Gun Control Debate #4

[Jennifer17]

"And still no more mass shootings. If they use them, they kill each other. It is also only tactical response teams who are armed with those guns.


Can you tell me where all these automatic guns are being used to commit murders in Australia? I think that our last murder by gun was about four weeks ago. A bikie gang member who had been released from jail on parole, for murdering a member of another bikie gang.


If it is the same one that I read it was written by an ex Australian Ambassador to the US, but I can't remember his name now. It was about the gun culture in the US.




Must have been a different one."

---
SO not helpful... And so much more.
Bah. Just interested in bringing USA down... Who needs this crap? Imo

https://psmag.com/news/australia-ambassador-gun-laws

 

[bluesneakers]

A town where? Not far from moon, where?

Perhaps you didn't post a link because it is political?

Still I want to know what YOU think???

I posted a link for you. It's close to Pittsburgh, but if DJT was speaking I'm not sure why the location matters so much?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...h-penalty-drug-dealers-count-trump/414535002/

 

[bluesneakers]

https://psmag.com/news/australia-ambassador-gun-laws

He says they won't work, but does he offer a solution that might?

To me what happened in Australia proves the problem can be addressed and improved. Maybe the American solution won't be exactly the same, but is there something there we can learn from? People just want to say nope, it won't work, and then we're back to we're helpless and the gun lobby wins and more people die.

 

[Jennifer17]

He says they won't work, but does he offer a solution that might?

To me what happened in Australia proves the problem can be addressed and improved. Maybe the American solution won't be exactly the same, but is there something there we can learn from? People just want to say nope, it won't work, and then we're back to we're helpless and the gun lobby wins and more people die.

Joe is not a solutions man. When talking about he affordability of homes, he told people to get higher paying jobs and when asked about high fuel prices he said 'poor people don't drive far'.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

How about liquor store owners, when they sell to someone, who wipes out an entire family after said store's, customer, downs that 1/2 pint on the way home?

There are laws restricting liquor sales to intoxicated people. Here’s a pamphlet (downloadable pdf) outlining Texas law: https://www.tabc.state.tx.us/publications/brochures/Sell_Serve_responsibly.pdf

If someone’s illegally downing a pint in their car while driving, though ... not so sure the retailer would be liable.

 

[rsd1200]

Nationalism doesn't look good on anyone. JMO

There's a difference in nationalism and patriotism.

While patriotism fundamentally means affection for one's country and willingness to defend it, nationalism is a more extreme, unforgiving form of allegiance to one's country. As opposed to patriotism, which involves social conditioning and personal opinion, nationalism involves national identity and the belief that one's nation and/or its government is supreme.

Love for one's country is imperative and necessary, but if this love becomes more important than Constitutional values or democratic ideals, it is misplaced.



https://www.huffingtonpost.in/sudhanva-d-shetty/patriotism-nationalism-a-_b_9354822.html

 

[rsd1200]

There are laws restricting liquor sales to intoxicated people. Here’s a pamphlet (downloadable pdf) outlining Texas law: https://www.tabc.state.tx.us/publications/brochures/Sell_Serve_responsibly.pdf

If someone’s illegally downing a pint in their car while driving, though ... not so sure the retailer would be liable.

I was just comparing. I said, drank the 1/2 pint, after purchase, going down the highway. Not purchasing it while intoxicated. One o my oldest friends, is, actually, a liquor store owner. There is not, nor will there ever be, any liability, to the store owner, unless they sell to underage. The state was doing a check on the stores, and had undercovers come in with false i.d.s, and her clerk accepted it, and her store was fined. She fired her employee.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Stores likely to face more lawsuits over ban on under-21 gun sales

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...e-more-lawsuits-over-ban-under-21-gun-n854996

"I am confident that Walmart and Dick's are violating Oregon's discrimination in public accommodations laws," said Max Whittington, the lawyer who filed the challenges in that state.

"The wording of the statute only has one reasonable interpretation, and that is you cannot discriminate against 18-20 year olds in offering the sale of goods which they're legally allowed to purchase, be they rifles, or any other legal product," he said.

Eugene Volokh, a law professor at UCLA said the case "seems open and shut for the plaintiff and against Dick's."

 

[bluesneakers]

There's a difference in nationalism and patriotism.

While patriotism fundamentally means affection for one's country and willingness to defend it, nationalism is a more extreme, unforgiving form of allegiance to one's country. As opposed to patriotism, which involves social conditioning and personal opinion, nationalism involves national identity and the belief that one's nation and/or its government is supreme.

Love for one's country is imperative and necessary, but if this love becomes more important than Constitutional values or democratic ideals, it is misplaced.



https://www.huffingtonpost.in/sudhanva-d-shetty/patriotism-nationalism-a-_b_9354822.html

So are you saying nationalism is cool, or suggesting I don't know what the word means?

 

[rsd1200]

So are you saying nationalism is cool, or suggesting I don't know what the word means?

I'm putting out the definitions because some folks use them interchangeably. I didn't say you didn't know. I was just jumping off your post, to denote the difference for those who do use it interchangeably, as you included no definition. If anything my post and included article refers that affection for one's country and willingness to defend it is not something bad. That's patriotism. Something I embrace.

 

[bluesneakers]

I'm putting out the definitions because some folks use them interchangeably. I didn't say you didn't know. I was just jumping off your post, to denote the difference for those who do use it interchangeably, as you included no definition. If anything my post and included article refers that affection for one's country and willingness to defend it is not something bad. That's patriotism. Something I embrace.

I do too, so much so that I put my money where my mouth is and proudly served my country.

I didn't include a definition because I assumed everyone here knows what the words mean, and I added JMO because I know plenty of people think nationalism is okay when they're talking about their own country.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Stores likely to face more lawsuits over ban on under-21 gun sales

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...e-more-lawsuits-over-ban-under-21-gun-n854996

"I am confident that Walmart and Dick's are violating Oregon's discrimination in public accommodations laws," said Max Whittington, the lawyer who filed the challenges in that state.

"The wording of the statute only has one reasonable interpretation, and that is you cannot discriminate against 18-20 year olds in offering the sale of goods which they're legally allowed to purchase, be they rifles, or any other legal product," he said.

Eugene Volokh, a law professor at UCLA said the case "seems open and shut for the plaintiff and against Dick's."

Posted upthread, iirc. The store policy doesn’t supersede their legal right to own and use legal firearms, and the firearms he wants are still available to him from other sellers, probably not creating any undue hardship. All that’s IMO

I wonder if any eventual precedent set in protracted case about the Colorado baker refusing to make a cake for an LGBTQ wedding would weigh into it.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/...age-cake.html?referer=https://www.google.com/

 

[rsd1200]

self delete posted to wrong post

 

[rsd1200]

I'm putting out the definitions because some folks use them interchangeably. I didn't say you didn't know. I was just jumping off your post, to denote the difference for those who do use it interchangeably, as you included no definition. If anything my post and included article refers that affection for one's country and willingness to defend it is not something bad. That's patriotism. Something I embrace.

Well, apparently, as recently as 2016, some didn't as the article states:

Nationalism and patriotism are two words which are often used inter-changeably. This is incorrect since there is a world of difference between the two concepts, in spite of a few shared ideals.

I also think some on here have been accusing others of nationalism, when, in fact, it is patriotism. j.s.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

Kentucky repealed the helmet law. While I agree one should be able to make their own choice on how they wish to ride their own bike, I agree with the law that only riders and passengers, 21+, should be allowed to do so. That's a form of ageism as you are old enough to buy a very powerful machine, at age 18, but can't make a decision about wearing a helmet? Personally, when I ride my motorcycles, I ride with a helmet, but it's my choice.

When people decide to ride a motorcycle without an helmet and have a bad accident, they often become brain-damaged. Their choice.

But if they can't pay (and that's generally the case) the community ends up with the medical costs. No one's choice.

 

[bluesneakers]

Well, apparently, as recently as 2016, some didn't as the article states:

I also think some on here have been accusing others of nationalism, when, in fact, it is patriotism. j.s.

I think some on here are reading too much into others' comments, although maybe I'm wrong. Can show me a post where someone was accused of nationalism? Thanks in advance.

 

[rsd1200]

When people decide to ride a motorcycle without an helmet and have a bad accident, they often become brain-damaged. Their choice.

But if they can't pay (and that's generally the case) the community ends up with the medical costs. No one's choice.

The public is absorbing the costs of these shootings too. I think states, and businesses, (Cabela's for example), can do more, faster, than the Federal Govt. though. That's why it's not ageism. I replied to the wrong post I think but it's still relevant. No one under 21 should ride w/o a helmet and insurance coverage, obviously should be a must. My insurance covered nearly everything when I had my crash and I had a really bad one. So the public didn't absorb my crash. Multiple surgeries too. I had my helmet on is the only reason I'm alive today.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

When people decide to ride a motorcycle without an helmet and have a bad accident, they often become brain-damaged. Their choice.

But if they can't pay (and that's generally the case) the community ends up with the medical costs. No one's choice.

If they’re not insured, this scenario is more likely.

I would imagine it’s similar with gun accidents and violence, too. In a school shooting like Parkland, the collective costs must be blindingly high, I imagine.

 

[rsd1200]

I think some on here are reading too much into others' comments, although maybe I'm wrong. Can show me a post where someone was accused of nationalism? Thanks in advance.

I think that's going both ways. Obviously you posted that about nationalism for a reason. So...

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

If they’re not insured, this scenario is more likely.

I would imagine it’s similar with gun accidents and violence, too. In a school shooting like Parkland, the collective costs must be blindingly high, I imagine.

Could it be possible to make a case against AR-15- style-rifle because of the cost associated to it in mass-shootings?