Happenings of December 26

[UKGuy]

Well there is something we come close to agreeing on. He (they) would have to have anticipated that once the police are called the body would be found. IMO that eliminates all the scenarios in which it was planned to find the body later "returned dead" by the kidnappers.

Chrishope.
The R's staged the wine-cellar crime-scene anticipating that JonBenet would be discovered quickly. This is why their version of events and JonBenet's presentation in the wine-cellar appear to match.

The R's knew full well that their staging might seem nonsensical, i.e. kidnapping with a body in the house, but their main imperative was not to create a seamless crime-scene devoid of inconsistencies. It was to cleanup up the primary crime-scene, remove as much forensic evidence from that crime-scene, and eventually dump some of it into the wine-cellar, i.e that is the really big clue that we are not dealing with a plot that might have an extended timeline, with all this accomplished the R's expected JonBenet to be found and intended to play the ignorance card.

Its that simple, because their options were limited!


.

 

[Chrishope]

Chrishope.
The R's staged the wine-cellar crime-scene anticipating that JonBenet would be discovered quickly. This is why their version of events and JonBenet's presentation in the wine-cellar appear to match.

The R's knew full well that their staging might seem nonsensical, i.e. kidnapping with a body in the house, but their main imperative was not to create a seamless crime-scene devoid of inconsistencies. It was to cleanup up the primary crime-scene, remove as much forensic evidence from that crime-scene, and eventually dump some of it into the wine-cellar, i.e that is the really big clue that we are not dealing with a plot that might have an extended timeline, with all this accomplished the R's expected JonBenet to be found and intended to play the ignorance card.

Its that simple, because their options were limited!


.

That's one way to look at it.

Obviously they had the option of not calling 911 at 05:52, trying to dump the body, and thus have at least a minimally believable kidnap scenario.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

If the R's had dumped JonBenet's body outside, they might have saved a lot of money. Think about all the parent(s) on WS who (probably) killed their child, yet his or her body has never been found. None of those people have spent anywhere near as much $$$ as the R's to stay out of jail, yet they are free too.

 

[Chrishope]

Chrishope.
The R's staged the wine-cellar crime-scene anticipating that JonBenet would be discovered quickly. This is why their version of events and JonBenet's presentation in the wine-cellar appear to match.

OR, the body was simply put there to keep it out of sight until it could be dumped.

The R's knew full well that their staging might seem nonsensical, i.e. kidnapping with a body in the house,

Seriously? They intended to present to the police a nonsensical crime scene?

but their main imperative was not to create a seamless crime-scene devoid of inconsistencies. It was to cleanup up the primary crime-scene, remove as much forensic evidence from that crime-scene, and eventually dump some of it into the wine-cellar, i.e that is the really big clue that we are not dealing with a plot that might have an extended timeline, with all this accomplished the R's expected JonBenet to be found and intended to play the ignorance card.

How is that a clue that we are not dealing with an extended timeline? You mean because they intended that the body would be found, thus destroying the kidnap scenario? IMO it's much more likely he (they) intended to get rid of the body, making the kidnapping scenario plausible.

Its that simple, because their options were limited!
.

Not THAT limited.

 

[UKGuy]

OR, the body was simply put there to keep it out of sight until it could be dumped.

Seriously? They intended to present to the police a nonsensical crime scene?

How is that a clue that we are not dealing with an extended timeline? You mean because they intended that the body would be found, thus destroying the kidnap scenario? IMO it's much more likely he (they) intended to get rid of the body, making the kidnapping scenario plausible.

Not THAT limited.

Chrishope,

OR, the body was simply put there to keep it out of sight until it could be dumped.

That JR decided to find JonBenet suggests no such option was selected.

Seriously? They intended to present to the police a nonsensical crime scene?

Absolutely, they had two options: dump JonBenet outdoors or stage her indoors. For whatever reason the selected the latter. The kidnapping option which you might present as nonsesical or irrational actually carries with it the apparent advantage of time. If JonBenet was simply found in the house in some distressing crime-scene, then its likely the R's would have been arrested on the spot. The kidnapping gives the R's that period of time between the 911 call and the ransom demand time to think and determine how to proceed. So its not quite as nonsensical as it appears.

How is that a clue that we are not dealing with an extended timeline? You mean because they intended that the body would be found, thus destroying the kidnap scenario? IMO it's much more likely he (they) intended to get rid of the body, making the kidnapping scenario plausible.

No the accompanying forensic evidence tells you how ad-hoc this process was. If it had been part of a grand-plan then it would have been separated out. Whereas regardless of your RDI theory, one assumes it had to be dealt with, possibly removed in tandem, with JonBenet thereby simply relocating the same forensic evidence.

Not THAT limited.

Very limited. Two options: indoors or outdoors. Most stagers dump the body outdoors, far away from the primary crime-scene, do a google search on this topic and you will discover the gender and relationship of the killer to the victim in the majority of cases.

That the R's did not go down this route is probably the main reason why they are all free toady.


.

 

[midwest mama]

Well there is something we come close to agreeing on. He (they) would have to have anticipated that once the police are called the body would be found. IMO that eliminates all the scenarios in which it was planned to find the body later "returned dead" by the kidnappers.

So, all the more reason to believe the RN was constructed to be carried out and her body to be removed from the house? And the call to 911 interrupted the plan? Patsy would have to be completely innocent.

If the call to 911 was done purposefully, to have her body discovered by police, did they hand over a RN to police thinking that once the call from the kidnappers did not come the police would begin a full search of the house? But the note gave them an out from that, since it said "tomorrow", which could have meant the 27th. So at that point, the police had begun to regroup and think about how to set up for that. Arndt was left alone, waiting for contacts and backup for what would need to be done.

If Patsy knew JB's body was in the basement and decided to make the call because she couldn't bear to have JR carry out the plan and dispose of JB's body, she was involved in the crime at some time = either from the time JB was killed, or she was brought into it after JB was already dead. From that time forward she made a choice to participate in a cover up.

:banghead::banghead:

 

[ozazure]

I think the plan is a lot more simple. Clean up and obscure what they could and write a note that puts another player in the house, as unlikely as it seems. Add to this the specific amount requested, no forcible entry, and the statement about it being an inside job, they wanted the note writer to sound a bit off their tree identifying themselves as a foreign faction - they know the crime is going to look intimate and bizarre, so they manufacture someone to fit the bill with the note. Why did they choose this plan instead of completely removing JonBenet? Who knows. Maybe they knew about cadaver dogs and didn't want to risk her being in the car. Otherwise you could easily explain going anywhere with instructions in the note telling you to go to a certain location without contacting LE.

How do liars lie? First they have a motive to lie, then they have the confidence to do it, and then they start building the lie with the full expectation that they will need to weave and dodge to maintain it. They do not need a fully fledged plan to launch. There is not time enough in the world to plan a lifetime of lying about your dead daughter in the basement, you do that on your feet.

 

[midwest mama]

UKGuy;9554001 said:

That JR decided to find JonBenet suggests no such option was selected.


Absolutely, they had two options: dump JonBenet outdoors or stage her indoors. For whatever reason the selected the latter. The kidnapping option which you might present as nonsesical or irrational actaully carries with it the apparent advantage of time. If JonBenet was simply found in the house in some distressing crime-scene, then its likely the R's would have been arrested on the spot.

Agreed, at least one of them would have been arrested if she were found that way.

The kidnapping gives the R's that period of time between the 911 call and the ransom demand time to think and determine how to proceed. So its not quite as nonsensical as it appears.

Disagree. With the police involved, how in the world would they then have had any other options but to wait it out as per the note. No options for proceeding any other way once the police were called.

No the accompanying forensic evidence tells you how ad-hoc this process was. If it had been part of a grand-plan then it would have been separated out. Whereas regardless of your RDI theory, one assumes it had to be dealt with, possibly removed in tandem, with JonBenet thereby simply relocating the same forensic evidence.

Not understanding you - unless you mean that the things found in the WC with JB should not have been kept with her body, but disposed of separately, just leaving her body to be dumped?

Very limited. Two options: indoors or outdoors. Most stagers dump the body outdoors, far away from the primary crime-scene, do a google search on this topic and you will discover the gender and relationship of the killer to the victim in the majority of cases.

That the R's did not go down this route is probaly the main reason why they are all free toady.

If the body had been taken outdoors, would have left behind too many forensic tracks, and may have seemed too out of the ordinary with regard to regular Ramsey nighttime activity - but the ransom note provided for this option to be able to be accomplished at a later time, when it could be done with careful attention paid to the forensic trail.

Left indoors and expecting the the police to find her in the house makes for an even more unbelievable option since the RN, which was given to police, clearly provided for her to be missing from the home.

The only option that makes any sense is for the killer to create a complete kidnapping event which allows him/her to carry out the process until the body can be safely removed from the home and disposed of in a manner in which they assumed it could not be easily located. This would have meant the 911 call to police could not have happened until after JR had made a successful delivey of the ransom money according to the RN instructions and then was told a) where he could pick up their dead daughter, or b) they wouldn't be returning her, and had killed her instead, and probably would never find her.

I would have to go with option "a)", because of the attempt to mask the sexual molestation, and the use of the garotte, which lends to the "beheading" aspect. And because it would give the R's an opportunity to be the object of national sympathy and be truly considered victims.

 

[midwest mama]

I think the plan is a lot more simple. Clean up and obscure what they could and write a note that puts another player in the house, as unlikely as it seems. Add to this the specific amount requested, no forcible entry, and the statement about it being an inside job, they wanted the note writer to sound a bit off their tree identifying themselves as a foreign faction - they know the crime is going to look intimate and bizarre, so they manufacture someone to fit the bill with the note. Why did they choose this plan instead of completely removing JonBenet? Who knows. Maybe they knew about cadaver dogs and didn't want to risk her being in the car. Otherwise you could easily explain going anywhere with instructions in the note telling you to go to a certain location without contacting LE.

How do liars lie? First they have a motive to lie, then they have the confidence to do it, and then they start building the lie with the full expectation that they will need to weave and dodge to maintain it. They do not need a fully fledged plan to launch. There is not time enough in the world to plan a lifetime of lying about your dead daughter in the basement, you do that on your feet.

Is is possible the note was created to make it appear to have been written by someone already in the house, who would have been suspected of committing the very crime you describe?

You are so right about people who not only lie, but really believe that their lies are simply their version of truth. A genuine narcissist will not see their error in interpretation of reality as a lie - and will do and say whatever they must to present their interpretation as truth.

They build a lie with the full expectation that anyone else will also see it that way - and are just not capable of understanding why they may not. And they always assume that their own expectation is the way it will be. They are the best at everything they do - at least in their own mind - and woe to the person who questions that. They usually do not expect to fail at convincing others of their versions, and often do not believe it when they do.

 

[WhereAreTheyNow]

So it looks like a last minute wine-cellar crime-scene was fabricated, its apparent purpose to absolve the R's of any participation, and blame a foreign faction for her death.

That JR found JonBenet suggests the R's never had any backup plan in the event of non-discovery. In the majority of crime-scene stagings it is the stager who usually finds the body. Most stagers are unaware of this statistic, but not agencies like the FBI etc.

IMO, The wine cellar wasn't staged but rather appeared to be a trash pile for unwanted evidence. Its contents (especially the blanket and nightgown) and the state of JB's body ('garrote', oversized Bloomies) are inconsistent with the ransom note and/or a plan for JB to be found.

How much would it cost to have someone crawl through a well-hidden, broken window - with no pets or alarm - stuff a child in a conveniently left suitcase and head to the landfill?

So the simple answer is JR wished the process to be brought to some conclusion, so when told to search again he decided to find JonBenet.

Why did he wait so long? Why did his behavior change dramatically after his unexplained absence mid-morning?

Why write a 3-page note? Disregarding clear instructions in the note, why call the police.....and friends......and a priest, at first light? Unless you believe she WON'T be found and you need a theory why no one called between 8:00 and 10:00.

After countless hours of reading this forum it is obvious that many are surgically attached to their theory. (Not specifically related to the quotes above - they were random.) Some even say "There is only ONE logical choice" regarding the ransom note or some other piece of evidence.

If the wine cellar was staged, it wins the most ill-conceived, most illogical and least imaginative awards. This from the creator of a billion dollar business worthy of Lockheed Martin? REALLY??

Is there a surgeon in the house?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy;9554001 said:



Agreed, at least one of them would have been arrested if she were found that way.



Disagree. With the police involved, how in the world would they then have had any other options but to wait it out as per the note. No options for proceeding any other way once the police were called.



Not understanding you - unless you mean that the things found in the WC with JB should not have been kept with her body, but disposed of separately, just leaving her body to be dumped?




If the body had been taken outdoors, would have left behind too many forensic tracks, and may have seemed too out of the ordinary with regard to regular Ramsey nighttime activity - but the ransom note provided for this option to be able to be accomplished at a later time, when it could be done with careful attention paid to the forensic trail.

Left indoors and expecting the the police to find her in the house makes for an even more unbelievable option since the RN, which was given to police, clearly provided for her to be missing from the home.

The only option that makes any sense is for the killer to create a complete kidnapping event which allows him/her to carry out the process until the body can be safely removed from the home and disposed of in a manner in which they assumed it could not be easily located. This would have meant the 911 call to police could not have happened until after JR had made a successful delivey of the ransom money according to the RN instructions and then was told a) where he could pick up their dead daughter, or b) they wouldn't be returning her, and had killed her instead, and probably would never find her.

I would have to go with option "a)", because of the attempt to mask the sexual molestation, and the use of the garotte, which lends to the "beheading" aspect. And because it would give the R's an opportunity to be the object of national sympathy and be truly considered victims.

midwest mama,

Disagree. With the police involved, how in the world would they then have had any other options but to wait it out as per the note. No options for proceeding any other way once the police were called.

Precisely the point I am making. Without a Kidnapping and JonBenet, lets say, posed in her bedroom, then its likely the R's would be arrested on the spot. Although we with 20/20 hindsight can see that the R's staging was amateurish, it was enough to generate plausible deniability, treat them as victims etc.

Not understanding you - unless you mean that the things found in the WC with JB should not have been kept with her body, but disposed of separately, just leaving her body to be dumped?

Yes.

If the body had been taken outdoors, would have left behind too many forensic tracks, and may have seemed too out of the ordinary with regard to regular Ramsey nighttime activity - but the ransom note provided for this option to be able to be accomplished at a later time, when it could be done with careful attention paid to the forensic trail.

Possible.

Left indoors and expecting the the police to find her in the house makes for an even more unbelievable option since the RN, which was given to police, clearly provided for her to be missing from the home.

Agreed. Yet they did proceed with the Kidnapping scenario, as well as dumping other forensic evidence into the wine-cellar, so that aspect was clearly planned.

It appears the R's tossed the dice thinking they were going to be arrested anyway, so lets try the Kidnapping scenario. If JonBenet is not discovered then we can dump her later, and if she is found then we can plead ignorance, since we cleaned up the primary crime-scene?

The only option that makes any sense is for the killer to create a complete kidnapping event which allows him/her to carry out the process until the body can be safely removed from the home and disposed of in a manner in which they assumed it could not be easily located. This would have meant the 911 call to police could not have happened until after JR had made a successful delivey of the ransom money according to the RN instructions and then was told a) where he could pick up their dead daughter, or b) they wouldn't be returning her, and had killed her instead, and probably would never find her.

Assuming this was the plan, why was the ransom note made public and left on the stairs? This action is as contradictory as JonBenet being in the wine-cellar and having a ransom note that claims she is no longer in the house?

I tend to think the R's, alike most of us, cannot predict the future. So they never knew what the outcome was going to be, they simply hoped the police would turn up, do a search and if they found JonBenet and they were arrested, so be it. Otherwise maybe they thought they could dump JonBenet later that day or night?

Of course if that was the plan then why did JR decide to discover JonBenet?


.

 

[Nom de plume]

IMO, The wine cellar wasn't staged but rather appeared to be a trash pile for unwanted evidence. Its contents (especially the blanket and nightgown) and the state of JB's body ('garrote', oversized Bloomies) are inconsistent with the ransom note and/or a plan for JB to be found.

How much would it cost to have someone crawl through a well-hidden, broken window - with no pets or alarm - stuff a child in a conveniently left suitcase and head to the landfill?



Why did he wait so long? Why did his behavior change dramatically after his unexplained absence mid-morning?

Why write a 3-page note? Disregarding clear instructions in the note, why call the police.....and friends......and a priest, at first light? Unless you believe she WON'T be found and you need a theory why no one called between 8:00 and 10:00.

After countless hours of reading this forum it is obvious that many are surgically attached to their theory. (Not specifically related to the quotes above - they were random.) Some even say "There is only ONE logical choice" regarding the ransom note or some other piece of evidence.

If the wine cellar was staged, it wins the most ill-conceived, most illogical and least imaginative awards. This from the creator of a billion dollar business worthy of Lockheed Martin? REALLY??

Is there a surgeon in the house?

:floorlaugh: Nice post WATN!

 

[Chrishope]

Originally Posted by Chrishope [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9553924#post9553924"]

[/ame]
OR, the body was simply put there to keep it out of sight until it could be dumped.

Seriously? They intended to present to the police a nonsensical crime scene?

How is that a clue that we are not dealing with an extended timeline? You mean because they intended that the body would be found, thus destroying the kidnap scenario? IMO it's much more likely he (they) intended to get rid of the body, making the kidnapping scenario plausible.

Not THAT limited.

Chrishope,

OR, the body was simply put there to keep it out of sight until it could be dumped.

That JR decided to find JonBenet suggests no such option was selected.

It doesn't suggest that at all. I thought we agreed that there could be no plan to do anything with the body after the police were called in. Once the call was made, JR's plan to dump the body was destroyed. The body was going to be found at that point, but that does not mean it was originally intended to be found.

Seriously? They intended to present to the police a nonsensical crime scene?

Absolutely, they had two options: dump JonBenet outdoors or stage her indoors. For whatever reason the selected the latter.

OR, the plan to dump the body was interrupted by the unexpected 911 call.

The kidnapping option which you might present as nonsesical or irrational actually carries with it the apparent advantage of time. If JonBenet was simply found in the house in some distressing crime-scene, then its likely the R's would have been arrested on the spot. The kidnapping gives the R's that period of time between the 911 call and the ransom demand time to think and determine how to proceed. So its not quite as nonsensical as it appears.

No, it's just as nonsensical as it appears. It completely destroys the credibility of the kidnap scenario. There is no more or less reason that they should be arrested under either scenario - a sex murder or a kindapping which obviously didn't happen. In either scenario the dead body is in the house and the Ramsey family are the only people known to have been in the house during the night. IMO they ought to have been arrested as soon as the body was found. I don't see how they could reasonably have expected not to be arrested, under either scenario, so I disagree that the RN bought them time.

How is that a clue that we are not dealing with an extended timeline? You mean because they intended that the body would be found, thus destroying the kidnap scenario? IMO it's much more likely he (they) intended to get rid of the body, making the kidnapping scenario plausible.

No the accompanying forensic evidence tells you how ad-hoc this process was. If it had been part of a grand-plan then it would have been separated out. Whereas regardless of your RDI theory, one assumes it had to be dealt with, possibly removed in tandem, with JonBenet
thereby simply relocating the same forensic evidence.

No, the forensic evidence tells me the WC is a dumping spot to put things until they can be dealt with.

I doubt the other bits of evidence would have been removed in tandem, they'd probably have been destroyed.

Not THAT limited.

Very limited. Two options: indoors or outdoors. Most stagers dump the body outdoors, far away from the primary crime-scene, do a google search on this topic and you will discover the gender and relationship of the killer to the victim in the majority of cases.

I meant not so limited that they had to present a nonsensical crime scene. But I agree, they had to either have the body in the house, or remove it. There was no possibility of removal after the 911 call, and I believe we agree that finding the body had to be anticipated. Why then write a RN? Why not a revenge note? Or if it's supposed to be a random pedo attack by a boogeyman intruder, why any note at all.

The RN strongly indicates he (they) were trying to explain JB's disappearance as a kidnapping. A kidnapping is implausible with the body in the house.

That the R's did not go down this route is probably the main reason why they are all free toady.

I think the main reason is Alex Hunter along with a badly conducted investigation.

 

[Chrishope]

So, all the more reason to believe the RN was constructed to be carried out and her body to be removed from the house? And the call to 911 interrupted the plan? Patsy would have to be completely innocent.

That's how I see it.

If the call to 911 was done purposefully, to have her body discovered by police, did they hand over a RN to police thinking that once the call from the kidnappers did not come the police would begin a full search of the house? But the note gave them an out from that, since it said "tomorrow", which could have meant the 27th. So at that point, the police had begun to regroup and think about how to set up for that. Arndt was left alone, waiting for contacts and backup for what would need to be done.

IMO, once the police were called, the killer(s)/stager(s) had to anticipate the body would be found. Despite "tomorrow" being logically the 27th, there was no chance that police were leaving, nor that the body wouldn't be found. I think "tomorrow" buys JR time, and is meant to deceive PR, not the police.

If Patsy knew JB's body was in the basement and decided to make the call because she couldn't bear to have JR carry out the plan and dispose of JB's body, she was involved in the crime at some time = either from the time JB was killed, or she was brought into it after JB was already dead. From that time forward she made a choice to participate in a cover up.

:banghead::banghead:

I'm not sure why PR would be reluctant to dump the body. If she was in on the killing, she'd rather dump the body than go to prison. If she came into the plot later, as a co-conspirator in a cover-up, she'd know dumping the body was necessary given the kidnap scenario. She'd also know for certain that she and JR would be prime suspects once the body was found. In for a penny, in for a pound. I don't see PR being involved to any degree without agreeing that the body would be dumped. Besides, as I've pointed out on these boards before, Christians take a dimmer view of murder than improper burial. Once one has committed the ultimate sin, why worry about proper burial?

 

[Chrishope]

IMO, The wine cellar wasn't staged but rather appeared to be a trash pile for unwanted evidence.

That's how it looks to me.

Its contents (especially the blanket and nightgown) and the state of JB's body ('garrote', oversized Bloomies) are inconsistent with the ransom note and/or a plan for JB to be found.

Exactly. All the evidence in the WC is inconsistent with the RN simply because none of it should be present in the WC. It's equally inconsistent with the plan to allow the body to be found there because whey would a "kidnapping gone bad" involve redressing at all, let alone in odd size bloomies?

How much would it cost to have someone crawl through a well-hidden, broken window - with no pets or alarm - stuff a child in a conveniently left suitcase and head to the landfill?

A lot I suspect.

Why did he wait so long? Why did his behavior change dramatically after his unexplained absence mid-morning?

Why write a 3-page note? Disregarding clear instructions in the note, why call the police.....and friends......and a priest, at first light? Unless you believe she WON'T be found and you need a theory why no one called between 8:00 and 10:00.

After countless hours of reading this forum it is obvious that many are surgically attached to their theory. (Not specifically related to the quotes above - they were random.) Some even say "There is only ONE logical choice" regarding the ransom note or some other piece of evidence.

If the wine cellar was staged, it wins the most ill-conceived, most illogical and least imaginative awards. This from the creator of a billion dollar business worthy of Lockheed Martin? REALLY??

Is there a surgeon in the house?

 

[Chrishope]

UKGuy;9554001 said:



Agreed, at least one of them would have been arrested if she were found that way.



Disagree. With the police involved, how in the world would they then have had any other options but to wait it out as per the note. No options for proceeding any other way once the police were called.



Not understanding you - unless you mean that the things found in the WC with JB should not have been kept with her body, but disposed of separately, just leaving her body to be dumped?




If the body had been taken outdoors, would have left behind too many forensic tracks, and may have seemed too out of the ordinary with regard to regular Ramsey nighttime activity - but the ransom note provided for this option to be able to be accomplished at a later time, when it could be done with careful attention paid to the forensic trail.

Left indoors and expecting the the police to find her in the house makes for an even more unbelievable option since the RN, which was given to police, clearly provided for her to be missing from the home.

The only option that makes any sense is for the killer to create a complete kidnapping event which allows him/her to carry out the process until the body can be safely removed from the home and disposed of in a manner in which they assumed it could not be easily located. This would have meant the 911 call to police could not have happened until after JR had made a successful delivey of the ransom money according to the RN instructions and then was told a) where he could pick up their dead daughter, or b) they wouldn't be returning her, and had killed her instead, and probably would never find her.

I would have to go with option "a)", because of the attempt to mask the sexual molestation, and the use of the garotte, which lends to the "beheading" aspect. And because it would give the R's an opportunity to be the object of national sympathy and be truly considered victims.

Exactly!

 

[Chrishope]

midwest mama,

Precisely the point I am making. Without a Kidnapping and JonBenet, lets say, posed in her bedroom, then its likely the R's would be arrested on the spot. Although we with 20/20 hindsight can see that the R's staging was amateurish, it was enough to generate plausible deniability, treat them as victims etc.


Yes.


Possible.


Agreed. Yet they did proceed with the Kidnapping scenario, as well as dumping other forensic evidence into the wine-cellar, so that aspect was clearly planned.

It appears the R's tossed the dice thinking they were going to be arrested anyway, so lets try the Kidnapping scenario. If JonBenet is not discovered then we can dump her later, and if she is found then we can plead ignorance, since we cleaned up the primary crime-scene?


Assuming this was the plan, why was the ransom note made public and left on the stairs? This action is as contradictory as JonBenet being in the wine-cellar and having a ransom note that claims she is no longer in the house?

It is contradictory, and so, as with the body in the basement we need to ask why they'd do something contradictory. The answer of course is that PR called 911, at that point there is no chance at all to keep the note private. It was not made public deliberately. It was left on the stairs for PR to find.

[/qutoe]

I tend to think the R's, alike most of us, cannot predict the future. So they never knew what the outcome was going to be, they simply hoped the police would turn up, do a search and if they found JonBenet and they were arrested, so be it.

I tend to think the Rs, like most of us, want to avoid prison, and would stage something believable, rather than rolling the dice on a nonsensical crime scene.

Otherwise maybe they thought they could dump JonBenet later that day or night?

No, once the cops are called there will never be a chance to do anything with the body (except perhaps to relocate it within the basement) and the culprit(s) would have had to anticipate that.

Of course if that was the plan then why did JR decide to discover JonBenet?

Because there could have been no plan to dump the body after the 911 call. It had to be done prior to calling the police.


.[/quote]

 

[UKGuy]

It is contradictory, and so, as with the body in the basement we need to ask why they'd do something contradictory. The answer of course is that PR called 911, at that point there is no chance at all to keep the note private. It was not made public deliberately. It was left on the stairs for PR to find.

[/qutoe]



I tend to think the Rs, like most of us, want to avoid prison, and would stage something believable, rather than rolling the dice on a nonsensical crime scene.



No, once the cops are called there will never be a chance to do anything with the body (except perhaps to relocate it within the basement) and the culprit(s) would have had to anticipate that.



Because there could have been no plan to dump the body after the 911 call. It had to be done prior to calling the police.


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[/QUOTE]

Chrishope,

It is contradictory, and so, as with the body in the basement we need to ask why they'd do something contradictory. The answer of course is that PR called 911, at that point there is no chance at all to keep the note private. It was not made public deliberately. It was left on the stairs for PR to find.

So three RDI theories present inconsistencies. Why was it left for PR to find, who mandated that the success of the plan rested on PR finding the ransom note, why not BR or JR?

So JR tosses the RN on the stairs and goes back to bed, duh!


If JR had executed that plan successfully he would have been designated immediately as the prime suspect.


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[UKGuy]

That's one way to look at it.

Obviously they had the option of not calling 911 at 05:52, trying to dump the body, and thus have at least a minimally believable kidnap scenario.

Chrishope,
In all three variants of the RDI kidnapping theories, the R's failed to follow through, e.g. not dumped outdoors, not left in wine-cellar, i.e. discovered.

So either the theories are incorrect in part in their assumptions, or the R's made irrational decisions?

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[InstantProof]

Maybe the main objective that day was to have someone else find her, to distance themselves from the crime in that way. After being asked to search his own house a few times, John had to find her or risk looking suspicious. As for the ransom note, it couldn't say she was dead in the basement because that still leaves the parents to find her themselves, and no note leaves no other suspects.