Has the case fizzled a bit?

[KoldKase]

Well, I think it's a fairly good guess that no one is ever going to be prosecuted in this case.

But what's NOT fair, and this is really at the heart of why some of us are still here after all these years, is that so many "intruder suspects" were paraded around by the Ramseys and their team of private investigators--in their books and pro-Ramsey programs, including Lin Wood speaking on their behalf on TV--who did not have one thing to do with the child's death.

I can't believe for ONE MINUTE that there is a legal obstacle to having the redacted case file opened under the FOIA because of this.

Those wrongly accused Team Ramsey scapegoats should have the right and opportunity to defend their reputations and innocence as much as any Ramsey.

But that would require money and time, which many of them don't have--which is exactly why some of them were chosen.

Think of the suicide victim: his family has NO civil law path to defend him after Team Ramsey, under hypocrites Michael Tracey's and Lou Smit's misguided Ramsey propaganda programs, smeared his name and life to give the Ramseys yet ANOTHER FALSE SUSPECT.

I tell you, Team Ramsey has had NO SHAME when libeling an entire family to keep the trail cold with more red herrings.

So at the very least, the D.A. should now open the case files for FOIA requests so the public can at last see the evidence so long hidden and twisted while so many TRULY INNOCENT people have suffered for it. Whatever shakes out, shakes out. They can redact records including Burke if that's a legal issue. We can fill in the blanks ourselves after all these years.

I have to say I'm not sure that anything related to Burke has to be redacted, or that his age at the time would be an issue to opening the files for this reason: he hasn't been "found" guilty or responsible for any of it, legally speaking. If he had been, why a grand jury? Why would LE and the DA continue to "investigate" the case all these years? How could they justify dragging Karr from Thailand to Boulder?

That's the closest to truth and justice as this case will ever get.

Well, JMO, of course.

 

[Venom]

You are forgetting one of the most important problems in the case from day 1. That is a DA too afraid/incompetent/corrupt to bring charges unless he can be ASSURED a conviction. AH had NEVER prosecuted a case successfully. His one attempt did not result in a conviction, and a mortified AH decided to never attempt to try a case again. Instead, he plea-bargained and was quite well-know for it.
2. EVERY subsequent DA has come under the thumb of corruption and are afraid to challenge the powerful defense team. These DAs won't file charges unless they are guaranteed a conviction, and juries don't guarantee anything. Especially juries that can be tampered with by the defense team and threat of litigation/retaliation.

Just reading through this thread and this post had me shake my head...
Really, a DA who only tried 1 case ever, on account of not being 100% sure of conviction. And no DA since will even attempt to bring someone to trial.

 

[KoldKase]

Under Colorado law, they can't be, because doing so would reveal who the killer was- a child under 10 can't be revealed as a perp in ANY crime, no matter how grave. I don't think BR staged it al ALL- I think his parents did all the staging. I don't believe he played any part in the staging at all. At that point, he was sent to his room and told to stay there.

You know, this makes me wonder if Lacy "redacted" the part of the 911 call tape she released to Wood because Burke was in fact on it.

Ha. That would explain a lot.

 

[Venom]

Darlene, I'm not sure if the medical and phone records were provided to the GJ -- Hunter had previously blocked BPD from subpoenaing them. Also, the good Dr. Beuf said in a TV interview that he would destroy his records before he would turn them over.

Yes, I agree with you about the timing of the GJ actions. (For anyone not familiar with the sequence, here's a good link.) Just consider while reading over the sequence that if -- if the GJ determined that it was BDI, and considering that a minor cannot be charged (or even named) in Colorado... is there anything about the sequence that doesn't make sense? Especially now that we know that the GJ decided to indict JR/PR, but Hunter squelched it. Notice that the parents were indicted without even being called to the testify.

Also, does anyone remember this interview?

BBM, what would he have to hide/destroy in those records? If nothing is in those that would cause concern, why not hand them over if subpoenaed to? The more I read and learn about this case the more angrier I get.

 

[midwest mama]

BBM, what would he have to hide/destroy in those records? If nothing is in those that would cause concern, why not hand them over if subpoenaed to? The more I read and learn about this case the more angrier I get.

Welcome to the club, Venom! The one that includes those of us who are so maddened by this crime and the fact that the Ramsey family has eluded any official challenge from the justice system to face a jury of their peers for a decision as to their guilt or innocence for the murder of JonBenet.

Blue Bottle posted this on another thread:

John found the body at 11 am.
Patsy dressed JonBenet's body after wiping it and tranfered the fibers.


and this is my response:

First line: So says John. The same John who has zero witnesses to that action, and cannot prove that as fact.

Second line: Were you there to witness this? Do you have some sort of confessional statement from Patsy recorded in a format that can be verified?

Truly, BB01, if you feel you have evidence of these statements as truth, I hope you will consider sharing it with BPD. IMO, if they believe you, they might think they have enough reason to ask John to come in again for further questioning. Then, it would be interesting to learn what his response might be.

Especially since he and Patsy both once said they would spend the rest of their lives and every penny they had to try to find the murderer of their daughter if they could, and wanted to help BPD in any way possible.

You remember, don't you, in the early days when the Ramseys were speaking out of both sides of their mouths......one day they were professing to be willing to cooperate in any way they could with LE, the other they were saying they had to lawyer up immediately to prepare a defense team for JR since he was the main suspect of BPD from day one. If you have forgotten, you might be able to refresh your memory by reading (or re-reading) their book, DOI, in which they profess these statements to be sincere.

There is no way on earth I will ever be convinced that John Ramsey was not involved in, or at the very least aware of, JonBenet's departure into Heaven as it really happened. That shouts FELONY MURDER to me. Period.

 

[madeleine]

Also, does anyone remember this interview?

"Burke's position, with the encouragement of his parents, is that if they need any further assistance from Burke Ramsey in solving the murder of his sister, he'll try and help out," Jenkins said.

September 25, 1998

spin,spin,spin:stormingmad:
he and his attorneys managed to avoid "helping" them 2 years ago

 

[madeleine]

You know, this makes me wonder if Lacy "redacted" the part of the 911 call tape she released to Wood because Burke was in fact on it.

Ha. That would explain a lot.

wouldn't that be illegal?
but hey,on the other hand...I am not so sure what she did with that DNA if you know what I mean?wouldn't be the first time in history when evidence is...planted....

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

There is no way on earth I will ever be convinced that John Ramsey was not involved in, or at the very least aware of, JonBenet's departure into Heaven as it really happened. That shouts FELONY MURDER to me. Period.

Then post the evidence John was involved.

 

[madeleine]

Then post the evidence John was involved.

let's start with withholding information from police ("broken" window)...why would someone do it if totally innocent and not involved in it somehow

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

What information was withheld from police concerning the broken window?

 

[madeleine]

What information was withheld from police concerning the broken window?

do your own research if you REALLY wanna know,it's all out there ,I am not taking the bait.

 

[KoldKase]

BBM, what would he have to hide/destroy in those records? If nothing is in those that would cause concern, why not hand them over if subpoenaed to? The more I read and learn about this case the more angrier I get.

I don't believe they were ever subpoenaed. I may be wrong, but I'm thinking it was another "Hunter gift to the prime suspects" to allow them to "volunteer" the records. If it was the same as the phone records, the Ramseys "volunteered" them long after the murder and only parts they wanted LE to see.

But it's worse than that.

There was a big brouhaha a year or so after the murder about those medical records. Knowing what I know now, I believe not only did Dr. Beuf make good on that threat, he set up a defense to keep from getting arrested for tampering with evidence--as if....

It was reported in various news media that Dr. Beuf claimed he'd put those medical records in a safety deposit box in a bank...A BANK.

Lo and behold, Beuf then claimed the security box was SOMEHOW tampered with and the records were accessed! By some unknown sub! HIGH DUDGEON!anic:

AND...sit down, please, if you have anything you value in a deposit box in a bank...THE BANK SEEMED TO HAVE NO IDEA WHO GOT INTO THEIR VAULT WITH THE DEPOSIT BOXES! IN 1997! WITH VIDEO CAMERAS AND SECURITY AND SUCH! :waitasec::notgood:

Who on earth would ever believe such a story?

Dr. Beuf tried to make it sound like he put the records in that bank for "safe keeping", no less. From the horrible TABLOIDS! Who might STEAL THEM!

And mysteriously enough, THAT'S when they got...something! :floorlaugh:

It was as preposterous a story as those who were determined to help Team Ramsey ever told.

But there it is. It was reported in various news media in Colorado and nothing was ever proven or disproven about it.

It's been so long ago, I'm trying to remember if that was in PMPT or Thomas' book, or both? I never heard of it when it happened because I wasn't online and those books didn't come out until later.

Anyone else remember this fiasco with Dr. Beuf?

 

[KoldKase]

wouldn't that be illegal?
but hey,on the other hand...I am not so sure what she did with that DNA if you know what I mean?wouldn't be the first time in history when evidence is...planted....

I'm referring to the disk copy that might have contained a redacted version, not the actual original tape being tampered with.

Since a copy of the "original" 911 call was ordered by a judge to be released to Burke's lawyer before Burke testified for the grand jury, it would take more than one person to conspire to actually tamper with the evidence itself because Burke's copy would have contained the original recording. That would set up anyone who would have put his/her job and career on the line, not to mention risk jail time, to damage the original if it were discovered at some point because that copy would always be out there.

Not that the Ramseys would ever allow it to surface, but would you put your career on the line for Team Ramsey if you were a lowly lab tech?

Also, there were plenty of LE who heard it many times, plus the original lab who amplified the original to tease out the "murky" voices on it--Aerospace.

I don't think anyone was going to damage the original back then, at any rate, though we are talking around the time Lacy and Wood joined forces to exonerate the Ramseys; that's when Lacy released the 911 recording to Wood and he went on his media blitz with it--though that wasn't the enhanced section of the tape, as we know. It would be a few years before they went full tilt manipulation of evidence, legal responsibilities and oaths be damned.

Who knows what Lacy lowered herself to do with it before she left office--I put nothing past her after PERV Karr and the "exoneration" letter. She was feeling quite heady when she "uncovered" that useless "touch" DNA, wasn't she? As we have seen since then, she was on pretty steady ground if she thought she could do anything she wanted in this case--and did.

 

[Venom]

I don't believe they were ever subpoenaed. I may be wrong, but I'm thinking it was another "Hunter gift to the prime suspects" to allow them to "volunteer" the records. If it was the same as the phone records, the Ramseys "volunteered" them long after the murder and only parts they wanted LE to see.

But it's worse than that.

There was a big brouhaha a year or so after the murder about those medical records. Knowing what I know now, I believe not only did Dr. Beuf make good on that threat, he set up a defense to keep from getting arrested for tampering with evidence--as if....

It was reported in various news media that Dr. Beuf claimed he'd put those medical records in a safety deposit box in a bank...A BANK.

Lo and behold, Beuf then claimed the security box was SOMEHOW tampered with and the records were accessed! By some unknown sub! HIGH DUDGEON!anic:

AND...sit down, please, if you have anything you value in a deposit box in a bank...THE BANK SEEMED TO HAVE NO IDEA WHO GOT INTO THEIR VAULT WITH THE DEPOSIT BOXES! IN 1997! WITH VIDEO CAMERAS AND SECURITY AND SUCH! :waitasec::notgood:

Who on earth would ever believe such a story?

Dr. Beuf tried to make it sound like he put the records in that bank for "safe keeping", no less. From the horrible TABLOIDS! Who might STEAL THEM!

And mysteriously enough, THAT'S when they got...something! :floorlaugh:

It was as preposterous a story as those who were determined to help Team Ramsey ever told.

But there it is. It was reported in various news media in Colorado and nothing was ever proven or disproven about it.

It's been so long ago, I'm trying to remember if that was in PMPT or Thomas' book, or both? I never heard of it when it happened because I wasn't online and those books didn't come out until later.

Anyone else remember this fiasco with Dr. Beuf?

Maybe the foreign faction got into the safe deposit box?

Kidding, of course. So JB's medical records have been lost? And whoever stole them has never leaked them. :waitasec:
The R's sure seem to have been (and still are) catered to from the DA and police.

 

[midwest mama]

Then post the evidence John was involved.

Now you know, BB01, in order to post factual evidence that John was involved, I would have to be either a crime insider or a successful prosecutor about to summarize in my closing argument why I feel a jury should find JR guilty of Felony Murder.

Being simply a forum poster, with opinions formed from as much information as I have been able to peruse which is in the public domain, anything I would post would have to be considered strictly my opinion and therefore subject to your interpretation.

I find it amusing that you are requesting posts of evidence that incriminate John. You have already stated that you know more about the case than some on this forum. Good for you. I am somewhat envious of the things you claim to know, which I may not - especially since I interpret your statements to mean some of us have arrived at what you know for fact is an erroneous judgement regarding the details of the crime.

With sincere respect, if you know FOR A FACT that John Ramsey should be held totally unaccountable for any involvement in JB's death, then it should not matter one speck to you what has led anyone else to believe there is any evidence to the contrary. Nor should you need anyone to validate an opinion with which you can never agree.

Since you simply believe some on the forum should "carry on" - having nothing of value to add, I, for one, will comfortably honor your dictate. I will carry on, adding nothing of value with regard to my interpretation of evidence as it relates to John Ramsey, as a response to you. :seeya:

 

[2 percent]

Do you have a citation to the relevant statute? I ask because it is one thing to say a 9 year old can't be tried for a crime. It's another altogether to say he can't even be named as the perp.

The closest I've seen to this is:

By its definition of a "delinquent child" the general assembly includes, in its first two categories, only those children who commit acts which, if they were adults, would constitute commission of either a felony or a major misdemeanor. The act of violating a child in need of supervision probation is not remotely comparable to those set forth in the statute. People in Interest of D.R., 29 Colo. App. 525, 487 P.2d 824 (1971).

A delinquent child is defined as one under 18 but over 10, who violates a state law, excepting state traffic laws. I.R. v. People, 171 Colo. 54, 464 P.2d 296 (1970).

http://www.lpdirect.net/casb/crs/19-1-103.html

And if you look at the Youth Corrections Division of the Colorado Department of Human Services you'll see their age ranges are 10-21. Most of the time offenders are transferred to adult facilities on their 18th birthday but some places let youth offenders who began their career in Juvenile Corrections stay until 21.

 

[2 percent]

Having said that, though, it doesn't mean Patsy and John can't be charged as conspirators, accessories and with obstruction, etc.
Just because Burke couldn't be tried and punished doesn't mean the crime didn't happen and Patsy and John didn't commit crimes.

 

[SapphireSteel]

If we are to believe BDI, it follows that we accept PR and JR are involved, in the cover-up at the very least.

JB didn't die immediately, she was hit over the head then strangled later. It took her a while to die.

What parent would find their dead/dying baby girl on the basement floor, and not call 911 immediately?

No parent, that's who. No innocent parent, that is. These two are not innocent!

Add in the statistical likelihood that JB died at the hands of her parents, the practical likelihood considering sheer mechanics (Burke's size) and the fact that they were cool as cucumbers when they called 911 ("hon, we have to") and also performed the staging.

All of these factors means to me at least, BDI makes no sense at all.

The ones who staged are the ones who committed this crime.

:cow:

 

[otg]

Now you know, BB01, in order to post factual evidence that John was involved, I would have to be either a crime insider or a successful prosecutor about to summarize in my closing argument why I feel a jury should find JR guilty of Felony Murder.

Being simply a forum poster, with opinions formed from as much information as I have been able to peruse which is in the public domain, anything I would post would have to be considered strictly my opinion and therefore subject to your interpretation.

I find it amusing that you are requesting posts of evidence that incriminate John. You have already stated that you know more about the case than some on this forum. Good for you. I am somewhat envious of the things you claim to know, which I may not - especially since I interpret your statements to mean some of us have arrived at what you know for fact is an erroneous judgement regarding the details of the crime.

With sincere respect, if you know FOR A FACT that John Ramsey should be held totally unaccountable for any involvement in JB's death, then it should not matter one speck to you what has led anyone else to believe there is any evidence to the contrary. Nor should you need anyone to validate an opinion with which you can never agree.

Since you simply believe some on the forum should "carry on" - having nothing of value to add, I, for one, will comfortably honor your dictate. I will carry on, adding nothing of value with regard to my interpretation of evidence as it relates to John Ramsey, as a response to you. :seeya:

Ohhhh, mama, you said so much more diplomatically what I was thinking when I read that post than I could ever hope to have said. I think I might have simply said something like:

"Here we go again. There goes the neighborhood."​

 

[SapphireSteel]

Obviously I know more about the case than you do.

You think you know things that aren't known. You make assertions and then defend your assertions by acting aghast that your assertions woud even be challenged. It doesn't work that way. The fact is you don't know if information was withheld or honestly offered about the broken window. And you have no evidence John was involved, only hunches.

Carry on, you have nothing of value to add. :seeya:

And try to control your emotions, this is a polite forum. :banghead:

:lol:

I see you're new around these parts...