Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[Cymbaline]

Yes, I read that she still had an english accent. I don't remember where I read it, i believe it was a friend of hers.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...t-What-Happened-There&p=11158839#post11158839

I think that might be possible for Siri to misunderstand 4th for 14th but I'm trying to find out if Wertland changes to a different name which Hannah might not have been aware. Also, Hannah still had a British accent after 13 years in the US? I didn't know that.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

IMO, there is no time whatsoever that the public's right to know should take precedence over closely held information needed to locate a missing person or is or may become necessary for the filing of charges, and LE, et al alone is charged with the responsibility of making those determinations.

Everyone has their own opinion. It's just sad when their tactics don't work, and it really makes you (me, that is) wonder. It didn't work with HG; and five years after the death of MH people still don't know what games LE is playing with information and evidence. They may now have caught their perp, but how many have been taken from us in the meantime? I'd rather have HG back than to have LE be in a position to brag that they caught a murderer.

 

[Cymbaline]

Okay, I'm using my iPhone and siri as if i were HG and lost. I spoke this phrase to siri... "lost at 4th" and before i could finish siri cut me off and replied with "I don't know what you mean by Lost at fourth" then siri immediately said "I'd be happy to give you directions. Where would you like to go?" :thinking:

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Evie, you just typed 4th and Wertland when I believe you meant 14th and Wertland which made me wonder. Does Wertland change names at any point? Might Hannah have meant to text she was at 4th and "new name of Wertland" and was lost? I know of many areas where the names of the streets change and wonder if Wertland might do the same?

Sorry about that! I did mean to type 14th, rather than 4th.

I have often wondered if Hannah meant to type 4th & Water, but somehow the auto fill kicked in with a familiar/previously typed location.

 

[Conductor71]

LE agencies are under no obligation to make citizens privy to all the information they have when they are seeking help from them. They are certainly not going to try a case in the media by giving the inquiring public all of their suspicions or knowledge about a situation. Do they sometimes lie to the public? Sure they do, usually more by omission than commission. We as a public feel like we are entitled to know every tidbit they have if LE has the gall to ask us for information or help. I find that ridiculous frankly, and potentially dangerous, but maybe it's just me. JMO

BBM

LE is not obligated to be truthful. It is less about asking for help. They have an inherent bias when it comes to building a case; they can and do fabricate evidence. It is legal. The issue I have is when there is a vast difference in how investigations are conducted and the media is used. When there is a disinformation campaign to this extent where one does not know what to believe any more, it becomes dangerous. In the Alexis Murphy case, the FBI questioned how evidence was handled; a judge even noted that the police could not keep their stories straight. Now the smoke and mirrors involved in pursuing JM... Police who have strong cases do not resort to these tactics, IMO.

What I find dangerous is how easy it is for them to target, bully, or intimidate anyone on the margins of society and ruin lives in the name of "justice". Compare the media circus they created surrounding JM with this investigation from 2012 of one of their own. An Albemarle County officer was arrested after a "thorough investigation" for raping a woman who was compromised (not unlike HG) This investigation is near top secret, and the suspect's attorney, who formally interned with the County prosecutor's office, convinced a judge to block the media from the trial in fear of too much pre-trial publicity. Really??!?

This is when it gets dangerous IMO...as stated by the lawyer in the Alexis Murphy case observed of the LE investigation: "What worries me is they're going so overboard, if they can't find a crime, they'll invent one."

At this point, I do not even believe those "remains" are HG.

Sources:

http://www.readthehook.com/102589/county-cop-arrested-rape-charges-media-blocked
http://www.readthehook.com/108360/l...amily-mourns-suspect-claims-police-harassment

 

[ILOKAL]

Sorry about that! I did mean to type 14th, rather than 4th.

I have often wondered if Hannah meant to type 4th & Water, but somehow the auto fill kicked in with a familiar/previously typed location.

Funny thing is, someone just recently posted a photo of a woman walking an alleyway behind Tempo. The map shows that alleyway with an entrance/exit on Water St. and it goes all the way through and exits/entrance on 4th. This might have been where Hannah was when she sent the text; might be where JLM took her when they exited Tempo on the way to his car.

 

[ILOKAL]

Sorry about that! I did mean to type 14th, rather than 4th.

I have often wondered if Hannah meant to type 4th & Water, but somehow the auto fill kicked in with a familiar/previously typed location.

She may have actually said 4th and Wertland and confused Wertland with Main st.

 

[Conductor71]

Everyone has their own opinion. It's just sad when their tactics don't work, and it really makes you (me, that is) wonder. It didn't work with HG; and five years after the death of MH people still don't know what games LE is playing with information and evidence. They may now have caught their perp, but how many have been taken from us in the meantime? I'd rather have HG back than to have LE be in a position to brag that they caught a murderer.

I think that is a key argument of MH's parents; I think they have always wanted more information to be shared. It was near a cold case from the beginning as it was nearly 40 or so hours before LE took it on as a missing person's case. I think one main reason they withhold so much information is that it is far easier to connect a cold case crime to some other crime or attribute it to someone else years later (not saying this is going on with JM) when so little is known about the case. The more details shared, the narrower the suspect pool becomes, and the less likely LE is to ever solve the case particularly when it is one that is passive or placed on the back burner.

This makes Joe Rader's impassioned plea to the person with information on MH's case that much stranger. He was almost saying that everything would be resolved if one person spoke up, so the flow of info ultimately did not matter anymore. IMO It is almost like he had a strong sense of who was responsible, but felt he could not come forward...at one point he even mentions fear that he and his family would become victims. That letter was for someone specific, I think. I cannot figure out how JM fits in though.

 

[ILOKAL]

Funny thing is, someone just recently posted a photo of a woman walking an alleyway behind Tempo. The map shows that alleyway with an entrance/exit on Water St. and it goes all the way through and exits/entrance on 4th. This might have been where Hannah was when she sent the text; might be where JLM took her when they exited Tempo on the way to his car.

Downtown 4th St between Main St and Water St seems like it would be a very isolated area at night. There are two banks on the north side of the street where the alleyway (behind Tempo's) from Water St exits, neither of which would be open at night, however, I would think there are security cameras around. I hope LE has checked them.

 

[4 Free Speech]

You're absolutely ridiculous, and have been since this case started. No clue what you're even talking about half the time. SMH.

I appreciate the 1st link.... haven't seen that before. I have always wondered if the Route 29/ Corridor 29 Killer could have ben a cop or security guard. Maybe we need another thread for other theories.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Downtown 4th St between Main St and Water St seems like it would be a very isolated area at night. There are two banks on the north side of the street where the alleyway (behind Tempo's) from Water St exits, neither of which would be open at night, however, I would think there are security cameras around. I hope LE has checked them.

I believe the thought is that JM was parked on Water St. LE seems to imply they have video of him in his car, maybe it's from there.

 

[4 Free Speech]

BBM

LE is not obligated to be truthful. It is less about asking for help. They have an inherent bias when it comes to building a case; they can and do fabricate evidence. It is legal. The issue I have is when there is a vast difference in how investigations are conducted and the media is used. When there is a disinformation campaign to this extent where one does not know what to believe any more, it becomes dangerous. In the Alexis Murphy case, the FBI questioned how evidence was handled; a judge even noted that the police could not keep their stories straight. Now the smoke and mirrors involved in pursuing JM... Police who have strong cases do not resort to these tactics, IMO.

What I find dangerous is how easy it is for them to target, bully, or intimidate anyone on the margins of society and ruin lives in the name of "justice". Compare the media circus they created surrounding JM with this investigation from 2012 of one of their own. An Albemarle County officer was arrested after a "thorough investigation" for raping a woman who was compromised (not unlike HG) This investigation is near top secret, and the suspect's attorney, who formally interned with the County prosecutor's office, convinced a judge to block the media from the trial in fear of too much pre-trial publicity. Really??!?

This is when it gets dangerous IMO...as stated by the lawyer in the Alexis Murphy case observed of the LE investigation: "What worries me is they're going so overboard, if they can't find a crime, they'll invent one."

At this point, I do not even believe those "remains" are HG.

Sources:

http://www.readthehook.com/102589/county-cop-arrested-rape-charges-media-blocked
http://www.readthehook.com/108360/l...amily-mourns-suspect-claims-police-harassment

Thank you for the links. I thought it was interesting that officer Sean Horn was also associated with UVA and Liberty as well. Strange how it was swept under the rug..with very little to no media. What was the outcome does anyone know? Does he have any other charges that were ever brought against him? Just curious.

 

[4 Free Speech]

About the end of that video...it sure does look like JM is talking to someone. I've thought that group was heckling/taunting HG...maybe JM was telling them to lay off....

Wow! Thank you for your observations, I never really paid much attention to the very beginning of the video, JLM does seem to pause and wait before he enters the scene also.

Could they be passing drugs/ car keys, or are you certain it's the cell phone and I wonder why someone would pass somebody their cell?

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Thank you for the links. I thought it was interesting that officer Sean Horn was also associated with UVA and Liberty as well. Strange how it was swept under the rug..with very little to no media. What was the outcome does anyone know? Does he have any other charges that were ever brought against him? Just curious.

http://www.readthehook.com/103169/ex-county-officer-pleads-guilty-assault

 

[themom]

I have re-watched this video at quarter speed a few times now, and have a few observations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8WV9wLBzdg

The woman clearly has a cell phone in her right hand. You can see it lit up at :19, so it was going off or was recently used.

It does look like she passes it off to JM. At :23 as she raises her hand the phone can be seen horizontal, meaning it's not laying flat in her hand anymore, but sort of flipped up pointed at JM.

At :27 and :28 can see something black in JM's right hand. At :29 it looks like he may have switched it to his left hand.

Curiously, a video that is suppose to be about Hannah that is 57 seconds long, doesn't show Hannah enter until the :39 mark. . .over 2/3 the way in. That early part of the video was specifically included for significance. MOO

The group behind Hannah wasn't all males. You can clearly see the last person in that group is a woman at :50. There might be another in the middle of the group, but I couldn't figure it out for sure. It's either another woman or a very short man. JM looks to interact with the woman in the back. At the very end before the video is cut off, it looks like she trips. They cut the video there for some reason. I think the males might have had words with JM at that point???

All MOO and my observations.

I really believe that woman passes something to JM, and its suspicious. It's also strange that LE included this part of the video. I think they may have done that to get the women to come forward, just like WG did, since he was in the video, to clear themselves and give information on JM, since they obviously know him. But why haven't they been discussed much at all in the media?

IF they handed something to JM, I think this points to a larger ring or group of evil doers, but cannot imagine a motive to that.
Has there ever been a ring of people doing something nefarious, aside from human trafficking? It can't be trafficking, IMO, bc HG ended up dead.

Unless, as someone mentioned above, LE is hoaxing us all and that wasn't HG they found in the woods, so they can focus on the bigger picture.

JMO/just an idea

 

[Conductor71]

I recall that we had an insider on here a week or so ago before they were vetted by the mods. I cannot find those posts and thought they had some interesting things to say regarding the text messaging. I wanted to share as it relevant to the recent text discussions but do not want to break the rules or spread any misinformation. I think it is okay to say that in general it was shared that the nature/content of the texts changed in a consistent way as the evening wore on and that the confusing "lost at" text was not unusual to friends. I only broach it in that it may help.

Did I dream this? I have searched several threads, but there was active convo out here. Anyone else recall this?

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I recall that we had an insider on here a week or so ago before they were vetted by the mods. I cannot find those posts and thought they had some interesting things to say regarding the text messaging. I wanted to share as it relevant to the recent text discussions but do not want to break the rules or spread any misinformation. I think it is okay to say that in general it was shared that the nature/content of the texts changed in a consistent way as the evening wore on and that the confusing "lost at" text was not unusual to friends. I only broach it in that it may help.

Did I dream this? I have searched several threads, but there was active convo out here. Anyone else recall this?

I don't remember that. When you say the lost text wasn't unusual to friends, did you get the impression that they were saying she may have wandered off alone before and got lost?

 

[Charlie Chan]

Yeah, you aren't lost if you are texting your cross streets from your iPhone. :thinking:

Here is something that I have been wondering......unless I missed something, LE said "she texted friends". Who were those friends. Could she have, in fact, texted Jesse Matthew if she was, indeed , meeting him? There are several assumptions out there of what made JM a "POI".....his car, the video, eye-witness testimony etc. Could she, have in fact, texted JM? To me , "lost" at anyplace when you clearly see the signs means, that, if she really typed those words, she was "lost" because she was in an area with which she was unfamiliar and she had a specific destination in mind. In my mind, (and I know C'ville and the Pedestrian DM well), no one (male, female, young, old etc.) would walk the route that HG took from camput to the DM and she HAD to have a reason for going there and , IMO, it was to meet up with someone because look at the time! No one is going to walk that far to the DM at that time of night (morning) because , even if she was of legal age,everything would be closing!

I hate to say this, but I think (as I did NOT think initially), that HG was meeting up with JM for some reason and that he told her that if she could meet him on the DM, he could give her a ride back to her apartment. Again, all MO. If the above hypothesis is correct, then it would make sense that he had HER meet HIM at the DM.....anonymity of behavior (except for those pesky cameras).

If this hypothesis is correct, then I wonder just what OTHER text messages left HG's phone earlier in the evening......perhaps texts to / from JM about meeting on the DM? Again, just a possible scenario. Back to my original comment......I'm sure that LE has the texts that preceeded the "lost" text and those prior texts may end up being quite significant.

 

[4 Free Speech]

http://www.readthehook.com/103169/ex-county-officer-pleads-guilty-assault

Thank you for the link! I wonder if Officer Sean Horn had to register as a sex offender? It might be interesting to see his address and map it against everything. Oh, where is Otto when I need him?

 

[ThinkHard]

BBM...Respectfully, you could find people in any city in America that would say their PD could be guilty of corruption. Doesn't mean that they are.

Oh I agree!

But I was privy to plenty more detailed reasons for their feelings. I just can't say more because its really just "town gossip" but it is enough to at least make my 'slightly' suspicious. Particularly when it comes to how "calculated" they are handling media.