Hailey Dunn: General Discussion thread #3

[Suthrnqt]

I think they know who took her life... but, without enough evidence for a conviction we may never have an arrest. I pray some day an arrest is made.

I think they know, also.

 

[Tugela]

What evidence is there that suggests they were going down the wrong path in making Adkins a POI? Because I haven't seen anything whatsoever that suggests he wasn't in some way involved in what happened to Hailey. You say that they haven't said lately that Shawn is a POI but more importantly the truth is they haven't said he is no longer considered to be a POI OR that he has been cleared.

Because initially in the search warrant affidavits the focus was on what SA was doing during the day and portraying that as suspicious. That is what they based their belief of him as POI on. But then it turned out that there were multiple eye witness sightings of HD during the day, the discovery of the earring at her fathers house (which could only have got there that day), and the fact that the home phone was used to communicate with one of her friends during the day. And during that time LE knew for sure that SA was in Big Spring. At the time they drew up their affidavits they didn't know any of that.

That is why there were never any subsequent warrants obtained, they no longer had probable cause. And IMO it is also why Toombs suddenly and for no obvious reason decided to give Clint a poly 6 months later and pronounced that his initial belief was vindicated without providing any further details. In his press release the language he used was defensive, which is a strange thing for a LE lead to do, certainly it struck me as very odd at the time. Clearly he was under pressure from other LE agencies/persons who didn't buy into his theory and were pushing other alternatives.

The real problem with this investigation and why it has gone nowhere IMO is Toombs, and his tunnel vision approach. So SA became a POI in his mind based on his initial impressions, and perhaps Toombs stuck doggedly to that even after it became clear that their suspicion of SA was unfounded. He formed a scenario in which SA came back to CC during the day and did a crime, and tried to collect evidence to support that, but the later evidence suggests that the real case didn't happen like that. IMO the sheriff couldn't move past his original theory, so the investigation stalled. I think it stopped being an investigation and became a contest of egos. Because jurisdiction rested with him until HD's body was found, just about all evidence is cold and long gone, so solving the case now is probably not going to happen short of a confession.

LE usually don't say someone is no longer a POI unless they have 100% proof that is the case, they just leave the person hanging in a cloud of suspicion. The reason is because there are potential legal implications for future trials in the case. And in this case, since jurisdiction has moved to another agency, the original jurisdiction is not going to make further pronouncements. To know if SA is the only POI at this time, we would really need a statement from the current investigators, and I doubt they will say that.

 

[For The Kids]

Because initially in the search warrant affidavits the focus was on what SA was doing during the day and portraying that as suspicious. That is what they based their belief of him as POI on. But then it turned out that there were multiple eye witness sightings of HD during the day, the discovery of the earring at her fathers house (which could only have got there that day), and the fact that the home phone was used to communicate with one of her friends during the day. And during that time LE knew for sure that SA was in Big Spring. At the time they drew up their affidavits they didn't know any of that. So SA became a POI, and perhaps Toombs stuck doggedly to that even after it became clear that their suspicion of SA was unfounded. He formed a scenario in which SA came back to CC during the day and did a crime, and tried to collect evidence to support that, but the evidence suggests that it didn't happen like that.

That is why there were never any subsequent warrants obtained, they no longer had probable cause. And IMO it is also why Toombs suddenly and for no obvious reason decided to give Clint a poly 6 months later and pronounced that his initial belief was vindicated without providing any further details. In his press release the language he used was defensive, which is a strange thing for a LE lead to do, certainly it struck me as very odd at the time. Clearly he was under pressure from other LE agencies/persons who didn't buy into his theory and were pushing other alternatives.

The real problem with this investigation and why it has gone nowhere IMO is Toombs, and his tunnel vision approach. So SA became a POI in his mind based on his initial impressions, and perhaps Toombs stuck doggedly to that even after it became clear that their suspicion of SA was unfounded. He formed a scenario in which SA came back to CC during the day and did a crime, and tried to collect evidence to support that, but the later evidence suggests that the real case didn't happen like that. IMO the sheriff couldn't move past his original theory, so the investigation stalled. I think it stopped being an investigation and became a contest of egos. Because jurisdiction rested with him until HD's body was found, just about all evidence is cold and long gone, so solving the case now is probably not going to happen short of a confession.

I disagree with what you said. Or some at least. When has it been confirmed there was any sightings of Hailey on the day in question? Most according to LE have been classed as unfounded/mistaken on the days. You also state that the earring could have only got there that day. That isn't true. As its not 100% certain when Hailey last wore the earrings there is no way of knowing this at all. Bearing in mind Clint HAS been cleared I don't believe for one second that Hailey was there that day. Thirdly there is no proof whatsoever that Hailey sent that text message especially considering we know she was never really going to stay there that night. We the public don't know why LE believed Shawn was considered to be responsible so quickly or what evidence they had. My personal opinion is they had more reasons than that. Although I 100% disagree with your view that Shawn isn't involved in any way I do admire the way you defend someone you believe to be innocent.

 

[StacieC]

It's been a year today they finally called Hailey's mom and told her the remains found at the lake were Hailey. Today a year ago I got a most horrible phone call, one I wish would I could forget.
Today not one law enforcement office besides the wonderful Texas Rangers called Hailey's family to check in.
In my most honest and disappointed opinion, they know nothing. They looked at only one person seriously and obviously did a poor job of it. If he is guilty and they haven't even spoken to him in two years, much less arrested him, they have nothing on Him. I personally will feel absolutely horrible to know that I have believed a possible innocent guy guilty of Hailey's murder. LE believed Hailey a runaway during critical investigation time. They never interviewed all of the rso's nor looked at any other possibilities until it was too late. I'm truly horrified that we sit here a year later and nothing has been done for Hailey by any le agency since she first disappeared.
I am rambling. This mess I wrote doesn't even make sense to me. Today is another very sad day.
I pray for justice for Hailey everyday.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Their time will come. I haven't seen any good evidence to make me change my mind on who is responsible. Same poi(s) from since Hailey went missing. jmo

 

[Soulmagent]

In all honesty I am not sure that they have proof he was the last person to see her alive. I am not sure how they can have proof. Shawn claims he saw Hailey walking from that house but there is no proof that this was true or that she was really alive at that time. IF that is not the true then obviously LE need to know exactly when Hailey died and who was around her at that time.

Also do you have a link to where the dog hit on something at the dump? As for the hotel room I thought the dogs hit OUTSIDE the hotel and not inside it? Bearing in mind ( and there are different opinions on this) that you supposedly could access wifi from outside then its not strange that she would have been in the area at some point. It doesn't mean that it was the day in question though. Same thing I think the dog went near Clints if I remember rightly but as we know she was at her dads over Christmas you would expect there to be a scent anyhow so that wasn't surprising.

I never said anything about a dog hit at a land fill.
I asked if they found anything in the land fill searches.
However I found a report on it by the examiner in case you wanted that link.
http://www.examiner.com/article/hailey-dunn-possible-cadaver-dog-hits-at-texas-landfill-that-s-now-closed

There is also this link.

http://article.wn.com/view/2011/01/16/Hailey_Dunn_Possible_cadaver_dog_hits_at_Texas_landfill_that/

I have an old now defuct link that states that the scent went into the hotel.

I will post the information I have on the article and the dead link for it and you can follow up with the reporter if you would like. Or dismiss it if you would like.

Here is the dead link to the article.
http://www.thenewsportalonline.com/hailey-dunn-missing-cheerleader-girl-from-texas-still-missing/118319

Article info.
Hailey Dunn Missing Cheerleader Girl From Texas Still Missing

Written by Michelle Smith in, January 2011

Scent tracing dogs have been brought in but thus far they have turned up very little. They did manage to pick up her scent in a motel parking lot and then into a ground floor room but the trail went cold and there were no clues inside the room.

 

[For The Kids]

I never said anything about a dog hit at a land fill.
I asked if they found anything in the land fill searches.
However I found a report on it by the examiner in case you wanted that link.
http://www.examiner.com/article/hailey-dunn-possible-cadaver-dog-hits-at-texas-landfill-that-s-now-closed

There is also this link.

http://article.wn.com/view/2011/01/16/Hailey_Dunn_Possible_cadaver_dog_hits_at_Texas_landfill_that/

I have an old now defuct link that states that the scent went into the hotel.

I will post the information I have on the article and the dead link for it and you can follow up with the reporter if you would like. Or dismiss it if you would like.

Here is the dead link to the article.
http://www.thenewsportalonline.com/hailey-dunn-missing-cheerleader-girl-from-texas-still-missing/118319

Article info.
Hailey Dunn Missing Cheerleader Girl From Texas Still Missing

Written by Michelle Smith in, January 2011

Wasn't Clint shown videos of people inside the motel? to be honest I am not positive but I thought that was the case?

Something else to consider maybe. When Hailey went missing there was one organisation that was publishing some pretty outlandish things about things that had supposedly been found. Some of her articles were then copied by other organisations. Some of these people just want hits on there sites IMO and don't care if family members get hurt in the mean time. One of the organisations writing things about Hailey also claimed a year or so ago that during a search for Holly Bobo that she had been found. This simply wasn't true but just imagine how the Bobos would have felt if they had heart which I have no doubt they did.

 

[Tugela]

I disagree with what you said. Or some at least. When has it been confirmed there was any sightings of Hailey on the day in question? Most according to LE have been classed as unfounded/mistaken on the days. You also state that the earring could have only got there that day. That isn't true. As its not 100% certain when Hailey last wore the earrings there is no way of knowing this at all. Bearing in mind Clint HAS been cleared I don't believe for one second that Hailey was there that day. Thirdly there is no proof whatsoever that Hailey sent that text message especially considering we know she was never really going to stay there that night. We the public don't know why LE believed Shawn was considered to be responsible so quickly or what evidence they had. My personal opinion is they had more reasons than that. Although I 100% disagree with your view that Shawn isn't involved in any way I do admire the way you defend someone you believe to be innocent.

LE said that the sightings could not be corroborated, not that they were not true. That is a big difference.

One of the sightings involved a neighbor who saw her using the phone at around midday, and in fact the phone WAS used at around midday. Why is that not corroboration?

Another sighting was by the hairdresser who say her in the company of a young boy. The hairdresser claimed in interviews that investigators told her that the boy was too young to be relied on. That tells me two things (a) they knew who this boy was, and (b) he confirmed what she said, but they thought his age meant he couldn't be relied on for accuracy.

Regarding what the sheriff said in his press interview when he did a poly on Clint 6 months later, the Sheriff claimed that the results confirmed his original belief that CD was not involved but declined to give any further details or say if the poly was passed or not. The language he used suggested that he had been pressured into it, and the press conference was what he felt to be a vindication.

He did NOT say that HD had not been Clint's house that day. So, she may very well have been there at some point that day. That does NOT mean that Clint had anything to do with what happened to her that evening however. Those two things are not connected, but the one does cast doubts on Toombs theory regarding SA, which is what we are discussing here. Certainly there must have enough doubt about what CD, and people associated with him, were saying within at least parts of LE for the Sheriff to decide to do a Poly after so much time.

 

[Suthrnqt]

LE said that the sightings could not be corroborated, not that they were not true. That is a big difference.

One of the sightings involved a neighbor who saw her using the phone at around midday, and in fact the phone WAS used at around midday. Why is that not corroboration?

Another sighting was by the hairdresser who say her in the company of a young boy. The hairdresser claimed in interviews that investigators told her that the boy was too young to be relied on. That tells me two things (a) they knew who this boy was, and (b) he confirmed what she said, but they thought his age meant he couldn't be relied on for accuracy.

Regarding what the sheriff said in his press interview when he did a poly on Clint 6 months later, the Sheriff claimed that the results confirmed his original belief that CD was not involved but declined to give any further details or say if the poly was passed or not. The language he used suggested that he had been pressured into it, and the press conference was what he felt to be a vindication.

He did NOT say that HD had not been Clint's house that day. So, she may very well have been there at some point that day. That does NOT mean that Clint had anything to do with what happened to her that evening however. Those two things are not connected, but the one does cast doubts on Toombs theory regarding SA, which is what we are discussing here. Certainly there must have enough doubt about what CD, and people associated with him, were saying within at least parts of LE for the Sheriff to decide to do a Poly after so much time.

I think others who had to take a poly complained because CD didn't have to. So to quiet them down, the Sheriff gave one to CD. And it was determined CD was not involved.
:moo: :moo: :moo:

 

[StacieC]

Clint asked repeatedly to be allowed to watch all of the surveillance videos from the hotel. Don't quote me, but I think he told me was only able to watch an hour or so. I know he was never able/allowed to finish watching after he repeatedly requested to see all of it for those pertinent hours.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Clint asked repeatedly to be allowed to watch all of the surveillance videos from the hotel. Don't quote me, but I think he told me was only able to watch an hour or so. I know he was never able/allowed to finish watching after he repeatedly requested to see all of it for those pertinent hours.

Well unless the tapes showed SA (the only POI) abducting Hailey, what significance do the tapes have in her disappearance?
I absolutely believe with all my heart that SA was involved in the disappearance and death of Hailey. I do not believe he acted alone, [modsnip]

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well unless the tapes showed SA (the only POI) abducting Hailey, what significance do the tapes have in her disappearance?
I absolutely believe with all my heart that SA was involved in the disappearance and death of Hailey. I do not believe he acted alone, but since we are not allowed to discuss anyone but SA, I will stop here. :moo: :moo:

ETA: sitting on my hands so I don't have to go sit in the corner.

I totally and completely agree.

Does Billies friend still post here?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tlcya]

So frustrating with no new news

 

[Knox]

Well unless the tapes showed SA (the only POI) abducting Hailey, what significance do the tapes have in her disappearance?
I absolutely believe with all my heart that SA was involved in the disappearance and death of Hailey. I do not believe he acted alone, [modsnip].

There's always some sort of "phantom suspect" theory being floated around. If there were someone either Clint or Billie considered a "suspicious character", they wouldn't have needed to see them on tape to bring them to LE's attention. In addition, LE could have checked out each hotel guest who checked in during the relevant period of time.

ITA with all you say above Suthrnqt. Besides, most recently Sheriff Wilson told the Snyder newspaper, they were still waiting for lab results.

 

[PPKik]

There's always some sort of "phantom suspect" theory being floated around. If there were someone either Clint or Billie considered a "suspicious character", they wouldn't have needed to see them on tape to bring them to LE's attention. In addition, LE could have checked out each hotel guest who checked in during the relevant period of time.

ITA with all you say above Suthrnqt. Besides, most recently Sheriff Wilson told the Snyder newspaper, they were still waiting for lab results.

Michael Board WOAI Newsradio Police, weve learned this week, brought in bloodhounds, and amazingly, those dogs were able to pick up Hailey's scent. Yes, they tracked her exact path. They went from her mother's home to her father's home, and then from her father`s home to her friends home, which is a couple blocks away.

But Nancy, this is where the story takes a tragic turn. The bloodhounds then track her scent to a motel in Colorado City. Nancy, why does a 13-year-old girl have any reason in the world to go to a motel? Right now, they`re scanning through the surveillance cameras, and we`re told so far, they have not seen Hailey`s pictures on those security cameras, but they`re continuing to look into that area.

Maybe there`s another business there. Maybe there was a convenience store that maybe had a surveillance camera or a security camera. They`re hoping, they`re praying that maybe there was another camera in that area that was able to catch her picture.

GRACE: Michael Board, when did the bloodhounds come to the scene?

BOARD: They -- where did they come to the scene? They tracked her scent...

GRACE: When? When? When did they come?

BOARD: Oh, when. When. They came this week. It was almost immediately. They were able to get bloodhounds from a nearby airport, to bring them over and start tracking the scene. This was almost from the beginning. So it was a fresh scent.

transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1101/04/ng.01.html

There were no "phantom suspects" that I have heard of.

There were numerous reports that tracking dogs tracked Hailey to a motel and even inside that motel. These are the CCTV tapes that Clint wanted to see. The tapes of all the comings and goings of that motel. Have people forgotten about how badly Clint wanted to see those tapes?

Why wouldn't both of Hailey's parents have wanted to see these CCTV tapes when the last known trail led to this motel? They did want to and were not allowed!

The biggest obstacle besides gross police incompetence was Pete Kampher, a man who has gone from town to town, losing job after job. How many towns? Wasn't he exposed for being some kind of clerk for the FBI and not an agent as he claimed?

Why didn't the police/Kampher make these tapes available to the parents? How would anyone else but Hailey's parents have known the significance of someone on those tapes, unless Hailey's parents were allowed to see those tapes?

Was there someone on those tapes that LE did not want known to anyone but themselves, and that is why they gave Clint and Billie Dunn very limited access? LE had nothing to lose and everything to gain by allowing the parents to view those tapes, yet they would not.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Michael Board WOAI Newsradio Police, weve learned this week, brought in bloodhounds, and amazingly, those dogs were able to pick up Hailey's scent. Yes, they tracked her exact path. They went from her mother's home to her father's home, and then from her father`s home to her friends home, which is a couple blocks away.

But Nancy, this is where the story takes a tragic turn. The bloodhounds then track her scent to a motel in Colorado City. Nancy, why does a 13-year-old girl have any reason in the world to go to a motel? Right now, they`re scanning through the surveillance cameras, and we`re told so far, they have not seen Hailey`s pictures on those security cameras, but they`re continuing to look into that area.

Maybe there`s another business there. Maybe there was a convenience store that maybe had a surveillance camera or a security camera. They`re hoping, they`re praying that maybe there was another camera in that area that was able to catch her picture.

GRACE: Michael Board, when did the bloodhounds come to the scene?

BOARD: They -- where did they come to the scene? They tracked her scent...

GRACE: When? When? When did they come?

BOARD: Oh, when. When. They came this week. It was almost immediately. They were able to get bloodhounds from a nearby airport, to bring them over and start tracking the scene. This was almost from the beginning. So it was a fresh scent.

transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1101/04/ng.01.html

There were no "phantom suspects" that I have heard of.

There were numerous reports that tracking dogs tracked Hailey to a motel and even inside that motel. These are the CCTV tapes that Clint wanted to see. The tapes of all the comings and goings of that motel. Have people forgotten about how badly Clint wanted to see those tapes?

Why wouldn't both of Hailey's parents have wanted to see these CCTV tapes when the last known trail led to this motel? They did want to and were not allowed!

The biggest obstacle besides gross police incompetence was Pete Kampher, a man who has gone from town to town, losing job after job. How many towns? Wasn't he exposed for being some kind of clerk for the FBI and not an agent as he claimed?

Why didn't the police/Kampher make these tapes available to the parents? How would anyone else but Hailey's parents have known the significance of someone on those tapes, unless Hailey's parents were allowed to see those tapes?

Was there someone on those tapes that LE did not want known to anyone but themselves, and that is why they gave Clint and Billie Dunn very limited access? LE had nothing to lose and everything to gain by allowing the parents to view those tapes, yet they would not.

But LE DID view the tapes, correct? If Hailey had been at the motel, wouldn't she also have been on the tapes? IIRC, LE never reported that Hailey appeared on any of the tapes.
What is the motivation behind LE purposely keeping a possible suspect from the parents and the public?
I am all for conspiracy theories, but in this case, I sincerely think you are grasping at straws. jmo

No phantom suspects, just the same POI(s) since Hailey disappeared.
:moo: :moo: :moo:

 

[PPKik]

But LE DID view the tapes, correct? If Hailey had been at the motel, wouldn't she also have been on the tapes? IIRC, LE never reported that Hailey appeared on any of the tapes.
What is the motivation behind LE purposely keeping a possible suspect from the parents and the public?
I am all for conspiracy theories, but in this case, I sincerely think you are grasping at straws. jmo

No phantom suspects, just the same POI(s) since Hailey disappeared.
:moo: :moo: :moo:

Suthrnqt I have no idea if LE viewed the tapes. They wren't competent or honest about one thing in this case. Not one thing. All I know is that Clint said they would let him view all the tapes and they didn't.

What if the tapes didn't catch Hailey (maybe they were being changed or were down), but Clint or Billie recognized someone sketchy, for example.

I'm really not for conspiracies:scared:, but, in this case, LE screwed up so badly, and are still screwing up so badly, by not even having the decency to speak to the parents of Hailey Dunn after all this time, that I wouldn't put anything past them: CCity, Mitchell Co., Scurry Co., and the Federal Bungling Idjits. Did I leave out the TR's? Sorry.

I guess for me, Suthrnqt, the lack of evidence and arrest(s) speaks volumes.

These are my opinions only and are never to be copied in any form and taken off of Websleuths.

 

[Suthrnqt]

I apologize. I must have misunderstood what you were saying here.

<snipped by me for emphasis>

Was there someone on those tapes that LE did not want known to anyone but themselves, and that is why they gave Clint and Billie Dunn very limited access? LE had nothing to lose and everything to gain by allowing the parents to view those tapes, yet they would not.

I thought you meant LE had viewed the tapes and kept vital info from surfacing. That's why I mentioned the conspiracy angle.
I must have mistook the intention of your words. So sorry. :blushing:

 

[Justice4HaileyDunn]

Sheriff Trey Wilson did release statements to the media in March 2014. He stated that they are still waiting on reports from the FBI lab in Quantico, VA. and the additional lab in Texas. (Part of Precious Hailey's remains are in VA, the other part in TX.)

Billie Dunn's live-in boyfriend Shawn Adkins is still a named suspect. (Source: Snyder Daily News. March 17 & 19, 2014)

 

[StacieC]

Sheriff Trey Wilson did release statements to the media in March 2014. He stated that they are still waiting on reports from the FBI lab in Quantico, VA. and the additional lab in Texas. (Part of Precious Hailey's remains are in VA, the other part in TX.)

Billie Dunn's live-in boyfriend Shawn Adkins is still a named suspect. (Source: Snyder Daily News. March 17 & 19, 2014)

The "live-in-boyfriend" alone is enough to show they have no clue what is going on. That relationship ended years ago... What a shame.
Tx Rangers said testing is completed to me on the phone. Why do Scurry Cty and the FBI continue to be less than truthful? It seriously creeps me out.