Has the case fizzled a bit?

[UKGuy]

Then post the evidence John was involved.

Blue Bottle 01,
All three Ramsey's are linked to the wine-cellar by various forensic artifacts, despite some of them saying they were never in the basement that night.

JR, PR and BR lied regarding BR being asleep that morning. They later retracted this claim.

PR lied about the size-12's, so who was she covering for, certainly not herself since she patently was ignorant about the location of the size-12's.

Fibers alleged to be consistent with those from JR's Israeli manufactured woolen shirt were found on JonBenet's genital region, despite her being wiped down etc.

JR made a series of claims regarding artifacts in the basement, e.g. the suitcase, the window, the latter was never seen by the house-keeper LHP as she and her husband were down in the basement fetching Christmas trees and decorations, also there is the chair left in front of the door by the intruder as he left via this door?

One of the residents in that house sexuallly assaulted JonBenet that night, Coroner Meyer reported both acute and chronic sexual contact consistent with digital penetration.

Prime suspect in a case of this order is the Father, i.e John Ramsey.


.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Blue Bottle 01,
All three Ramsey's are linked to the wine-cellar by various forensic artifacts, despite some of them saying they were never in the basement that night.

JR, PR and BR lied regarding BR being asleep that morning. They later retracted this claim.

PR lied about the size-12's, so who was she covering for, certainly not herself since she patently was ignorant about the location of the size-12's.

Fibers alleged to be consistent with those from JR's Israeli manufactured woolen shirt were found on JonBenet's genital region, despite her being wiped down etc.

JR made a series of claims regarding artifacts in the basement, e.g. the suitcase, the window, the latter was never seen by the house-keeper LHP as she and her husband were down in the basement fetching Christmas trees and decorations, also there is the chair left in front of the door by the intruder as he left via this door?

One of the residents in that house sexuallly assaulted JonBenet that night, Coroner Meyer reported both acute and chronic sexual contact consistent with digital penetration.

Prime suspect in a case of this order is the Father, i.e John Ramsey.


.

To me them being linked to things in that room mean little to me. It was THEIR house. They lived there. They could have been in that room thousands of times. They touched their kids and their clothes. To me all the "evidence" That links the ramseys doesn't really count for much when you figure they lived there.
ETA: And for that matter I bet that my fibers and my dh's fibers are all over my kids clothing. And if I went to wipe my kids face there would be more fibers because we all live together and contaminate everything because we all use the same towels and wash clothes. We touch common things like couches. My finger prints would be on our glasses tonight but tomorrow when dh puts the glasses away his will be. Maybe my son will help and his will be too.

I just think there are too many things that are looked at as GOTCHA's when really they are just common living transfers.

 

[UKGuy]

To me them being linked to things in that room mean little to me. It was THEIR house. They lived there. They could have been in that room thousands of times. They touched their kids and their clothes. To me all the "evidence" That links the ramseys doesn't really count for much when you figure they lived there.
ETA: And for that matter I bet that my fibers and my dh's fibers are all over my kids clothing. And if I went to wipe my kids face there would be more fibers because we all live together and contaminate everything because we all use the same towels and wash clothes. We touch common things like couches. My finger prints would be on our glasses tonight but tomorrow when dh puts the glasses away his will be. Maybe my son will help and his will be too.

I just think there are too many things that are looked at as GOTCHA's when really they are just common living transfers.

ScarlettScarpetta,
Sure but some of the forensic artifact was new to the wine-cellar that night. Then there are the collection of JonBenet photographs found in the basement, coincidental or is there a correlation?

So what is Sexual Contact or Digital Penetration, are these GOTCHA's, just common living transfers?

Burke Ramsey's touch-dna was found on the Pink Barbie Nightgown, also his fingerprints were on the pineapple serving bowl and the glass holding the teabag.

That represents slightly more than a chance event in a house where a young girl was sexually assaulted and brutally murdered.

Everyone and their dog knows the Ramsey's biological markers and fibers will be all over their house. We are only interested in those that directly relate to events involving JonBenet that night, particularly those where residents denied ever visiting the basement.

.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

How do we know they were new that night? How was that even possible to put a time stamp on? How do we know when they were put there?



The sexual abuse point, I don't believe that it means it was the family because there was evidence of some abuse.

I don't see anything in Burke's touch dna on her night gown. Nothing. My kids touch laundry, They touch each other all.the.time.

And why is Burke's touch DNA relevant but the rest of the touch DNA irrelevant? That is what I don't get. How can you claim one source is part of the solution but all other sort of the same product of touch DNA is not??

The fingerprints are also not relevant to me. Maybe he got the glass maybe he put the glass away the day before? Who knows?

I am not trying to be difficult but to me these are big problems pointing at the Ramseys with guilt. It just makes no clear sense to me that any of these things mean anything about the murder. That is where you lose me and I suspect others. JMO.

 

[Chelly]

ScarlettScarpetta,
Sure but some of the forensic artifact was new to the wine-cellar that night. Then there are the collection of JonBenet photographs found in the basement, coincidental or is there a correlation?

So what is Sexual Contact or Digital Penetration, are these GOTCHA's, just common living transfers?

Burke Ramsey's touch-dna was found on the Pink Barbie Nightgown, also his fingerprints were on the pineapple serving bowl and the glass holding the teabag.

That represents slightly more than a chance event in a house where a young girl was sexually assaulted and brutally murdered.

Everyone and their dog knows the Ramsey's biological markers and fibers will be all over their house. We are only interested in those that directly relate to events involving JonBenet that night, particularly those where residents denied ever visiting the basement.

.

AGREED! And.....Speaking of fibers UKGuy: How about the fibers from PR's jacket that were found intertwined in the ligature. How about the fibers from JR's uncommon israeli wool shirt that were found in the crotch of his dead daughter's panties. This is evidence and there is only one way to rationalize it!!!!

 

[Chelly]

How do we know they were new that night? How was that even possible to put a time stamp on? How do we know when they were put there?



The sexual abuse point, I don't believe that it means it was the family because there was evidence of some abuse.

I don't see anything in Burke's touch dna on her night gown. Nothing. My kids touch laundry, They touch each other all.the.time.

And why is Burke's touch DNA relevant but the rest of the touch DNA irrelevant? That is what I don't get. How can you claim one source is part of the solution but all other sort of the same product of touch DNA is not??

The fingerprints are also not relevant to me. Maybe he got the glass maybe he put the glass away the day before? Who knows?

I am not trying to be difficult but to me these are big problems pointing at the Ramseys with guilt. It just makes no clear sense to me that any of these things mean anything about the murder. That is where you lose me and I suspect others. JMO.

It appears that not much of the evidence is relevant to you. Is it relevant to you that fibers from the jacket Patsy wore were intertwined in the ligature that strangled her daughter to death? Is it relevant to you that fibers from John's shirt were found in the crotch of his dead daughter's panties?

You say that you are not trying to be difficult. However, it appears you are.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

No really I am not. I am posting issues I see with the things that people say is evidence. It is our job to question and to mull and to look over and take apart. That is how we find the truth.

It is not relevant to me that his shirt fibers were found in her underwear. As I said transfer can happen any time. He could have helped her put them on in the morning, Helped her get dressed, Thrown his shirt to be ironed on the place where all the laundry was. I can think of a lot of innocent reasons how that could happen. My kids clothes go through the laundry inside out. Im just saying that looking at it, I can see a lot of innocent reasons for the transfer fibers no matter where they were.

 

[Chelly]

No really I am not. I am posting issues I see with the things that people say is evidence. It is our job to question and to mull and to look over and take apart. That is how we find the truth.

No. It is not relevant to me that his shirt fibers were found in her underwear. As I said transfer can happen any time. He could have helped her put them on in the morning, Helped her get dressed, Thrown his shirt to be ironed on the place where all the laundry was. I can think of a lot of innocent reasons how that could happen. My kids clothes go through the laundry inside out. Im just saying that looking at it, I can see a lot of innocent reasons for the transfer fibers no matter where they were.

What is the innocent reason PR's jacket fibers were intertwined in the ligature that strangled JB to death?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

What is the innocent reason PR's jacket fibers were intertwined in the ligature that strangled JB to death?

Id like a source for that. An original source because I can not find it anywhere except from an old post here where someone brought a post from another forum and it was some lawyer named Levin that brought that up.

I can not find any independent finding on that.

And I don't mean from a site. From actual evidence report.

I am as interested in this case as anyone and I want to make sure before I accept something as fact, I have a true and valid source.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Blue Bottle 01,
All three Ramsey's are linked to the wine-cellar by various forensic artifacts, despite some of them saying they were never in the basement that night.

JR, PR and BR lied regarding BR being asleep that morning. They later retracted this claim.

PR lied about the size-12's, so who was she covering for, certainly not herself since she patently was ignorant about the location of the size-12's.

Fibers alleged to be consistent with those from JR's Israeli manufactured woolen shirt were found on JonBenet's genital region, despite her being wiped down etc.

JR made a series of claims regarding artifacts in the basement, e.g. the suitcase, the window, the latter was never seen by the house-keeper LHP as she and her husband were down in the basement fetching Christmas trees and decorations, also there is the chair left in front of the door by the intruder as he left via this door?

One of the residents in that house sexuallly assaulted JonBenet that night, Coroner Meyer reported both acute and chronic sexual contact consistent with digital penetration.

Prime suspect in a case of this order is the Father, i.e John Ramsey.


.

There is no evidence there that John was involved.
Patsy redressed the body thus the opportunity for transfer.
Patsy did not cover-up for anyone not even herself. There was no cover-up staging for police.
Digital violation of a female does not require a man.
Try to get some real evidence John was involved.

 

[cynic]

Id like a source for that. An original source because I can not find it anywhere except from an old post here where someone brought a post from another forum and it was some lawyer named Levin that brought that up.

I can not find any independent finding on that.

And I don't mean from a site. From actual evidence report.

I am as interested in this case as anyone and I want to make sure before I accept something as fact, I have a true and valid source.

With respect to who Bruce Levin is, have a look here:
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1998/05ramsey.html

The following is from the August 28, 2000 Interview in Atlanta of Patsy Ramsey by LE and members of the grand jury prosecutorial team.

3 MR. LEVIN: I think that is
4 probably fair. Based on the state of the
5 art scientific testing, we believe the fibers
6 from her jacket were found in the paint
7 tray, were found tied into the ligature found
8 on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket
9 that she is wrapped in, were found on the
10 duct tape that is found on the mouth, and
11 the question is, can she explain to us how
12 those fibers appeared in those places that
13 are associated with her daughter's death.
14 And I understand you are not going to answer
15 those.
16 MR. WOOD: Right.
[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4666"]Patsy Ramsey & John Ramsey - BPD Interviews (Atlanta) - August 28, 2000 - Forums For Justice[/ame]

 

[Chelly]

Id like a source for that. An original source because I can not find it anywhere except from an old post here where someone brought a post from another forum and it was some lawyer named Levin that brought that up.

I can not find any independent finding on that.

And I don't mean from a site. From actual evidence report.

I am as interested in this case as anyone and I want to make sure before I accept something as fact, I have a true and valid source.

It is in evidence. i won't do the research for you.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

With respect to who Bruce Levin is, have a look here:
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1998/05ramsey.html

The following is from the August 28, 2000 Interview in Atlanta of Patsy Ramsey by LE and members of the grand jury prosecutorial team.

3 MR. LEVIN: I think that is
4 probably fair. Based on the state of the
5 art scientific testing, we believe the fibers
6 from her jacket were found in the paint
7 tray, were found tied into the ligature found
8 on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket
9 that she is wrapped in, were found on the
10 duct tape that is found on the mouth, and
11 the question is, can she explain to us how
12 those fibers appeared in those places that
13 are associated with her daughter's death.
14 And I understand you are not going to answer
15 those.
16 MR. WOOD: Right.
Patsy Ramsey & John Ramsey - BPD Interviews (Atlanta) - August 28, 2000 - Forums For Justice

That is just a question from a prosecutor looking for an answer that could trap a potential suspect. That is not proof of anything. I just read this entire transcript and I find more that points away from this being evidence than to it. WHY? Because if you really have fibers unique to Patsy entwined in the ligature, you have a smoking gun. You have enough to prosecute. Anyone could find guilt based on that with other little circumstantial evidence.

I have not seen one piece of evidence, Not one test finding that supports this question. It is not a fact. IT is a question. Nothing more.

 

[cynic]

That is just a question from a prosecutor looking for an answer that could trap a potential suspect. That is not proof of anything. I just read this entire transcript and I find more that points away from this being evidence than to it. WHY? Because if you really have fibers unique to Patsy entwined in the ligature, you have a smoking gun. You have enough to prosecute. Anyone could find guilt based on that with other little circumstantial evidence.

I have not seen one piece of evidence, Not one test finding that supports this question. It is not a fact. IT is a question. Nothing more.

Chief James Kolar who did see the case file confirms that it was not simply some form of entrapment.
Trujillo advised me that lab technicians had identified eightdifferent types of fibers on the sticky side of the duct tape used tocover JonBenét’s mouth. They included red acrylic, gray acrylic,and red polyester fibers that were subsequently determined by laboratory examination to be microscopically and chemically consistent to each other, as well as to fibers taken from Patsy Ramsey’s Essentials jacket.
Further, fibers from this jacket were also matched to trace fibers collected from the wrist ligature, neck ligature, and vacuumed evidence from the paint tray and Wine Cellar floor.
Foreign Faction - Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? James Kolar, page 228

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Chief James Kolar who did see the case file confirms that it was not simply some form of entrapment.
Trujillo advised me that lab technicians had identified eightdifferent types of fibers on the sticky side of the duct tape used tocover JonBenét’s mouth. They included red acrylic, gray acrylic,and red polyester fibers that were subsequently determined by laboratory examination to be microscopically and chemically consistent to each other, as well as to fibers taken from Patsy Ramsey’s Essentials jacket.
Further, fibers from this jacket were also matched to trace fibers collected from the wrist ligature, neck ligature, and vacuumed evidence from the paint tray and Wine Cellar floor.
Foreign Faction - Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? James Kolar, page 228

What about the other fibers? All the ones that did not match?

I don't know how much I believe that without something more than someone else's say so. Why if they had this did they not put it in front of Patsy and say..We have the smoking gun..

Because they must not have.

I have a hard time taking information from books people got paid for and accepting it as fact. If this is all really true, and they had all this evidence against her then it makes no sense not to charge her and prosecute. If all this information is completely true then why not put it all out there for free?

I can also explain the transfer like this..

Patsy has worn that coat how many times? Maybe she wore it and had her paint kit and transferred fibers to the bag with the paint supplies. Killer picks up paint stick it has fibers on it, They become entwined in the ligature as killer holds rope and uses brush to make the garrote.

But mostly, I don't believe those fibers mean much. What about the most likely 100's of fibers that did not match PR. There is no way the only fibers on there came from her jacket, If they did at all.

I have too many questions to accept this as a fact in the case.

 

[Venom]

There is no evidence there that John was involved.
Patsy redressed the body thus the opportunity for transfer.
Patsy did not cover-up for anyone not even herself. There was no cover-up staging for police.
Digital violation of a female does not require a man.
Try to get some real evidence John was involved.

Fibers consistent with his shirt found in her genital region? How would they have gotten there? Please don't tell me because they lived together; I can understand fibers being on clothes, hands- but not on the genitals, inside the underwear. I have a hard time believing that fibers got there just by normal circumstances.

 

[midwest mama]

Ohhhh, mama, you said so much more diplomatically what I was thinking when I read that post than I could ever hope to have said. I think I might have simply said something like:

"Here we go again. There goes the neighborhood."​

otg, you gotta know how much I adore you, er...your sense of humor!!:floorlaugh:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Why not? If the fibers were on her underwear and she put them on it is entirely possible. Most families wash clothes together. His undershirt that he wore under the shirt goes in the washer along with her undies, All gets washed and dried, Fibers galore.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Fibers consistent with his shirt found in her genital region? How would they have gotten there? Please don't tell me because they lived together; I can understand fibers being on clothes, hands- but not on the genitals, inside the underwear. I have a hard time believing that fibers got there just by normal circumstances.

Then I suggest you do a simple experiment. Get a similar sweater, wear it all day with your significant other near you, then have he, she, it undress and dress a child or some similar standin and then test the stand in for transfer.

You see these things can be done. But that might ruin the forum musings eh?

 

[Venom]

They must be some pesky fibers, to be there after she was wiped down. And along with those pesky fibers intertwined in the ligature.