Gun Control Debate #4

[Jennifer17]

Suicide leaves terrible guilt behind for the survivors who always feel that they should have done more to prevent it. It often tears marriages apart when a child suicides. If you have a child die from an accident or illness, people are far more ready to give sympathy and support, but suicide remains an uncomfortable subject for many people.

 

[flourish]

Suicide leaves terrible guilt behind for the survivors who always feel that they should have done more to prevent it. It often tears marriages apart when a child suicides. If you have a child die from an accident or illness, people are far more ready to give sympathy and support, but suicide remains an uncomfortable subject for many people.

So true. My teenaged brother completed suicide via firearm when I was just little, but I'm one of those people who remembers stuff from very early in life, so I remember how it impacted my parents and numerous other siblings (all older) over time for the last several decades... Just the question, "how many siblings do you have?" is difficult for me still, and it was a common question in my area growing up, as the amount of children a family has holds some specific meanings in the local culture. My poor mother not only lost her son that way, but previously her own brother, as well.

I know some attempts made by a younger relative of mine have been kept from a couple of older generation family members, because the parents of the youngster just cannot take the judgemental comments which are bound to come out of one of their mouths.

Idk if lack of firearm availability would have made a difference in either of those completed cases, as their first (known) attempts were successful.

 

[bluesneakers]

Suicide leaves terrible guilt behind for the survivors who always feel that they should have done more to prevent it. It often tears marriages apart when a child suicides. If you have a child die from an accident or illness, people are far more ready to give sympathy and support, but suicide remains an uncomfortable subject for many people.

This is sad and true. I read something recently by a mother whose son has bipolar disorder - she said she'd witnessed plenty of time when children are diagnosed with a physical illness like cancer or diabetes, there are casseroles and GFMs and offers of practical help, but when a child is diagnosed with a mental illness people just say "I'm sorry" and make sad faces. I think people mean well, but there is so much stigma and misunderstanding, and even fear, they just don't know what to do.

 

[Jennifer17]

Excellent question. I’m not sure of how the NY legislature works. If there are no changes, it could be pretty quick. If they haggle and change stuff, it could fail. Or a version could be passed, then it goes to the other (senate/house) for the same process. If it’s not changed there and passes, then it goes to the governor to sign. If it changes, then it goes back for approval to the first branch.

Someone PLEASE correct me if I’m wrong!! I’m in the middle of laundry, dog feeding, dinner-making and cleaning.

ETA: linkage! This explains it.

http://www.bcnys.org/inside/sb/billlaw.htm

I meant how long would it take a judge to order that someone was deemed a threat to himself or others and the firearms confiscated? Would it be an emergency thing?

 

[rsd1200]

So true. My teenaged brother completed suicide via firearm when I was just little, but I'm one of those people who remembers stuff from very early in life, so I remember how it impacted my parents and numerous other siblings (all older) over time for the last several decades... Just the question, "how many siblings do you have?" is difficult for me still, and it was a common question in my area growing up, as the amount of children a family has holds some specific meanings in the local culture. My poor mother not only lost her son that way, but previously her own brother, as well.

I know some attempts made by a younger relative of mine have been kept from a couple of older generation family members, because the parents of the youngster just cannot take the judgemental comments which are bound to come out of one of their mouths.

Idk if lack of firearm availability would have made a difference in either of those completed cases, as their first (known) attempts were successful.

I'm sorry for your loss. It's far more common that anyone would like to admit. Many times, I know, years back, it would be listed accidental. I've wondered about someone recently, who, it was said, accidentally fell off of a bridge. The family likely would not have accepted suicide at all.

 

[rsd1200]

Warning Signs of Suicide

People who are wrestling with thoughts of suicide give off indicators. Here are a few things to watch for, and if you see them, ask if help is needed immediately.

• Talking to others or posting on social media about suicide, about wanting to die or about feeling hopeless or trapped or a burden to others.
• Looking for ways to die by suicide — gathering medication, sharp objects, firearms, or looking online for methods.
• Expressing unbearable emotional pain.
• Visiting or calling people to "say good-bye."
• Giving away prized possessions.
• Suddenly becoming calm or cheerful after a long period of depression

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...sing-school-and-internet-may-blame/356539001/

 

[Jennifer17]

Warning Signs of Suicide

People who are wrestling with thoughts of suicide give off indicators. Here are a few things to watch for, and if you see them, ask if help is needed immediately.

• Talking to others or posting on social media about suicide, about wanting to die or about feeling hopeless or trapped or a burden to others.
• Looking for ways to die by suicide — gathering medication, sharp objects, firearms, or looking online for methods.
• Expressing unbearable emotional pain.
• Visiting or calling people to "say good-bye."
• Giving away prized possessions.
• Suddenly becoming calm or cheerful after a long period of depression

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...sing-school-and-internet-may-blame/356539001/

I would say that there are far greater numbers of people who do not exhibit those signs and go on to suicide or attempt it. In my experience, when people are in that dark of a place, they cannot talk about it. Those signs seem like more of a cry for help to me.

 

[KaaBoom]

If someone is determined to end their life, they will find a way. JMO and JME

At least without a gun they are unlikely to do it by committing murder-suicide.

 

[Jennifer17]

At least without a gun they are unlikely to do it by committing murder-suicide.

My next door neighbour shot and killed his estranged wife and made a feeble attempt at killing himself by shooting himself in the side. He shot her in the head, but managed to avoid his own head. He only had a gun because he was a member of the police force. He went to her home and killed her when he was on duty and in uniform, in front of his two teenage daughters. Threatened them too.

 

[rsd1200]

I would say that there are far greater numbers of people who do not exhibit those signs and go on to suicide or attempt it. In my experience, when people are in that dark of a place, they cannot talk about it. Those signs seem like more of a cry for help to me.

My friend, left her 10 y/o a little box filled with a note and small items, before she walked into a room filled with family, and put a gun in her mouth. Thankfully he was not there. It has affected him his entire life though.

My mother's friend was talking about her son giving things away to family members, especially a much loved pet, two weeks later, he was dead.

My friend that drank himself to death, got to a point that he could tilt his head back and pour Jack, down his throat, like it was a drain. When he passed, he had nothing, except a few changes of clothes and suit he wore to church each Sunday.

I talked about wanting to die , felt hopeless, and trapped, and was emotionally devastated ( I literally had the firearm in my lap). I could not help my child and wanted the pain to end. No one knew just how despondent that I was.

My husband's father spoke of becoming a burden, and the unbearable pain.

That's just a few of them.

I live in Central Appalachia, Appalachia has a suicide rate that is 17 percent higher than the national average. In central Appalachia, the suicide rate is 31 percent higher than the national average.

 

[Footwarrior]

The ATF approved bump stocks, because they did not mechanically change the firearm. There wasn't a designated spot for them so they had no ground to not allow them at the time. I've been around firearms for years and have owned one since I was around 19, or so, and so has my spouse (and that's been a long time ago). We'd never heard of them until the Vegas shooting. We asked our dealer about them, how they worked and such, and he said he put one on the shelf, when they came out, but no one was interested , until AFTER the Vegas shooting. Then everyone got curious. Most folks I know wouldn't have one b/c, they're not good for your firearm, is what we've been told, of course, if you're the Vegas shooter, you'er not worried about that.

There are also these trigger mods, that have been approved. This link, explains why we have the Tac Con 3-MR, drop-in, rapid fire trigger, for AR-15s, available to the public. The included video shows the firearm in standard fire mode, and in 3rd mode (which is still not considered automatic).

New firm Tactical Fire Control, Inc., or just Tac-Con for short, has developed a very interesting new trigger that lets people shoot AR rifle very, very fast.

http://www.guns.com/2013/11/20/tac-con-3mr-rapid-fire-non-nfa-trigger-ars-video/

Semi w/a Tac Con 3MR trigger.
https://youtu.be/eQtCTUq4Y_I

The ATF ruled that bump stocks don't violate the NFA. The NFA defined an illegal modification device as one that shoots more than one round for each pull of the trigger. Bump stocks and trigger cranks work by pulling the trigger faster so they were not technically illegal even if the clearly violate the intent of the NFA. Congress could fix this simply by changing the law to cover devices that work like bump stocks.

That hasn't happened because right now Congress only pays attention to the NRA on gun issues. The rest of America only gets thoughts and prayers.

Spree killers tend to follow what previous spree killers have done. Most school shooters follow the pattern set by the Columbine killers. It's only a matter of time before someone follows what was done in Las Vegas. Opening fire on a crowd using multiple weapons fitted with bump stocks and large capacity magazines.

 

[rsd1200]

The ATF ruled that bump stocks don't violate the NFA. The NFA defined an illegal modification device as one that shoots more than one round for each pull of the trigger. Bump stocks and trigger cranks work by pulling the trigger faster so they were not technically illegal even if the clearly violate the intent of the NFA. Congress could fix this simply by changing the law to cover devices that work like bump stocks.

That hasn't happened because right now Congress only pays attention to the NRA on gun issues. The rest of America only gets thoughts and prayers.

Spree killers tend to follow what previous spree killers have done. Most school shooters follow the pattern set by the Columbine killers. It's only a matter of time before someone follows what was done in Las Vegas. Opening fire on a crowd using multiple weapons fitted with bump stocks and large capacity magazines.

"The stock has no automatically functioning mechanical parts or springs and performs no automatic mechanical function when installed," John Spencer, the chief of the ATF's Firearms Technology Branch, wrote to Slide Fire in a 2010 letter. "We find that the "bump-stock" is a firearm part and is not regulated as a firearm under Gun Control Act [GCA] or the National Firearms Act [NFA]."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/can-th...cks-the-device-used-by-the-las-vegas-shooter/

 

[Jennifer17]

"The stock has no automatically functioning mechanical parts or springs and performs no automatic mechanical function when installed," John Spencer, the chief of the ATF's Firearms Technology Branch, wrote to Slide Fire in a 2010 letter. "We find that the "bump-stock" is a firearm part and is not regulated as a firearm under Gun Control Act [GCA] or the National Firearms Act [NFA]."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/can-th...cks-the-device-used-by-the-las-vegas-shooter/

That to me is saying 'Guns don't kill people'.

 

[rsd1200]

That to me is saying 'Guns don't kill people'.

It wasn't my determination. It's the ATFs. The designer made it, and the way it is made, it does not change the mechanical parts of the firearm. There was no law against them or section for them b/c they're new. No one even bought them til after the Vegas shooting. It's now being reviewed. They should also be reviewing drop in triggers.

 

[Jennifer17]

It wasn't my determination. It's the ATFs. The designer made it, and the way it is made, it does not change the mechanical parts of the firearm. There was no law against them or section for them b/c they're new. No one even bought them til after the Vegas shooting. It's now being reviewed. They should also be reviewing drop in triggers.

I wasn't saying you were saying that. I was trying to make the point that they are all just accessories to kill more people and it is brushed off as saying that they are not inherently dangerous by themselves, but when added to other things, they are.

 

[rsd1200]

[FONT=&quot]The Department of Justice (DOJ) and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) have initiated a rule review that will likely lead to banning bump stocks within a year.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Bump stocks can modify some semi-auto rifles like the AR-15 to allow it to fire in rapid succession. Also known by the brand name Slide Fire, they use the recoil effect of semiautomatic rifle fire to "bump" the gun's trigger back into the trigger finger, allowing the weapon to discharge repeatedly.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Bump stocks were approved for sale in 2010 by the ATF's Firearms Technology Branch. The bureau determined that device "performs no automatic mechanical function when installed" and the shooter must still apply "constant" forward and rearward pressure to a gun equipped with one. Designating the device as a "firearm part," the bureau ruled they need not be regulated under federal gun laws.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“A bump stock — it should be banned, it should be disallowed, it should be wiped off the face of the earth," Clark County District Attorney Wolfson told CNN’s David Shortell.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The ATF has submitted an Advanced Notice of Proposed Rulemaking to the Office of Management and Budget. The process, which will require public hearings, generally takes eight months to a year to complete.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/gun-news-week-atf-begins-rule-making-process-for-federal-bump-stock-ban
[/FONT]

 

[human]

I have an idea. Lets get rid of the First Amendment and outlaw the NRA from disseminating any pro gun information to the people of the United States.

Then we can work on repealing the Second Amendment and enact any kind of gun control desired. JMO

I like that idea! Something needs to be done about the ridiculous BS that the NRA spouts.

Maybe people coming to their senses will make it so we don’t have to get so desperate, though.. Maybe the NRA will become as socially unacceptable as smoking is.

 

[rsd1200]

I wasn't saying you were saying that. I was trying to make the point that they are all just accessories to kill more people and it is brushed off as saying that they are not inherently dangerous by themselves, but when added to other things, they are.

When it was submitted, it was not considered to be a mechanical change to the firearm. It's just a plastic part that fits on the stock. No one even knew much about them til after Vegas. I'd never even heard of them and I live in Guntucky.

 

[Jennifer17]

I am not sure what the big rush to ban bump stocks is about. To my knowledge, they were only used in one mass shooting. Why have there been no other bans on weapons used in other mass shootings, none of which used bump stocks? Seems piecemeal to me. A distraction from the main problem.

 

[CARIIS]

heading in the right direction if the gun toting FL can pass some stuff lots of other places can to !!

MSNBC had a graphic there has actually been a lot of stuff happening nationwide

hats off to the kids !

Lyft is providing transportation to march in a couple of weeks ~

[h=1]Lyft Offers Free Rides to March for Our Lives Attendees[/h]
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loc...-March-for-Our-Lives-Attendees-476048783.html

Be sure to have your kids get this out all over internet land!!!

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