Harley in the Hangar: Chop Shop?

[Snoofo]

I've seen one photo of DM with a motorcycle behind him. I got the impression it wasn't related to the photo, just happened to be behind him, and it made me think of France. But that's JMO as I quickly passed it looking for another pic. Silver/black touring type IIRC.

Here's AS's comment concerning what he thought at the time about the subject you're asking about.

.........“I thought he was just a spoilt little brat who had his way all his life and didn’t appreciate what his father was doing for him,” said Mr. Sharif. “He was an impediment to the hangar operation” who didn’t meet his deadlines, almost never arrived at work before noon, and refused to clear his collection of cars, jeeps, hot rods, jet skis and personal airplanes from the business premises.................

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...bosma-murder-suspect-started-to-dismantle-it/

Take note where Sharif's quotation ends. No source specified for the balance of the sentence even though we know reporter spoke with unknown sources at the airport. Also doesnt mentioned whose request to remove cars DM refused.

This was pointed out by another sleuth when the article came out and was discussed. Since it came up I thought this quote end was worth mentioning again.

 

[Juballee]

In my opinion, the opinions stated by AS sound like a disgruntled employee who might have been a little resentful that at that he didn't have a collection of cars, jeeps, hot rods, jet skis and personal airplanes at 27, and was made subordinate to someone his junior who had those things. Are there other media reports of friends or acquaintances or co-workers calling DM a spoiled brat (other than on forums), or was that just his opinion after he was fired or laid off? Also, did all the cars and planes at the hanger belong to DM at the time, or were some (perhaps most) belonging to the collection CM had amassed? Because at this point, AS seems to be putting all the blame on DM for the hanger's toy collection, which could show a propensity for exaggeration in my opinion. And you know, if I had murdered someone and wanted to get rid to the evidence and had at my disposal both an incinerator and a personal airplane, I would have dumped the ashes out of a plane over Lake Ontario.

 

[Archangel7]

I doubt AS cared where the cars, etc. came from. He simply needed them out of the business area in order to conduct tours of the MRO with potential contract issuers. This would allow finalizing of contracts.

I think it's ridiculous for DM to assume any or some corporate airline would or even could(by law) do business with a company with obvious security issues, safety issues, etc., etc.
jmo

 

[Archangel7]

Take note where Sharif's quotation ends. No source specified for the balance of the sentence even though we know reporter spoke with unknown sources at the airport. Also doesnt mentioned whose request to remove cars DM refused.

This was pointed out by another sleuth when the article came out and was discussed. Since it came up I thought this quote end was worth mentioning again.

The punctuation doesn't change the issue around contract negotiations and that very conversation with DM. The one with AS about no final signing of signatures until a tour of the MRO. Which brings us back to the cluttered hangar.

We've heard mention, seen the stuff in the hangar, police have found stolen stuff in the hangar and we've heard that was a problem for finalizing income.
moo

 

[Curiositykitten]

According to the original article, the Harley was stolen on November 21, 2012. It was purchased used because he went to the States to buy it that previous summer. (Depending how you read "last year", I assume it means the summer of 2012.)



http://www.torontosun.com/2013/02/08/more-to-snowstorm-than-traffic-chaos

It was also November when AS had the meeting with DM.



http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/31/millard-aviation-business-in-decline-long-before-tim-bosma-murder-suspect-started-to-dismantle-it/

I guess November was a busy month.

And NOvember 29 when Wayne Millard was found dead.

 

[Sillybilly]

In my opinion, the opinions stated by AS sound like a disgruntled employee who might have been a little resentful that at that he didn't have a collection of cars, jeeps, hot rods, jet skis and personal airplanes at 27, and was made subordinate to someone his junior who had those things. Are there other media reports of friends or acquaintances or co-workers calling DM a spoiled brat (other than on forums), or was that just his opinion after he was fired or laid off?

<rsbm>

You might want to check back through the threads wrt the background of AS. He was not a disgruntled employee of Millard Air. He owns his own aviation maintenance consulting company in the USA, was past owner of another aerotechnic consulting company, and was previously VP of marketing and senior director of a 1600 acre air center in Arizona.

 

[Juballee]

Are you suggesting that he was not employed by Millardair or that he is still employed by them? In my opinion, from personal experience, it doesn't matter if you own a big company or are just an low level employee, anyone can be disgruntled when fired, terminated or laid off from a project. Again, my opinion only, but to call your former employer names suggests some animosity that is unprofessional to say the least. The only pictures that I recall from the interior of the Waterloo hanger show it looking reasonably clean, actually somewhat like a showroom for the vehicles and equipment stored there. Was AS going to bring in potential clients to view it without any notice, or would WM and DM have had a day or two to move any unsightly items to a storage locker should the clients wish to view the hanger in person?

 

[Blomquist]

Are you suggesting that he was not employed by Millardair or that he is still employed by them? In my opinion, from personal experience, it doesn't matter if you own a big company or are just an low level employee, anyone can be disgruntled when fired, terminated or laid off from a project. Again, my opinion only, but to call your former employer names suggests some animosity that is unprofessional to say the least. The only pictures that I recall from the interior of the Waterloo hanger show it looking reasonably clean, actually somewhat like a showroom for the vehicles and equipment stored there. Was AS going to bring in potential clients to view it without any notice, or would WM and DM have had a day or two to move any unsightly items to a storage locker should the clients wish to view the hanger in person?

And of course, similarly when selling a house one usually has some notice to view. Also even if there were cars etc in the hangar during viewing I do not see how this prevents a showing of the hangar. As you said, the hangar did looked reasonably clean, so any prospective renter would/could have been told that the hangar would be empty/cleared upon the new lease commencing IMO. Also IMO ....AS was definitely disgruntled IMO. MOO

 

[swanna]

<rsbm>

You might want to check back through the threads wrt the background of AS. He was not a disgruntled employee of Millard Air. He owns his own aviation maintenance consulting company in the USA, was past owner of another aerotechnic consulting company, and was previously VP of marketing and senior director of a 1600 acre air center in Arizona.

I googled AS and did some research and yes the bolded statement is correct he was VP of Marketing for a company in Arizona from 2001 - 2005 which means he was an employee for this company he worked for. Also he does own his own consulting firm now which also IMO means he was hired by Millardair. This would be a paycheck for him so IMO I would think that he would or could be disgruntled. Maybe missing something feel free to let me Know. :twocents:

 

[Alethea Dice]

Are you suggesting that he was not employed by Millardair or that he is still employed by them? In my opinion, from personal experience, it doesn't matter if you own a big company or are just an low level employee, anyone can be disgruntled when fired, terminated or laid off from a project. Again, my opinion only, but to call your former employer names suggests some animosity that is unprofessional to say the least. The only pictures that I recall from the interior of the Waterloo hanger show it looking reasonably clean, actually somewhat like a showroom for the vehicles and equipment stored there. Was AS going to bring in potential clients to view it without any notice, or would WM and DM have had a day or two to move any unsightly items to a storage locker should the clients wish to view the hanger in person?

I can't imagine his public rant will help him much with future contracts either.

I haven't seen many pictures inside the Waterloo hangar, but in those I've seen, it's been pretty clean and bare. A couple of small planes and a helicopter. The car pictures were all from Pearson.

JMO

 

[JPC]

I googled AS and did some research and yes the bolded statement is correct he was VP of Marketing for a company in Arizona from 2001 - 2005 which means he was an employee for this company he worked for. Also he does own his own consulting firm now which also IMO means he was hired by Millardair. This would be a paycheck for him so IMO I would think that he would or could be disgruntled. Maybe missing something feel free to let me Know. :twocents:

Either way, most large businesses have Confidentiality Agreements in place with contract employees as well as Consultants. From a corporate communications perspective, there didn't seem to be this type of strategy in place. JMO

 

[Carli]

Either way, most large businesses have Confidentiality Agreements in place with contract employees as well as Consultants. From a corporate communications perspective, there didn't seem to be this type of strategy in place. JMO

Quite so. Even in the absence of such an agreement, imo the dictates of common sense would prevent most independent consultants from publically dissing their clients. MOO.

 

[Carli]

The executive would't likely have seen the disassembled Harley inside an enclosed trailer during a walk thru of the hangar. Not even the police know they are stolen until effort is put forth to run serial numbers and VINs.

The Harley was stolen in October of 2012,
(see post #1)http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2013/05/20130530-065940.html WM obit is mid Dec. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/thestar/obituary.aspx?pid=161695472#fbLoggedOut

The police would know who is on the trailer registration and have either already determined culpability or they are continuing to work back from there.

There is a paper trail on how the incinerator was purchased and it had to be verified by the OEM prior to release unless paid for in cash. http://www.supernovamfg.com/faq.html

Also the incinerator delivery conditions will likely reveal at least who, when, and how.
moo

While the manufacturer may have specific terms for purchase verification, do we know if the Canadian distributor uses the same template? Actually, I'm not sure which tree we're barking up here, or why, but IMO if someone had placed a purchase order on behalf of MillardAir and paid with a company CC, I'm reasonably sure it would pass muster with any supplier. Would they truly be checking to see if the company owners have enough cash in personal accounts to cover the purchase? Quite improbable imo. MOO.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Verifying any cheque or credit card payments could simply mean that the payment has to go through successfully before they will ship the product.

According to MSM, the salesman has already confirmed that the purchase was handled by an employee.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/chilling-details-emerge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/

 

[Snoofo]

I googled AS and did some research and yes the bolded statement is correct he was VP of Marketing for a company in Arizona from 2001 - 2005 which means he was an employee for this company he worked for. Also he does own his own consulting firm now which also IMO means he was hired by Millardair. This would be a paycheck for him so IMO I would think that he would or could be disgruntled. Maybe missing something feel free to let me Know. :twocents:

Thanks swanna this got me thinking. It's a paycheque for him and all the other executives, experts who liked the sounds of Wayne's big plans as they would be part of it and they would be paid. Wayne was the one taking all the risk, probably not paying himself along the way. Wayne was frugal with himself and generous to others. I'm not trying to discredit these guys, but they were asked to be part of something big and if for a moment they questioned the project, the enormity of the project and mostly the dollars coming their way in the time being may have kept them quiet. Really JMO.

By 2012, Wayne had hired a team of Canadian aviation veterans, brought in Mr. Sharif to drum up international business, and signed a 50-year lease for the land on which the 50,000 square foot hangar now stands. Millardair won the support of the local airport authority and convinced the Waterloo regional council to invest in runway improvements to accommodate larger jets. When things went over budget, bank loans provided funding for the tools and staff needed to obtain key Transport Canada certification, which came through on November 1, 2012, just before Wayne’s death.

Loans? I would imagine with no actual business running from the property a guarantee might be required too (a wild but educated guess). Shareholders or maybe just the one with the greater assets (my bet is that is DM) might have to guarantee these loans and is certainly the one that has to answer to the Bank things like why hasn't the business taken off? where is its revenue? The bank doesn't just hand money over, even to rich people, believe me (at least not in Canada!). WM may have just poured all he had into the hangar and who knows what he'd done with the rest if there was any more (charitable man that he was may have donated it). If this were the case then DM darn well had better look at the business deal a little closer because not only will his father lose everything if these big plans cause the company to go bankrupt, but so would DM personally (imo). With so many experts on the payroll, you'd think someone would have warned them sooner? (btw, this is JMO!). Possibly, DM thought his father and his panel of experts had this all under control and once he caught wind of the damage, stepped in to confront AS. Possibly, WM was the "innocent dupe" all along.

AS has an expertise, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't be wrong about this project. He probably doesn't know Ontario and the Waterloo Regional Airport. His semi-negotiated contracts may not have been that promising but it wouldn't have been in his interest to take a step back if he can invoice Millardair a few more times anyway (MOO!). Maybe he was wrong to encourage them to proceed even after they realized they had no money left and no business to show for it, but it is easier to blame the irresponsible son now that he's locked up and the world thinks he's evil? Why did other experts see it so differently than AS?

This other executive knows the Region well and doesn't stand to win or lose anything. Let's pay attention to what he says:

The venture was not for the faint of heart and not everyone believed it could succeed. One senior executive at an Ontario-based flight-training company, who did not want his name published, was touring on his motorbike one day last fall when he spotted the new hangar and pulled in to take a closer look. “It was empty, not a soul around, no cars. I was scratching my head and thinking I’m not getting this,” he said. “I just can’t see a business model that makes sense for a hangar of that size at that airport despite what they may have said to the airport authority.”

The doubts the executive expressed were similar to those raised by Dellen Millard in his steakhouse meeting with Mr. Sharif.

This made me think that just because I'm clueless about the aviation business, why should I, or anyone else, assume that Dellen was such a moron for not going along with AS any further? Could it be that he realized AS was wrong and they are not just out of money but totally in debt with no prospect for recovery? Why would the consultant steer him in the wrong direction? At the very least simply because AS believed in the advice; or, maybe AS himself realized at some point that a) this hangar project was way too ambitious, maybe not such a good idea anymore; and b) contracts aren't as promising as expected for a hangar of this size. (Maybe DM had an epiphany while doing the payroll one day realizing that while his frugal father wasn't keeping anything for himself (TOTALLY MOO) they were signing away lots and lots of paycheques to the consultants and veterans he recruited.)

I'm not trying to make AS out to be a villain, but let's say he was only looking out for No. 1 and this was an opportune moment to deflect the blame for failure.

100% pure :moo:

 

[Alethea Dice]

Thanks swanna this got me thinking. It's a paycheque for him and all the other executives, experts who liked the sounds of Wayne's big plans as they would be part of it and they would be paid. Wayne was the one taking all the risk, probably not paying himself along the way. Wayne was frugal with himself and generous to others. I'm not trying to discredit these guys, but they were asked to be part of something big and if for a moment they questioned the project, the enormity of the project and mostly the dollars coming their way in the time being may have kept them quiet. Really JMO.



Loans? I would imagine with no actual business running from the property a guarantee might be required too (a wild but educated guess). Shareholders or maybe just the one with the greater assets (my bet is that is DM) might have to guarantee these loans and is certainly the one that has to answer to the Bank things like why hasn't the business taken off? where is its revenue? The bank doesn't just hand money over, even to rich people, believe me (at least not in Canada!). WM may have just poured all he had into the hangar and who knows what he'd done with the rest if there was any more (charitable man that he was may have donated it). If this were the case then DM darn well had better look at the business deal a little closer because not only will his father lose everything if these big plans cause the company to go bankrupt, but so would DM personally (imo). With so many experts on the payroll, you'd think someone would have warned them sooner? (btw, this is JMO!). Possibly, DM thought his father and his panel of experts had this all under control and once he caught wind of the damage, stepped in to confront AS. Possibly, WM was the "innocent dupe" all along.

AS has an expertise, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't be wrong about this project. He probably doesn't know Ontario and the Waterloo Regional Airport. His semi-negotiated contracts may not have been that promising but it wouldn't have been in his interest to take a step back if he can invoice Millardair a few more times anyway (MOO!). Maybe he was wrong to encourage them to proceed even after they realized they had no money left and no business to show for it, but it is easier to blame the irresponsible son now that he's locked up and the world thinks he's evil? Why did other experts see it so differently than AS?

This other executive knows the Region well and doesn't stand to win or lose anything. Let's pay attention to what he says:



This made me think that just because I'm clueless about the aviation business, why should I, or anyone else, assume that Dellen was such a moron for not going along with AS any further? Could it be that he realized AS was wrong and they are not just out of money but totally in debt with no prospect for recovery? Why would the consultant steer him in the wrong direction? At the very least simply because AS believed in the advice; or, maybe AS himself realized at some point that a) this hangar project was way too ambitious, maybe not such a good idea anymore; and b) contracts aren't as promising as expected for a hangar of this size. (Maybe DM had an epiphany while doing the payroll one day realizing that while his frugal father wasn't keeping anything for himself (TOTALLY MOO) they were signing away lots and lots of paycheques to the consultants and veterans he recruited.)

I'm not trying to make AS out to be a villain, but let's say he was only looking out for No. 1 and this was an opportune moment to deflect the blame for failure.

100% pure :moo:

I totally agree. I commented on this quite some time ago. Not everyone thought it was a good idea. To DM, it may have been better to get 20 cents on the dollar than nothing at all. One of the financial backers had bailed and with it the fuel contract. I don't remember reading that there were even any semi-negotiated contracts. The hangar construction was finished in February. The certification took until November to come in. There should have been some conditional contracts lined up at least by then - conditional on the certification and that the hangar be empty and ready to go.

JMO

 

[Snoofo]

I totally agree. I commented on this quite some time ago. Not everyone thought it was a good idea. To DM, it may have been better to get 20 cents on the dollar than nothing at all. One of the financial backers had bailed and with it the fuel contract. I don't remember reading that there were even any semi-negotiated contracts. The hangar construction was finished in February. The certification took until November to come in. There should have been some conditional contracts lined up at least by then - conditional on the certification and that the hangar be empty and ready to go.

JMO

Might be a good time to revisit the withdrawal of financial backing now that competition info is unveiled. I wonder if there is a co-relation there?

I cant for the life of me recall the source of the financial backer withdrawal. Was it MSM or an aviation chatroom? I only recall this info came early in our timeline.

Help!

 

[Snoofo]

And should be moved to general discussion thread once found, as it doesnt belong here.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Might be a good time to revisit the withdrawal of financial backing now that competition info is unveiled. I wonder if there is a co-relation there?

I cant for the life of me recall the source of the financial backer withdrawal. Was it MSM or an aviation chatroom? I only recall this info came early in our timeline.

Help!

I think it was in the aviation chatroom. I'll see what I can find.

 

[Sillybilly]

I think it was in the aviation chatroom. I'll see what I can find.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9460124&postcount=702"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Canada -Timothy Bosma, 32, Hamilton Ontario, 6 May 2013 - #7 **ARREST**[/ame]


hth