oks-gun-control-bills-article-1.3859764

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I have an idea. Lets get rid of the First Amendment and outlaw the NRA from disseminating any pro gun information to the people of the United States.

Then we can work on repealing the Second Amendment and enact any kind of gun control desired. JMO

 

[rsd1200]

Rude but okay. I’m just saying as someone who has had very dark thoughts in the past, not having access to a gun did not change those thoughts. A gun wasn’t ever a consideration. So my “JMO” is more of just my EXPERIENCE.

I'm sorry bears. I've been there, and I have firearms in the home, but didn't want to leave the mess for my family... My grandchild's grandmother had to do that when her son took his life, so...

I'm very glad you're still here bears. Life gets hard sometimes, but, as a good friend used to say, it's permanent solution to what is usually a temporary problem.

You are right though, if folks are determined, they'll use what is naturally around them. Look at South Korea. Super strict gun laws but, they use chemicals.

The figures, which reflect data from 2015, show that Korea has 28.4 suicides per 100,000 population, the fourth-highest among the 183 countries surveyed. That is almost double the rate of 14.8 suicides per 100,000 in 2000. Numbers soared in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis to 34.1 in 2010. (1)

Japan’s suicide rate (the number of suicides per 100,000 people) stood at 19.5 as of 2014. Children commit suicide between the ages of 10-19 on Sept. 1, each year, because it is the first day back to school. Japan only allows shotguns and air rifles, no handguns. The shotguns and air rifles are hard to acquire. (2)

Hanging, suffocation, and jumping from a building are the top three ways to commit suicide in Japan.


(1) http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2017/05/19/2017051900779.html

(2) Japan Suicide https://www.humanium.org/en/child-suicide-in-japan-the-leading-cause-of-death-in-children/
(2) Japan's gun laws: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38365729

 

[bluesneakers]

I have an idea. Lets get rid of the First Amendment and outlaw the NRA from disseminating any pro gun information to the people of the United States.

Then we can work on repealing the Second Amendment and enact any kind of gun control desired. JMO

Why would you want to get rid of the First Amendment? Do you think that's the only way to get some control over the NRA?

 

[rsd1200]

You’d be hard pressed to get me to do a survey or discuss my darkest days for the purpose of a study. It’s not something I enjoy talking about, and I can imagine many others feel the same as myself. I regret sharing my experience with you all since you just want to shove “facts” and “statistics” in my face when I can tell you that those statistics may not be accurate.

I don't like to discuss it much either. S/o and I don't discuss it much. He doesn't often speak of his father's successful attempt 40+ years ago. There's many more friends who were successful. One of whom deliberately killed himself through drinking. It was sad to watch a handsome, successful, executive, go from a nice home to living in a shed, behind a fella's home (he'd let him sleep on the couch when it was cold but he rarely accepted). I still miss him.

 

[bears10]

I'm sorry bears. I've been there, and I have firearms in the home, but didn't want to leave the mess for my family... My grandchild's grandmother had to do that when her son took his life, so...

I'm very glad you're still here bears. Life gets hard sometimes, but, as a good friend used to say, it's permanent solution to what is usually a temporary problem.

You are right though, if folks are determined, they'll use what is naturally around them. Look at South Korea. Super strict gun laws but, they use chemicals.

The figures, which reflect data from 2015, show that Korea has 28.4 suicides per 100,000 population, the fourth-highest among the 183 countries surveyed. That is almost double the rate of 14.8 suicides per 100,000 in 2000. Numbers soared in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis to 34.1 in 2010. (1)

Japan’s suicide rate (the number of suicides per 100,000 people) stood at 19.5 as of 2014. Children commit suicide between the ages of 10-19 on Sept. 1, each year, because it is the first day back to school. Japan only allows shotguns and air rifles, no handguns. The shotguns and air rifles are hard to acquire. (2)

Hanging, suffocation, and jumping from a building are the top three ways to commit suicide in Japan.


(1) http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2017/05/19/2017051900779.html

(2) Japan Suicide https://www.humanium.org/en/child-suicide-in-japan-the-leading-cause-of-death-in-children/
(2) Japan's gun laws: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38365729

I’m sorry you’ve been in a dark place as well. It isn’t easy. But life is so precious and amazing, and once I pulled through, I learned to cherish all of the little things. It is so true that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary issue. Unfortunately sometimes it’s hard to grasp that concept when you’re in turmoil. I am glad you are here with us today too, rsd.

Frankly, I’m disgusted with some of the posts here regarding suicide, especially in regards to myself sharing a personal experience only to be met with “you need to learn a thing or two about suicide” or whatever was said to me. I don’t have the heart right now to dive into suicide “statistics”, so thanks for posting. And just a reminder to others. Many people who have overcome suicidal thoughts or attempts don’t openly discuss it to people collecting statistics.

 

[bears10]

I don't like to discuss it much either. S/o and I don't discuss it much. He doesn't often speak of his father's successful attempt 40+ years ago. There's many more friends who were successful. One of whom deliberately killed himself through drinking. It was sad to watch a handsome, successful, executive, go from a nice home to living in a shed, behind a fella's home (he'd let him sleep on the couch when it was cold but he rarely accepted). I still miss him.

I’m very sorry for your losses. I completely understand why you and SO don’t discuss it much. It isn’t exactly a pleasant bedtime story. But it’s life. Hugs.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

BBM. That doesn't seem like much to me. How long would it take for the court to decide that.

Excellent question. I’m not sure of how the NY legislature works. If there are no changes, it could be pretty quick. If they haggle and change stuff, it could fail. Or a version could be passed, then it goes to the other (senate/house) for the same process. If it’s not changed there and passes, then it goes to the governor to sign. If it changes, then it goes back for approval to the first branch.

Someone PLEASE correct me if I’m wrong!! I’m in the middle of laundry, dog feeding, dinner-making and cleaning.

ETA: linkage! This explains it.

http://www.bcnys.org/inside/sb/billlaw.htm

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I don't like to discuss it much either. S/o and I don't discuss it much. He doesn't often speak of his father's successful attempt 40+ years ago. There's many more friends who were successful. One of whom deliberately killed himself through drinking. It was sad to watch a handsome, successful, executive, go from a nice home to living in a shed, behind a fella's home (he'd let him sleep on the couch when it was cold but he rarely accepted). I still miss him.

I’m so sorry for your losses, rsd. Talking about it gets really heavy sometimes. It’s heavy to carry around, too, ime.

I keep typing and then deleting, wanting to share similar experiences, but it’s just too difficult to pull the words outta me. A friend drank himself to death recently. It was a 25-plus-year decline. His sister completed suicide by firearm on Father’s Day back when we all went to high school together. That’s really all I’m able to say about it. It’s so tremendously sad.

Americans need to care more about each other. Our mental health care system is inaccessible and unaffordable and subpar in so many ways.

Gun reforms also need to happen, imo, which is part of why I'm here in this thread. I don't mean anyone any disrespect at all. This is my opinion, spoken from my experience only.

:heartbeat:

 

[bears10]

Deleting bc it’s pointless

 

[rsd1200]

I’m sorry you’ve been in a dark place as well. It isn’t easy. But life is so precious and amazing, and once I pulled through, I learned to cherish all of the little things. It is so true that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary issue. Unfortunately sometimes it’s hard to grasp that concept when you’re in turmoil. I am glad you are here with us today too, rsd.

Frankly, I’m disgusted with some of the posts here regarding suicide, especially in regards to myself sharing a personal experience only to be met with “you need to learn a thing or two about suicide” or whatever was said to me. I don’t have the heart right now to dive into suicide “statistics”, so thanks for posting. And just a reminder to others. Many people who have overcome suicidal thoughts or attempts don’t openly discuss it to people collecting statistics.

Thanks, I'm glad I'm here too. I still have down days but, but not those kind, I made the journey back to loving life, and wanting to hang around, again. You are right, most don't discuss it (just as these kids probably never talked about their turmoil, to their families). Other than my spouse, this forum, is the only other place I've disclosed it. My spouse couldn't hardly miss it, as he walked in on my contemplation. He had no words.

 

[rosemadderlake]

You’d be hard pressed to get me to do a survey or discuss my darkest days for the purpose of a study. It’s not something I enjoy talking about, and I can imagine many others feel the same as myself. I regret sharing my experience with you all since you just want to shove “facts” and “statistics” in my face when I can tell you that those statistics may not be accurate.

Bbm: I agree. Suicides in my family are not listed as such on the death certificate. Of all the OD's in this country, are they listed as OD or suicide?

Of the CDC charts I have seen I couldn't decern a breakout of why Wyoming topped the list... Was this only by gun which is an obvious form? How deaths are certified may or may not include intention unless 100% certain? Slitting ones wrists is one obvious form. Regarding ODs, getting shot by a cop (suicide by cop) falling or jumping, impaling, drowning... What is accidental or was it on purpose?

Of the two others I knew, one left detailed love notes, the other did not.

And I also agree, if someone wants to, they will find a way. So, the science is, I want to say, subjective. Subjective as the human experience. Because there are paradoxes of mysteries like the Scandinavian countries, among the happiest, with high suicide rates. But that is strictly JMO.

 

[bears10]

Bbm: I agree. Suicides in my family are not listed as such on the death certificate. Of all the OD's in this country, are they listed as OD or suicide?

Of the CDC charts I have seen I couldn't decern a breakout of why Wyoming topped the list... Was this only by gun which is an obvious form? How deaths are certified may or may not include intention unless 100% certain? Slitting ones wrists is one obvious form. Regarding ODs, getting shot by a cop (suicide by cop) falling or jumping, impaling, drowning... What is accidental or what is on purpose?

Of the two others I knew, one left detailed love notes, the other did not.

And I also agree, if someone wants to, they will find a way. So, the science is, I want to say, subjective. Subjective as the human experience. Because there are paradoxes of mysteries like the Scandinavian countries, among the happiest, with high suicide rates. But that is strictly JMO.

I’m only speaking on suicide by OD. But I think that many actual suicides are officially ruled as accidental overdoses. Which would throw off the Harvard statistics for sure. I speak from unfortunate experience of more than one loved one. Just my *experience*

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Thank you to all of the posters who have entrusted us with their powerful, true stories. Their honesty is profound and resonating.

And a nod to the replyers here that have shown grace and empathy.

 

[bears10]

Thank you to all of the posters who have entrusted us with their powerful, true stories. Their honesty is profound and resonating.

And a nod to the replyers here that have shown grace and empathy.

Thank you to the posters who have been supportive and understanding ❤️

 

[rsd1200]

I’m so sorry for your losses, rsd. Talking about it gets really heavy sometimes. It’s heavy to carry around, too, ime.

I keep typing and then deleting, wanting to share similar experiences, but it’s just too difficult to pull the words outta me. A friend drank himself to death recently. It was a 25-plus-year decline. His sister completed suicide by firearm on Father’s Day back when we all went to high school together. That’s really all I’m able to say about it. It’s so tremendously sad.

Gun reforms needs to happen.

Americans also need to care more about each other. Our mental health care system is inaccessible and unaffordable and subpar in so many ways.

I'm so sorry about the loss of your friend, and his sister. It's so hard to lose a friend and I can't imagine the parents' grief. My friend's decline was over a period of years too. It's hard to come up with words to describe how one feels about losing someone anyway, but that way, leaves so many unanswered questions. it is different than a heart attack or car accident. We can explain those and understand to some degree.