Hailey Dunn: General Discussion thread #3

[Tugela]

You don't think its violent when someone threatens to kill someone? I do for sure. Saying that I agree with what you say about Billie. I just don't think Shawn is a little teddy bear.

No, because I understand the difference between an idle threat and a real threat. People say that kind of stuff all the time when they are in an emotional dispute, it is rare that anything actually happens however. Violence is when someone acts, not when they pretend they could. Hands waving does not bother me, hands striking does. And if he had no history of the striking part, a person with BDs personality would not be too worried about him hand waving.

Typically the person on the other side of that sort of exchange greatly exaggerates the threat as well, when they are trying to recruit third parties to their side of the argument. And in this particular instance BD was clearly trying to recruit IMO. As I said, she was calling in (apparently more than once, if the LEOs comments were anything to go by) primarily because of concern that SA was going to take her stuff, not specifically because of a threat. The allegation of the threat was used to try and recruit LE to her cause to enforce her side of the argument. I suspect this is her MO when dealing with conflict and confrontation. That is fairly common in non-physical aggressive extravert types.

You really should take some time to observe human behaviour and social dynamics, not emotionally but from a neutral position, it can be very instructive

 

[Suthrnqt]

One big screwed up mess is what I see. I disagree with Marc Klaas' statement, I do think BD was in denial. Had she been able to stop being concerned about her love life, and had she taken a big step backwards, she would have been able to think clearly. I don't think that happened during that time. Hailey drew the short straw on parenting, and with all the drama and messed up lives, this case was bungled. I see one victim here: Hailey.

BBM

ITA!!
Sadly, we see that type of behavior here on WS time and time again.

 

[Suthrnqt]

No, because I understand the difference between an idle threat and a real threat. People say that kind of stuff all the time when they are in an emotional dispute, it is rare that anything actually happens however.

RSBM

I respectfully disagree. If it was 'rare that anything actually happens' as you state, WS wouldn't have so many threads dedicated to the many times it has happened. Again and again.

 

[kirby]

No, because I understand the difference between an idle threat and a real threat. People say that kind of stuff all the time when they are in an emotional dispute, it is rare that anything actually happens however. Violence is when someone acts, not when they pretend they could. Hands waving does not bother me, hands striking does. And if he had no history of the striking part, a person with BDs personality would not be too worried about him hand waving.

Typically the person on the other side of that sort of exchange greatly exaggerates the threat as well, when they are trying to recruit third parties to their side of the argument. And in this particular instance BD was clearly trying to recruit IMO. As I said, she was calling in (apparently more than once, if the LEOs comments were anything to go by) primarily because of concern that SA was going to take her stuff, not specifically because of a threat. The allegation of the threat was used to try and recruit LE to her cause to enforce her side of the argument. I suspect this is her MO when dealing with conflict and confrontation. That is fairly common in non-physical aggressive extravert types.

You really should take some time to observe human behaviour and social dynamics, not emotionally but from a neutral position, it can be very instructive

A threat to human life is a criminal offense. If "people say these things all the time" in your neck of the woods, I suggest you find another treehouse. I wish Hailey could have found a new treehouse.

 

[sophiebelle]

In this day of women of all ages, and children going missing, no threat should be ignored. If you are nutty enough to call and threaten to kill people, you are nutty enough to kill people. With drugs and alcohol giving people super powers, it makes it even more dangerous. I would never tell anyone to to ignore a threat.
Many have said "I could kill him..." at some point in their life. But did they repeatedly call and say it to the person? If someone threatens your child, pfft, they didn't mean it. Baloney!

 

[Jacie Estes]

A threat to human life is a criminal offense. If "people say these things all the time" in your neck of the woods, I suggest you find another treehouse. I wish Hailey could have found a new treehouse.

Hailey would still be here if she had not been surrounded by crazyiness. Those she trusted to protect her, failed her and she was murdered.

 

[sophiebelle]

When parents are too concerned with their own love lives, boyfriends, girlfriends, and are too busy having fun, it takes it's toll on children. What I have seen here and even off here, over the past few years, is a lot of me me me.
It's a sad commentary for Hailey.

 

[Suthrnqt]

When parents are too concerned with their own love lives, boyfriends, girlfriends, and are too busy having fun, it takes it's toll on children. What I have seen here and even off here, over the past few years, is a lot of me me me.
It's a sad commentary for Hailey.

This is so true. Thanks for your very insightful posts. ITA with everything you have stated.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Bumping for Hailey.

 

[nannymo]

One thing I don't understand about the child porn and there being none Billie said herself in an interview with the media that LE showed her some of it so if there was none where did that come from that she was shown?

I believe there is evidence of pornography. Weather it is child porn or not I really do not remember. I think what happened about the pornography issue is the fact that so many people had access to the computer, it could not be determined who the pornography really did belong to so the investigation just came to a standstill. The only way to prove where the images came from would be through a credit card account or email and if multiple people shared the computer at SA Mom's house, no telling who it was obtained through.

As for the flash drives and such. I remember a comment from LE during this case where they said every piece of digital imaging in SA possession had pornography on it. Weather he put it there or not is the BIG question. They would have to be able to prove it belonged to him and I don't think they can at this point. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist tho...JMO

 

[Suthrnqt]

I believe there is evidence of pornography. Weather it is child porn or not I really do not remember. I think what happened about the pornography issue is the fact that so many people had access to the computer, it could not be determined who the pornography really did belong to so the investigation just came to a standstill. The only way to prove where the images came from would be through a credit card account or email and if multiple people shared the computer at SA Mom's house, no telling who it was obtained through.

As for the flash drives and such. I remember a comment from LE during this case where they said every piece of digital imaging in SA possession had pornography on it. Weather he put it there or not is the BIG question. They would have to be able to prove it belonged to him and I don't think they can at this point. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist tho...JMO

Thanks, nannymo. You jogged my memory with your post. I remember the porn discussion, and iirc, porn was discovered. But like you said, it could never be determined who downloaded the porn. But it definitely existed, jmo.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Bumping for Hailey! :rose:

 

[Tugela]

I believe there is evidence of pornography. Weather it is child porn or not I really do not remember. I think what happened about the pornography issue is the fact that so many people had access to the computer, it could not be determined who the pornography really did belong to so the investigation just came to a standstill. The only way to prove where the images came from would be through a credit card account or email and if multiple people shared the computer at SA Mom's house, no telling who it was obtained through.

As for the flash drives and such. I remember a comment from LE during this case where they said every piece of digital imaging in SA possession had pornography on it. Weather he put it there or not is the BIG question. They would have to be able to prove it belonged to him and I don't think they can at this point. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist tho...JMO

They also said his devices at BDs house had CP on it, and that was false, so I wouldn't put too much stock on what Toombs was alleged to have said.

Actually SA didn't have much in the way of digital storage devices at all. IIRC it was his phone, one or two DVDs, and that was it. With so little in his possession it is pretty clear that he likely didn't use a computer for much of anything, other than occasionally doing browsing/email/facebook/boards....that sort of thing. I think that any porn he watched was incidental, and it was not some sort of obsession in any shape or form. The amount of porn on his stuff is trivial compared to what was on the mother's home computer. Apparently SA did most of his computer time on the machine at the GM's house, not the one at the mothers house, and the GM's computer apparently had one image on it. So I think it is safe to say that SA did not spend much time looking at porn. I know some of you will disagree with that, but there is zero evidence for a contrary view, and the fact that the guy did not even have his own computer pretty much rules out a porn obsession.

The computer at the mothers house had about 100k porn images on it. So who did all that belong to? None of it was CP however, the alleged CP was recovered later by the FBI from empty part of the hard drive. FYI, when a file is stored on a hard drive the data is filed in one area, and pointers to the data stored in another area. When the file is deleted, all the computer does is delete the pointer, not the actual file. Although you can't see it, the file is still there, until that part of the hard drive is used to store something else, at which time the old data will be overwritten.

Most likely they were able to find suspect images in these empty areas, but did not have any record of the pointers, which would have information about when it was downloaded etc. So it would be impossible to say who downloaded it.

But, the fact that there was 100k+ porn files on the computer that were not deleted (in other words, a collection) tells us that whoever did download it probably was not looking for CP, but rather regular porn. If they were downloading it from newsgroups or feeds, chances are they would have accidently downloaded CP as well since they would not know exactly what they were downloading until the files were on their computer. The CP thus downloaded was apparently completely deleted since nothing remained in the otherwise large collection. Whoever created the collection was collecting porn, not CP.

Given the size of the porn collection it is almost certain that it belonged to someone living in the mothers house. It usually takes a fair amount of time to download files from sources, so it would require someone to be using the computer on a daily basis when they could have extended periods of uninterrupted use.

As I understand it, there was a teenager living in the house, and IMO they would be the most likely candidate. Lots of time alone away from prying eyes while the adults are at work. If you have a teenager in the same house as a computer connected to the internet, there is a 99.9% probability that the computer is going to be used to view porn or other dubious material. That is just how it is.

 

[For The Kids]

Given the size of the porn collection it is almost certain that it belonged to someone living in the mothers house. It usually takes a fair amount of time to download files from sources, so it would require someone to be using the computer on a daily basis when they could have extended periods of uninterrupted use.

As I understand it, there was a teenager living in the house, and IMO they would be the most likely candidate. Lots of time alone away from prying eyes while the adults are at work. If you have a teenager in the same house as a computer connected to the internet, there is a 99.9% probability that the computer is going to be used to view porn or other dubious material. That is just how it is.

Actually you can download a music disc from files in a matter of seconds. A film can be downloaded in around an hour so I don't think it would have taken long to download those pictures at all to be honest.

 

[Tugela]

Actually you can download a music disc from files in a matter of seconds. A film can be downloaded in around an hour so I don't think it would have taken long to download those pictures at all to be honest.

It depends on how many people are seeding and what they have their upload limits set at.

Porn is generally fragmented and renamed extensively, so there would not be that many seeds available for any particular file. Plus, there is a ton of it, with not that many people seeding individual files. Music or movies are different because they typically have relatively few renames and large seed reservoirs. Downloading those sorts of files is much faster as a result.

Torrents are efficient if you have a lot of people sharing a file, much less so if there are few and those few are protecting their bandwidth. If you are trying to download a 1GB file with 10 or 20 seeds, all set at 2 kpbs (or something like that), it will take a few weeks to complete it.

The computer also needs to be running constantly during this process as well, if you use it for an hour or so every week, with someone else using it the rest of the time (and switching it off), it would literally take months. Like I said, whoever downloaded all this stuff was living at the house and was the primary user of the computer without question.

 

[carbuff]

You're right about teenagers and porn. Both sexes. Even if they're just mildly curious, they'll get some weird stuff -- and probably be overcharged for it, too. Which doesn't prove that any particular teenager downloaded anything, of course.

But adult porn, even way out there kinky adult porn, isn't even in the same ballpark as child porn.

 

[Knox]

Snipped- Actually SA didn't have much in the way of digital storage devices at all. IIRC it was his phone, one or two DVDs, and that was it. With so little in his possession it is pretty clear that he likely didn't use a computer for much of anything, other than occasionally doing browsing/email/facebook/boards....that sort of thing.

No one remembers the key ring with several memory sticks on it, which SA was said to have on his person at all times? Anyone?

 

[Knox]

HOST: What did they find on the computer?
SHAWN ADKINS: OK, I was told that they found child pornography, bestiality on my mother’s computer, and then I also heard it on the news that they found child pornography on this memory stick. And then I just found out today that in the afternoon nationally, they were telling everyone there was child porn on that memory stick. There was none on there whatsoever. I found this out today.
As far as my mom’s computer, I found out there was child pornography and bestiality on there and it came to me as a total shock. I couldn’t believe it, you know, I’m still having a hard time believing it.
HOST: Who has access to that computer?
SHAWN ADKINS: There’s a million people. I’m saying there’s 10 plus people who have access to that computer. A bunch of people have.
HOST: What was on that memory stick?
SHAWN ADKINS: To my knowledge just pictures that I took on there of me and Billie, family photos, and other things from the internet that I got from websites and stuff. You know, nothing illegal.
HOST: Billie stated last night that it was of you and her, and then of you and another girl.
SHAWN ADKINS: Uh, might have been.

http://www.examiner.com/article/hai...e-exclusive-interview-shawn-adkins-speaks-out

 

[Soulmagent]

I recall one on a key ring ,and 5 found in total.

 

[carbuff]

Thanks.

I'm afraid I don't believe anything that seems to be something LE told an involved party...it seems like they probably lied to people to try to get them to break down. A pretty normal tactic but it does make it hard to find out what the truth might really be