Halyna Hutchins Shot With Prop Gun - Alec Baldwin indicted & Hannah Gutierrez-Reed charged, 2021 #6

[Marantz4250b]

I can imagine that if I was being photographed whenever a camera could get a shot in, or filmed whenever a videographer could show me, or my family, to the world, and sticking a microphone in my face every time I came in or out of the entrance to my home, for the past say almost year and a half, I'd be pretty barky and gruff and miserable too. Wouldn't you?

He hasn't tried to avoid it when he thought the publicity was beneficial to him. Now it's not benefitting him he's "gruff" with everyone. I'm playing the world's smallest violin for him!

 

[al66pine]

If John Q. Public Did This?

I think they (the prosecution) should sit down and figure out what they would be doing if a similar type of accident occurred with unknown personalities. Somehow I doubt it would be like this, if that were the case. imo.

@deugirtni Interesting Q.
If it had happened w John Q in non-emotionally-fueled situation w no drugs, no booze, what do you think the prosecutor would do?
I've tried to think of a comparable non-filming situation IRL but drawing a blank (excuse the pun). Maybe someone responding to deugirtni 's post can supply one?

@deugirtni whaddaya think?
Give John Q. a pass from Day 1?
Or at this stage,
--- drop charges, period?
--- try to reach a plea arrangement for reduced sentence?
Or _____?

 

[steeltowngirl]

I don’t think there is any giving a pass to AB at this point. You all have made very good points about the lack of gun safety on the set. I do now have to wonder if he’s being made the celebrity scapegoat for the Rust set, and perhaps the entire movie industry. Realizing that MANY movie sets are run safely, but from what I’ve learned here, lax safety is prevalent on just as many, if not more.

Maybe AB will, in fact, do jail time. At a minimum, a felony conviction without jail time.

I would like to see something positive come from this horrific event. Would a safety campaign be effective? Would commercial spots about gun safety featuring AB in prison stripes saying “it could happen to you” be effective? Or would it be trite, cliche, laughable, especially to AB haters?

I don’t know the answers to the above. I feel so sad for Halyna’s family and those injured either physically or emotionally (or both) by the shooting on the Rust set.

But I am also feeling for AB and his family.
He is human.
He looks broken.

It was an accident. Preventable, but still an accident.

jmo

 

[PrairieWind]

I agree. I believe that if an ordinary citizen pointed a gun at someone who was not a threat, and pulled the trigger, for no good reason, that person would have been in a lot more trouble, a lot sooner.

Here’s a case of pleading guilty to second degree manslaughter. Just the first case that came to mind, snd the details aren’t the same, of course, but I don’t respect the ‘film actor exemption.’

Woman Who Fatally Shot Boyfriend in YouTube Stunt Pleads Guilty (Published 2017)

In June, Monalisa Perez, of Minnesota, shot at a thick book that her boyfriend was holding. She pleaded guilty to second-degree manslaughter.

www.nytimes.com

MOO

I think the movie set aspect of this incident is important. But what if the person holding the gun was not a major movie star, but instead just a no-name extra. There wouldn't be a special prosecutor, there wouldn't be a year long investigation, and I doubt there would have been a felony charge.

 

[SteveS]

I think the movie set aspect of this incident is important. But what if the person holding the gun was not a major movie star, but instead just a no-name extra. There wouldn't be a special prosecutor, there wouldn't be a year long investigation, and I doubt there would have been a felony charge.

I think it would be just the opposite. In fact, I think it might be even more of a chase for justice if the movie star was not the shooter, but instead the shootee.

Say that the news emerged that Alec Baldwin is dead, killed by some unknown cinematographer named H Hutchins who shot him in the making of a movie. We find out that she had aimed the gun at him and pulled the trigger, but claims she never even pulled the trigger, and besides she thought it didn't have a live round in it. She claims it was someone else's fault who was supposed to keep live ammo out of guns they would be playing around with.

Do we think LE would yawn and let her walk away? Or would there be an intensive investigation, and likely to be charges of some kind for the taking of a life of a *STAR!!* !? Would "I didn't mean to" and "It wasn't my responsibility to check the gun and make sure it had no live round in it before aiming at someone" be enough to make it all go away?

People get prosecuted all the time for "accidents," especially when someone is killed as a result. Someone pulls the trigger, someone else dies, and LE gets involved. Like someone else said, there should be no "movie star exception" that makes a movie set a place where the laws designed to protect people from careless disregard for human life cease to apply. IMO.

I also think that the FACT that AB didn't even bother to follow the precautions built into the process, to keep something like this from happening, but instead blew off safety training, gun-handling guidelines, and more, and did more or less what he felt like doing instead, is all going to be incredibly relevant to whether he will be found criminally liable. We'll see.

 

[PrairieWind]

I think it would be just the opposite.

Say that unknown cinematographer H Hutchins shot and killed Alec Baldwin in the making of a movie. We find out that she had aimed the gun at him and pulled the trigger, but claims she never even pulled the trigger, and besides she thought it didn't have a live round in it. She claims it was someone else's fault who was supposed to keep live ammo out of guns they would be playing around with.

Do we think LE would yawn and let her walk away? Or would there be an intensive investigation, and likely to be charges of some kind for the taking of a life? Would "I didn't mean to" and "It wasn't my responsibility to check the sun and make sure it had no live round in it before aiming at someone" be enough to make it all go away?

People get prosecuted all the time for "accidents," especially when someone is killed as a result. Like someone else said, there should be no "movie star exception" that makes a movie set a place where the laws designed to protect people from careless disregard for human life cease to apply. IMO.

I don't think she would walk away. But I think the charges would be misdemeanors, not felony.

 

[deugirtni]

He hasn't tried to avoid it when he thought the publicity was beneficial to him. Now it's not benefitting him he's "gruff" with everyone. I'm playing the world's smallest violin for him!

It actually does seem to be benefitting him at this point in time since the prosecution had to remove the 'enhanced' part that she was all set to let the jury decide upon, as she had made an error of some kind. For the past year, this thing has been held over his head, and then for awhile after announcing that charges would definitely be laid.. I would think those times wouldn't have been beneficial to AB, more than now. imo.

 

[deugirtni]

If John Q. Public Did This?

@deugirtni Interesting Q.
If it had happened w John Q in non-emotionally-fueled situation w no drugs, no booze, what do you think the prosecutor would do?
I've tried to think of a comparable non-filming situation IRL but drawing a blank (excuse the pun). Maybe someone responding to deugirtni 's post can supply one?

@deugirtni whaddaya think?
Give John Q. a pass from Day 1?
Or at this stage,
--- drop charges, period?
--- try to reach a plea arrangement for reduced sentence?
Or _____?

I guess I did not ask the question clearly enough.. I meant in a similar situation, meaning, in a filming-a-movie setting, if a similar type of accident occurred, but with unknown personalities, as opposed to AB who is a celebrity and everyone knows him, he's been known a long time, he's been in many things, etc etc etc. I did not mean joe-blow member of the public in a home type of setting.

"I think they (the prosecution) should sit down and figure out what they would be doing if a similar type of accident occurred with unknown personalities. Somehow I doubt it would be like this, if that were the case. imo."

ETA fixed typo

 

[Midge Montana]

Well yeah, he should look rough. He killed a woman. He’s been a jerk for years. No sympathy. Sorry not sorry.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I guess I did not ask the question clear enough.. I meant in a similar situation, meaning, in a filming-a-movie setting, if a similar type of accident occurred, but with unknown personalities, as opposed to AB who is a celebrity and everyone knows him, he's been known a long time, he's been in many things, etc etc etc. I did not mean joe-blow member of the public in a home type of setting.

"I think they (the prosecution) should sit down and figure out what they would be doing if a similar type of accident occurred with unknown personalities. Somehow I doubt it would be like this, if that were the case. imo."

If it happened in this jurisdiction, NM, I reckon the outcome would be the same, to be honest. Identical situation with an unknown actor would see the same charges.

I think the difference would be that the "big names" would thank their lucky stars and the ones who weren't already doing it would clean up their acts and start checking guns themselves. Whilst telling anyone who'd listen that they'd been doing it the whole time!

 

[Cool Cats]

I think the movie set aspect of this incident is important. But what if the person holding the gun was not a major movie star, but instead just a no-name extra. There wouldn't be a special prosecutor, there wouldn't be a year long investigation, and I doubt there would have been a felony charge.

What I wonder is what the DA would have done if Alec wasn't a producer?

He wasn't just an actor coming cold to the set, he was producing it.

An unknown actor not producing is one thing, probably wouldn't have been charged, especially if not experienced with guns on set.

The DA thinks Alec should have known how to handle guns because they interviewed other well known actors about how they handle gun safety and they make sure the guns are safe.

His celebrity and experience and being producer are the 3 ingredients that got him a Felony indictment I think.

 

[10ofRods]

I agree. I believe that if an ordinary citizen pointed a gun at someone who was not a threat, and pulled the trigger, for no good reason, that person would have been in a lot more trouble, a lot sooner.

Here’s a case of pleading guilty to second degree manslaughter. Just the first case that came to mind, snd the details aren’t the same, of course, but I don’t respect the ‘film actor exemption.’

Woman Who Fatally Shot Boyfriend in YouTube Stunt Pleads Guilty (Published 2017)

In June, Monalisa Perez, of Minnesota, shot at a thick book that her boyfriend was holding. She pleaded guilty to second-degree manslaughter.

www.nytimes.com

MOO

That was such a sad case, and that woman was really stupid, for sure - but he pushed her and told her that there was NO WAY it would kill him. She trusted and believed him, then proceeded to break the rules of gun handling, believing completely that her (dumb) boyfriend would be okay.

I don't buy the film actor exemption either.

 

[10ofRods]

If John Q. Public Did This?

@deugirtni Interesting Q.
If it had happened w John Q in non-emotionally-fueled situation w no drugs, no booze, what do you think the prosecutor would do?
I've tried to think of a comparable non-filming situation IRL but drawing a blank (excuse the pun). Maybe someone responding to deugirtni 's post can supply one?

@deugirtni whaddaya think?
Give John Q. a pass from Day 1?
Or at this stage,
--- drop charges, period?
--- try to reach a plea arrangement for reduced sentence?
Or _____?

I personally think that it would still be involuntary manslaughter; recklessness clause. Especially in NM, which has a lot of gun deaths that are claimed to be accidental (I used to live there, it was such a worry - a lot of the deaths were kids).

Stats of the States - Firearm Mortality

www.cdc.gov

If someone was told a gun was empty or contained dummies, and they pointed it at someone and pulled the trigger (it appears he pulled the trigger back and then the hammer, then let the hammer go - something called "fanning" the gun), and it turned out there was a live round, it would be involuntary manslaughter.

Not only are there common rules of responsible gun behavior, but the unions involved in this workplace established the same rules (plus a rule that the gun should have been checked three times - once by the armorer, then by the armorer in the presence of the AD, and then by the armorer in the presence of the actor (dry shooting into the ground is described by some actors - if there are dummies, you should be able to pull the trigger - or fan - 6 times with no projectile exiting the gun). If they had all done what they were supposed to do, Halyna Hutchins would still be alive.

IMO. (The source for the workplace rules are the OSHA documents and the LE evidence file).

 

[Laughing]

Consider substituting a vehicle for that pistol in your thought process.

If Alex Baldwin, or anyone else, had a vehicle accident that resulted in a death, that driver could be charged with vehicular homicide or vehicular manslaughter.

2019 New Mexico Statutes :: Chapter 66 - Motor Vehicles :: Article 8 - Crimes, Penalties and Procedure :: Part 2 - TRAFFIC OFFENSES :: Section 66-8-101 - Homicide by vehicle; great bodily harm by vehicle.

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

Justice for Halyna Hutchins and her family, please.

 

[steeltowngirl]

If an unknown movie set

I guess I did not ask the question clearly enough.. I meant in a similar situation, meaning, in a filming-a-movie setting, if a similar type of accident occurred, but with unknown personalities, as opposed to AB who is a celebrity and everyone knows him, he's been known a long time, he's been in many things, etc etc etc. I did not mean joe-blow member of the public in a home type of setting.

"I think they (the prosecution) should sit down and figure out what they would be doing if a similar type of accident occurred with unknown personalities. Somehow I doubt it would be like this, if that were the case. imo."

ETA fixed typo

If 2 unknown personalities were involved, I wonder if we’d even be talking about it. Maybe there would have been one thread, up to 3 pages or so. I doubt there would be 6 threads. It would likely be barely a blip in mainstream media. We only hear a lot about those involving big names. jmo

Accidents on movie and television sets, like stuntmen and stuntwomen being injured during action sequences or actors getting killed when props malfunction, have occurred with some regularity over the last several decades. There have been at least 194 serious television- and film-set accidents in the United States from 1990 to 2014, and at least 43 deaths, according to The Associated Press.

Recent Accidents on TV and Movie Sets (Published 2021)

Accidents on sets have resulted in numerous deaths and injuries over the years, some bringing about lawsuits or changes in safety guidelines.

www.nytimes.com

 

[10ofRods]

I don’t think there is any giving a pass to AB at this point. You all have made very good points about the lack of gun safety on the set. I do now have to wonder if he’s being made the celebrity scapegoat for the Rust set, and perhaps the entire movie industry. Realizing that MANY movie sets are run safely, but from what I’ve learned here, lax safety is prevalent on just as many, if not more.

Maybe AB will, in fact, do jail time. At a minimum, a felony conviction without jail time.

I would like to see something positive come from this horrific event. Would a safety campaign be effective? Would commercial spots about gun safety featuring AB in prison stripes saying “it could happen to you” be effective? Or would it be trite, cliche, laughable, especially to AB haters?

I don’t know the answers to the above. I feel so sad for Halyna’s family and those injured either physically or emotionally (or both) by the shooting on the Rust set.

But I am also feeling for AB and his family.
He is human.
He looks broken.

It was an accident. Preventable, but still an accident.

jmo

He didn't look so unhappy while at the Italian restaurant with his wife, about a day before that pap picture. If only he didn't keep talking about how Halyna's death affected his career, he'd be in better shape, PR-wise.

He was so certain that he wouldn't be charged that he mocked a man on Twitter (Mike, a pool cleaner) and said that if he was indeed charged, that Mike had to come and clean his pool for free. He spent a year posting Instagram pictures of his large family while Andros Hutchins was mourning the loss of his mother.

www.instagram.com/alecbaldwininsta

He told George Stephanopoulis that he felt neither responsibility nor remorse.

Hutchins has said that made him feel angry.

Husband of ‘Rust’ cinematographer killed on set was ‘so angry’ Alec Baldwin did not ‘accept responsibility’

Matt Hutchins, husband of Halyna Hutchins, the cinematographer killed by a prop gun held by Alec Baldwin on set of "Rust" in October, spoke to Hoda Kotb in exclusive interview on TODAY.

www.today.com

I can't believe that Alec's lawyers approved that ABC interview, so I believe he just went and did it (and he also conducts that roadside interview just days after the shooting, beginning it by saying his lawyers told him not to talk to the press - so of course he does). He wanted control over the narrative and while I"m sure he's delighted not to be facing that extra charge, it's sinking in that starting tomorrow, he will be a criminal defendant in a homicide case and it's going to be at the forefront of his life for some time to come.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

If an unknown movie set

If 2 unknown personalities were involved, I wonder if we’d even be talking about it. Maybe there would have been one thread, up to 3 pages or so. I doubt there would be 6 threads. It would likely be barely a blip in mainstream media. We only hear a lot about those involving big names. jmo

Accidents on movie and television sets, like stuntmen and stuntwomen being injured during action sequences or actors getting killed when props malfunction, have occurred with some regularity over the last several decades. There have been at least 194 serious television- and film-set accidents in the United States from 1990 to 2014, and at least 43 deaths, according to The Associated Press.

Recent Accidents on TV and Movie Sets (Published 2021)

Accidents on sets have resulted in numerous deaths and injuries over the years, some bringing about lawsuits or changes in safety guidelines.

www.nytimes.com

I think that's very true (that there wouldn't be a Websleuths thread if it weren't a celebrity). In my case, I was already following Alec's career closely after his wife was accused of cultural appropriation, something that interests me. This immersed me in a world of plastic surgery (things I'd never heard of!) and I read Alec's books (buying them used, btw). I was shocked by what I learned. And I hadn't realized how many times he had assaulted various people (and not just paparazzi).

I think that most of us would have been charged in those various assaults (I think he was charged in breaking the nose of a reporter here in SoCal, but cannot remember for sure - I think he may have pleaded to a misdemeanor at that time). I'll go find a link.

Alec Baldwin: A History of the Actor's Arrests and Other Brushes with the Law

Alec Baldwin has a long history of fiery behavior

people.com

He was "acquitted" in that case, according to this article - but that implies a trial or a judicial process. I am not sure the reporter has it right. And since I was living not too far from Kim and Alec's home at the time, it was all over every local news outlet and the broken nose claim seemed true to me. Alec put the full force of his team of lawyers against that photographer (who was on public land at the time Alec assaulted him and the pictures the man was taking were legal to take). I never did understand why Kim and Alec didn't have a garage door opener so that they didn't have to emerge in full public view with newborn Ireland, if they hated being photographed so much - it's what every other L.A. area celeb would do.

MOO.

 

[10ofRods]

So, Alec waived his day in court; pleaded not guilty; no mention of bond; cannot drink or possess firearms. He also may not talk about the case any more.

Baldwin pleads not guilty in film set shooting death

Baldwin's conditions of release include a stipulation stating the actor cannot consume alcohol or possess firearms.

www.santafenewmexican.com

 

[WingsOverTX]

I don’t think there is any giving a pass to AB at this point. You all have made very good points about the lack of gun safety on the set. I do now have to wonder if he’s being made the celebrity scapegoat for the Rust set, and perhaps the entire movie industry. Realizing that MANY movie sets are run safely, but from what I’ve learned here, lax safety is prevalent on just as many, if not more.

Maybe AB will, in fact, do jail time. At a minimum, a felony conviction without jail time.

I would like to see something positive come from this horrific event. Would a safety campaign be effective? Would commercial spots about gun safety featuring AB in prison stripes saying “it could happen to you” be effective? Or would it be trite, cliche, laughable, especially to AB haters?

I don’t know the answers to the above. I feel so sad for Halyna’s family and those injured either physically or emotionally (or both) by the shooting on the Rust set.

But I am also feeling for AB and his family.
He is human.
He looks broken.

It was an accident. Preventable, but still an accident.

jmo

Good points. The problem AB has is his known iffy character & reputation of many years as being verbally abusive, smug.....fill in your preferred adjective.

Why does this matter? Because it goes to state of mind. He may have considered himself "above" safety rules but criminal culpability has been clearly laid out by the prosecutor in NM in this incident.

Feeling sorry for Halyna's family does not bring her back from the dead after being killed in the prime of life.

I'm not really seeing a future for AB in the spotlight due to his own missteps after this event. Private life with a focus on being an excellent parent would be his best legacy going forward should he be able to apply his huge ego to an endeavor with lasting benefit.

MY OPINION ONLY

 

[al66pine]

....

Accidents on movie and television sets, like stuntmen and stuntwomen being injured during action sequences or actors getting killed when props malfunction, have occurred with some regularity over the last several decades. There have been at least 194 serious television- and film-set accidents in the United States from 1990 to 2014, and at least 43 deaths, according to The Associated Press.

Recent Accidents on TV and Movie Sets (Published 2021)

Accidents on sets have resulted in numerous deaths and injuries over the years, some bringing about lawsuits or changes in safety guidelines.

www.nytimes.com

snipped for focus @steeltowngirl
Getting error message w AP link & a pay/subscription wall re NYT.

Other links pls, anyone?