Harvard Professor Arrested--Gates Black in America

[janedoe]

Did anyone already post that the woman was not even a neighbor but some woman out on a lunch break?

 

[southcitymom]

It is settled law, in a Supreme Court case decided in 1987, that:

the First Amendment protects a significant amount of verbal criticism and challenge directed at police officers. "Speech is often provocative and challenging. . . . [But it] is nevertheless protected against censorship or punishment, unless shown likely to produce a clear and present danger of a serious substantive evil that rises far above public inconvenience, annoyance, or unrest."

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...=482&invol=451

It seems to me that any veteran police officer (and one who teaches classes about racial profiling at that) should know that saying Pig or yo mama or This is an outrage is protected speech.

This was no case of "clear and present danger or serious substantive evil"- it was just public inconvenience (at a very minor level), annoyance (to the cop), and as for unrest, I dunno. The small crowd gathered to watch Gates' humiliation didn't seem to jump into action. The policeman made a mistake, which he shouldn't have. Gates took umbrage, as he was legally entitled to. Police aren't supposed to arrest people for hurting their feelings, or swearing at them, or even insulting their lovely mothers.

What happened here was a case of a cop overstepping his authority.

Will anyone tell me why Professor Gates was a danger or an evil in this case? He was just a citizen, grumpy about being dissed by a cop. And if Sgt Crowley was afraid of a frail man 20 years his senior...Well.
Yes, and ideally, Prof Gates should have just kept his yap shut and it would have all ended quickly and well. But he didn't do anything illegal or even wrong.

Great post! Gates was acting like an and police officers deal with that all the time....do they arrest people for acting like asses?....YES! Should they?....NO!

In any event, that's why I think both men had a hand in the escalation of this conflict.

Maybe now that Obama has invited them to the WH for a beer, they can chill out and work it out.

 

[Brwnigirl]

Your right there are many people that continue to be racist. I never said that racism didn't exist. Sure people of all colors us their looks and education to their advantage. But you never hear a white man screaming that he was arrested because he is white. Gates was arrested because he wouldn't cooperate not because of the color of his skin. Yet he is claiming he was arrested soley because of the color of his skin. He won't admit that his actions had anything to do with it. That is why the issues of skin color will never die.

Perhaps the reason you never see a white man saying he was arrested for being white is because it never happens and never has!

White men don't have the historical experiences that Blacks do of being arrested, jailed and convicted based on their color.

 

[shana]

If anything, this case will hopefully enlighten some about the Sensitivity Factor...be it experienced from the perspective of an elder African-American or from that of an officer doing his job as he saw fit.

I'm hoping cooler heads will prevail, in the end...and grant some forgiveness and resolution on both sides.

Yeah, I hope for a lot.

Peace

 

[hockeymom]

I don't think Gates was arrested for being black. I think he was arrested for being a pompous,arrogant,a**. I think his atitude comes more from being a Harvard professor than being of color.

 

[lilacwine]

Did anyone already post that the woman was not even a neighbor but some woman out on a lunch break?

No, I hadn't heard that but the conferences don't call the person specifically a neighbor.. they just say "a call came in"...


but I have heard (2) interviews with neighbors who say they witnessed the disorderly conduct and both support the police officer's account and say that Gates failed to heed warnings.
Neither of the neighbors would go on camera.


Profiling happens... but I don't think it happened here..... EVERYONE who talks about this case seems torn up about it....

I wish we could learn from it and heal.

 

[oh_gal]

It is settled law, in a Supreme Court case decided in 1987, that:



Will anyone tell me why Professor Gates was a danger or an evil in this case? He was just a citizen, grumpy about being dissed by a cop. And if Sgt Crowley was afraid of a frail man 20 years his senior...Well.
Yes, and ideally, Prof Gates should have just kept his yap shut and it would have all ended quickly and well. But he didn't do anything illegal or even wrong.

(respectfully snipped by me)

Ummmm........because for all the police officer knew, Gates could have had a loaded shotgun or some other weapon within easy reach...

You know if I were a policeman, and some man was ranting and raving about ....."You're a racist....Don't you know who I am?" over and over and over again, YES, I would be concerned that he's about to (further) go off, half-cocked, and start shooting the place up. AND I would have arrested him.

Guess it's a good thing I'm not in LE.

 

[Moe]

One of the best lessons my daddy taught me, if you have an encounter with an officer simply repeat over and over "yes officer, thank you officer and so forth". Fortunately I've never been arrested, but if I was it would not be for being uncooperative. Professor Gates should have listened to my dad.

 

[Morrison]

The irony is Obama is getting a tatse of what a white cop gets inths society. Anytime you open your mouth you are subject to criticism and called a racist. Time he learned to do his job and not use his office to take care of his friends.

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello WS

I know we are all just talking, venting and speculating: that's what I'm here for too ...but I have to say if ever there was a "trap" story: this is it. I voted for Obama(and cried the day he was sworn in, like a baby)but I do not think he is perfect. He is a politician. I don't know what he was thinking giving his two cents on this one...

And, there is nothing more respectable to me than a honest police officer. Heroes ALL. But...I do not think that just because someone says they are sensitive to how it feels to be another "race" in America: that that is true.

In the book "To Kill a Mockingbird" Atticus Finch says that it does not matter who they pick on a jury because no one knows what is truly in another person's heart. The Professor may not see himself as someone who is damaged and angry about being black in America and the Police officer may not be aware of his own deep issues regarding being white in America.

Both are not the worst we have going on in our world: and I think both sides should let this one go and chalk it up to having learned a lesson. If Japanese soldiers and American soldiers from WWII can forgive each other(and they have: special report on CBS evening news)then I think this is a good opportunity to get over the black/white stuff. This is what America is all about and its cool that there is a non violent debate that can go on but I hope we move past this soon.

Bless America: Land of the Free. Home of the Brave. It takes everyone of us to make the dream that is America. :blowkiss:

...jmo...

 

[lilacwine]

I have really appreciated the respectful tone of this dialogue. As I stated earlier, I teach a class on the history of intolerance in America examining the many groups who have been and/or are victims of discrimination.

How great is it to have been able to have such a respectful dialogue on this subject on this board from posters with different experiences.

I am having a total warm fuzzy for ws

 

[southcitymom]

Hurray for Gates for backing off of his attitude about "the incident" thus far and for his conciliatory words! http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/gates-says-100597.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

"I told the president that my principal regret was that all of the attention paid to his deeply supportive remarks during his press conference had distracted attention from his health care initiative," Gates said. "I am pleased that he, too, is eager to use my experience as a teaching moment, and if meeting Sgt. Crowley for a beer with the President will further that end, then I would be happy to oblige."

It was a marked change in tone for Gates, 58, who in the days following his arrest gathered up his legal team and said he was contemplating a lawsuit.

Mad props for seeing through his anger to some reason and agreeing to having a beer with Crowley. Very cool. Also awesome that Obama's change of tone paved the way.

 

[Annie]

Gates says this isn't about him at all and he will use it to improve fairness in the criminal justice system. I disagree. It IS about him. If he had behaved himself and had not started using the race card when it had nothing to do with profiling black men, this would never have happened. He is trying to use this for his cause which is a just one, but this does not apply. A neighbor called because someone was seen breaking into his house and LE responded. I can't see that his attitude has changed much.

 

[southcitymom]

Gates says this isn't about him at all and he will use it to improve fairness in the criminal justice system. I disagree. It IS about him. If he had behaved himself and had not started using the race card when it had nothing to do with profiling black men, this would never have happened. He is trying to use this for his cause which is a just one, but this does not apply. A neighbor called because someone was seen breaking into his house and LE responded. I can't see that his attitude has changed much.

Well, I'm doubting Gates is in possession of a working Time Turner (though if he has one, I'd sure like a turn with it!!) so he can't go back and change his past behavior. For me, the next best thing is a step towards reconciliation with the person he has publicly named as the source of his original behavior.

Of course, there will be folks unable to take Gates' words at face value and folks who will hold him to the fire for his public outcry until the day he dies. I'm sure not one of them and I hope Crowley's not either!

 

[DotsEyes]

First, the Sargeant went there because of a suspicious person/burglary in progress. When Gates came to the door, the prudent thing to do is to get him out of the house to talk. Why? Because he could be in danger, as in a perp inside the house, holding a gun to him or a loved one. Or, the perp could be hiding in the house, unbeknownest to Gates.

When Gates acted like an azz and said he was gong back int eh house to get his ID, the officer followed him in. Why? Because if Gates was a nut job (which he was acting like) he could have returned with a gun.

All Gates had to do was to say, Thank you for coming, but it was me trying to get in my back door. There is no emergency, here is my ID. Sorry to have caused a false alarm.

But, instead he said "You're a racist", "you're just doing this because I am black", "this is what it is like to be a black man", "I'll talk to yo' mamma", "do you know who I am?" and who knows what other stupid things, all the while trying to get in touch with the police chief.

The guy is a professor. One would think he has better manners and social skills than he showed. But, he showed his azz, acting like a low rent .

Just because the charges were dropped doesn't mean Gates didn't do what he was arrested for. It just means that the DA wasn't going to prosecute the professor for a misdemeanor. He was given special treatment because of his status.

Anyone else would have had to answer the charges.

Personally, it has been my experience that Blacks are more prejudiced against Whites than the other way around. I have been the victim of racially motivated hate, physically attacked because I am White. My friend was shot and crippled for life by a Black man because she is White. We were both called racial slurs during the attacks.

I am sick of people pretending only Whites are capable of racism. Wake up. Gates made an azz of himself because of his preconceived notions of White police officers. That is called racism.

As a White person, I am tired of White people being blamed for the problems in the Black community and am insulted to be pre-judged as a racist because I am White.

I think the Black community would be surprised to know that MOST White people don't think about "race" when dealing with people. We deal with the person, not the race, and Black people are being mislead by others who have an agenda to keep people in a state of racial tension.

 

[oh_gal]

Perhaps the reason you never see a white man saying he was arrested for being white is because it never happens and never has!

White men don't have the historical experiences that Blacks do of being arrested, jailed and convicted based on their color.

Statistically speaking, blacks commit more crimes than whites, or hispanics, based upon incarceration rates.
Although there may be some cases of people being convicted wrongly (i.e. based upon their color), the numbers can't be this far off. Numbers don't lie.

The statistics:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm

Just stating the facts.

 

[Nova]

Statistically speaking, blacks commit more crimes than whites, or hispanics, based upon incarceration rates.
Although there may be some cases of people being convicted wrongly (i.e. based upon their color), the numbers can't be this far off. Numbers don't lie.

The statistics:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm

Just stating the facts.

Actually, no. You cite facts (conviction rates) and then leap to an unsupported conclusion (that conviction rates fairly represent crimes committed).

We don't know the rate of wrongful convictions and I doubt you could get LE anywhere to allow such a rate to be accurately determined.

Prison stats only measure those who are incarcerated. To be incarcerated, one must be convicted, so at best, your stats reflect conviction rates, not crime rates.

Further, prison stats do not include those who are sentenced only to probation, fines or other non-prison punishments. Are the rates for these "light" sentences the same for all races? I doubt it.

We don't know how many people accused of crimes were allowed to enter rehab or some sort of pretrial intervention program that kept them out of prison.

Poor people are more likely to commit crimes. For a variety of historical reasons, African-Americans are more likely to be poor than other Americans.

Those who are less educated are more likely to commit crimes. I don't think I need to explain the state of many predominantly black schools in this country.

Laws and sentencing guidelines heavily punish blue-collar or street crime (more likely to involve blacks) relative to white-collar crimes.

Laws and sentencing guidelines heavily punish drugs used by the (often black) urban poor relative to drugs (including alcohol) favored by the white middle-class.

Etc. and so forth.

 

[Nova]

First, the Sargeant went there because of a suspicious person/burglary in progress. When Gates came to the door, the prudent thing to do is to get him out of the house to talk. Why? Because he could be in danger, as in a perp inside the house, holding a gun to him or a loved one. Or, the perp could be hiding in the house, unbeknownest to Gates.

When Gates acted like an azz and said he was gong back int eh house to get his ID, the officer followed him in. Why? Because if Gates was a nut job (which he was acting like) he could have returned with a gun.

All Gates had to do was to say, Thank you for coming, but it was me trying to get in my back door. There is no emergency, here is my ID. Sorry to have caused a false alarm.

But, instead he said "You're a racist", "you're just doing this because I am black", "this is what it is like to be a black man", "I'll talk to yo' mamma", "do you know who I am?" and who knows what other stupid things, all the while trying to get in touch with the police chief.

The guy is a professor. One would think he has better manners and social skills than he showed. But, he showed his azz, acting like a low rent .

Just because the charges were dropped doesn't mean Gates didn't do what he was arrested for. It just means that the DA wasn't going to prosecute the professor for a misdemeanor. He was given special treatment because of his status.

Anyone else would have had to answer the charges.

Personally, it has been my experience that Blacks are more prejudiced against Whites than the other way around. I have been the victim of racially motivated hate, physically attacked because I am White. My friend was shot and crippled for life by a Black man because she is White. We were both called racial slurs during the attacks.

I am sick of people pretending only Whites are capable of racism. Wake up. Gates made an azz of himself because of his preconceived notions of White police officers. That is called racism.

As a White person, I am tired of White people being blamed for the problems in the Black community and am insulted to be pre-judged as a racist because I am White.

I think the Black community would be surprised to know that MOST White people don't think about "race" when dealing with people. We deal with the person, not the race, and Black people are being mislead by others who have an agenda to keep people in a state of racial tension.

I'm sorry about your friend, but the idea that white people don't think about "race" is total nonsense. As your post demonstrates quite well.

 

[oh_gal]

Actually, no. You cite facts (conviction rates) and then leap to an unsupported conclusion (that conviction rates fairly represent crimes committed).

We don't know the rate of wrongful convictions and I doubt you could get LE anywhere to allow such a rate to be accurately determined.

Prison stats only measure those who are incarcerated. To be incarcerated, one must be convicted, so at best, your stats reflect conviction rates, not crime rates.

Further, prison stats do not include those who are sentenced only to probation, fines or other non-prison punishments. Are the rates for these "light" sentences the same for all races? I doubt it.

We don't know how many people accused of crimes were allowed to enter rehab or some sort of pretrial intervention program that kept them out of prison.

Poor people are more likely to commit crimes. For a variety of historical reasons, African-Americans are more likely to be poor than other Americans.

Those who are less educated are more likely to commit crimes. I don't think I need to explain the state of many predominantly black schools in this country.

Laws and sentencing guidelines heavily punish blue-collar or street crime (more likely to involve blacks) relative to white-collar crimes.

Laws and sentencing guidelines heavily punish drugs used by the (often black) urban poor relative to drugs (including alcohol) favored by the white middle-class.

Etc. and so forth.

Well, let's try it this way then:
There are more blacks in prison than whites or hispanics. Is that more acceptable to you?

Please don't start in on the "whites have more opportunities than blacks in this country". As far as I know, blacks can get a guaranteed student loan to get an education just as easily as whites. That's how I paid (and am still paying) for my education.

It's all about CHOICES. You decide which CHOICE you will make.

I provided statistics to back up what I said. I didn't see yours.

 

[Nova]

I don't think Gates was arrested for being black. I think he was arrested for being a pompous,arrogant,a**. I think his atitude comes more from being a Harvard professor than being of color.

(Emphasis added.)

That's illegal now! God help me!