Henry Lee's comment on the Touch DNA

[JMO8778]

Its clear to both of us the note is left and JR is right. You could even add that to your case facts thread if you want. Whether or not its real left or fake left is another argument.

you're saying the note is democratic in nature? hardly sounds like a foreigner.

 

[JMO8778]

Its very likely the perp is foreign, and that makes him remote. ESL student predominates the note, and the themes are adult.

would you please show us a handwriting expert who thinks a foreigner wrote the note?? and not one hired by the Rams?? for that matter,I don't think anyone was willing to stick their neck out far enough to say a foreigner wrote it! no one would ever rule out Patsy 100%,in the event justice might be served and they risk appearing incompetent.

 

[JMO8778]

Handwriting analysis isn't the only thing you can do with the RN. It has a wealth of information because of its length and unusual expressions.

it has a wealth of information and length b/c it's one excuse after another! from being seen outside the house in the early morning (if we monitor you getting the money early..),to no one ever seeing JB again,dead or alive (denying her remains),it simply HAD to be long in order to account for all the things they needed to explain and throw out fake clues for,in an attempt to try and pin the crime on anyone and everyone they could ! ..the kitchen sink was the only thing left!

 

[Chrishope]

You have an agenda.

Not really. I don't care if it turns out that an intruder killed JBR, but the evidence just doesn't point that way.

Now my opinion is that you are right in that he is remote. I think he was very young and lives in the boulder community. I guess we have to wait and see. I long for the day.

On what basis do you think he was very young? If he's in Boulder how is he remote?

... No matter what any of us believes, the focus on the case has narrowed to a suspect besides the Ramsey's.

What suspect? There is no suspect. There is no match, and even if there were, that doesn't automatically mean the dna belongs to the killer.

 

[UKGuy]

You have an agenda.

Not really. I don't care if it turns out that an intruder killed JBR, but the evidence just doesn't point that way.

Now my opinion is that you are right in that he is remote. I think he was very young and lives in the boulder community. I guess we have to wait and see. I long for the day.

On what basis do you think he was very young? If he's in Boulder how is he remote?

... No matter what any of us believes, the focus on the case has narrowed to a suspect besides the Ramsey's.

What suspect? There is no suspect. There is no match, and even if there were, that doesn't automatically mean the dna belongs to the killer.

Chrishope,

What suspect? There is no suspect. There is no match, and even if there were, that doesn't automatically mean the dna belongs to the killer.

100% correct. There is zero forensic evidence linking an intruder to the crime-scene, and at least 3 counts linking the Ramsey's to the crime-scene.


.

 

[Ames]

not only that,but if it's the killer's dna mixed w JB's blood..then shouldn't the LJ's be bloody,too?! after all,said intruder pulled them back up,in the IDI scenario....can anyone explain this? can anyone explain why on earth an intruder would bother to hang around long enough to do this anyway,after JB screamed? and to be so tidy as to put the flashlight back upstairs,and the grate back into position? devoid of all common sense,is the only way I could buy this scenario!

And the Sharpie back in the pen holder. Since I am not IDI, I can't give a reason as to why the "intruder" was so tidy. But, I can tell you why the Ramsey's did what they did. I think that Patsy placed the Sharpie back out of pure habit. The flashlight was wiped down and placed back on the counter, instead of in the drawer where it came out of.....as part of the staging. IMO, John placed the flashlight there, wiped free of prints...to make it look as if it was the cause of the head wound, after the intruder used it to see with. (Nevermind the fact that a real intruder would have just taken the darn thing with him, not only to be able to see in the dark in the house, and outside...but also because it would have been alot easier, and save a great deal of time. (First the intruder would have had to look for something to wipe the prints free with....paper towel, dish cloth, wash cloth...etc., and then some sort of cleaner, such as Windex or something). And the grate was never moved, that's why the spider web was intact.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

you're saying the note is democratic in nature? hardly sounds like a foreigner.

Here's a toughy for you: What political 'groups' are on the left AND dont respect this country? Hint: democrats respect this country. Another hint: some foreigners are on the left, not the right.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

would you please show us a handwriting expert who thinks a foreigner wrote the note?? and not one hired by the Rams?? for that matter,I don't think anyone was willing to stick their neck out far enough to say a foreigner wrote it! no one would ever rule out Patsy 100%,in the event justice might be served and they risk appearing incompetent.

I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but there are literally 1000's of foreign writers with better handwriting and English skills than you or I or anyone else on this forum. Cab you explain to me how, then, is any handwriting expert going to know if its a foreigner or not, when skilled English users pervade the world?

Contrary to RDI belief, the RN author wasn't very skilled at English. There are probably millions of foreigners who could've written the RN.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You mean the one at the top of the forum? If so, it's not really MY thread, you know.



Isn't that the truth!

Incidentally, I came across a story about the FALN. They're Puerto Rican radicals who operate in the US. In 1975, they committed the Fraunces Tavern bombing. Here's what they said:

FALN bragged about the bloodbath, calling the victims "reactionary corporate executives" and threatening: "You have unleashed a storm from which you comfortable Yankees can't escape."

I just bring that up to show what a real leftist radical sounds like. Take it or leave it.

The expression "You have unleased a storm from which you comfortable Yankees can't escape." is the ideological equivalent to "You're not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult". You and anybody else can't determine, based on the expressions alone, that one is real left and the other is fake left. IMO your argument that this is fake left is based solely on your predisposition of RDI. If it isn't, then please explain exactly what is unreal about the fat cat expression. Radical leftists use the term fat cat, and I can provide plenty of examples of it.

 

[Roy23]

Chrishope,

100% correct. There is zero forensic evidence linking an intruder to the crime-scene, and at least 3 counts linking the Ramsey's to the crime-scene.


.

This is comedy at its finest. You mean the evidence that pretty much everybody besides this board feels is the missing link. Whether you agree with the experts who do this for a living or not, it is fact that this foreign DNA points to an intruder. It is not a matter of me being right or wrong, it is a matter of this is how it is. Pointing fingers at the Ramsey's is why this case has been unsolved for the last 12 years. Now the case stands a chance to be solved.

 

[BBB167893]

EXACTLY!!! Thank you! I have been trying to tell him this, and he will not listen.

I'm used to that.

 

[BBB167893]

The expression "You have unleased a storm from which you comfortable Yankees can't escape." is the ideological equivalent to "You're not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult". You and anybody else can't determine, based on the expressions alone, that one is real left and the other is fake left. IMO your argument that this is fake left is based solely on your predisposition of RDI. If it isn't, then please explain exactly what is unreal about the fat cat expression. Radical leftists use the term fat cat, and I can provide plenty of examples of it.

I wonder why I bother.

Fat cat was a term that Nedra Paugh used in reference to JR. You remember who Nedra was, right? That's what my argument is based on. Even when I was IDI, that stood out for me. So I hardly see how any "predisposition" enters into it.

 

[BBB167893]

This is comedy at its finest. You mean the evidence that pretty much everybody besides this board feels is the missing link. Whether you agree with the experts who do this for a living or not, it is fact that this foreign DNA points to an intruder. It is not a matter of me being right or wrong, it is a matter of this is how it is. Pointing fingers at the Ramsey's is why this case has been unsolved for the last 12 years. Now the case stands a chance to be solved.

Actually, I know of several legal-eagles who are skeptical about it, Roy.

Earlier you advised (thank you, BTW) me to attempt to explain the DNA. I'm not sure I have to do that. See, the way the book is currently constructed, the DNA issue is not broached until after the chapters about the DA and her handpicked cronies, the people who have been pushing this DNA. I'd say it's pretty obvious how they come off in it.

And by the time I'm done with them, how much faith do you think the prospective reader will have in them or it?

This case remains unsolved because of the DA. Pure and simple.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I wonder why I bother.

Fat cat was a term that Nedra Paugh used in reference to JR. You remember who Nedra was, right? That's what my argument is based on. Even when I was IDI, that stood out for me. So I hardly see how any "predisposition" enters into it.

If NP said 'fat cat' once, does that mean radical leftists are ruled out as authoring the note? If NP said 'fat cat' once, does that allow you to conclude the RN is fake? Let me get this straight. You heard that a relative of JR referred to JR once as a 'fat cat', therefore we can conclude the RN is fake left. Have I got the reasoning now? Thats like saying if JR said 'victory' once then he's the author. That reasoning is ridiculous. Words are words. More radical leftists have said 'fat cat' than R relatives, statistics are therefore on my side.

 

[BBB167893]

If NP said 'fat cat' once, does that mean radical leftists are ruled out as authoring the note? Thats like saying if JR said 'victory' once then he's the author. That reasoning is ridiculous.

Ruling everyone else out is one thing. This is another? That doesn't strike you as a mild coincidence?

Words are words and expressions are expressions. More radical leftists have said 'fat cat' than R relatives,

But how many of them did the Rs know? You don't see how it fits together, that's all.

Besides, NP didn't even use the expression in the same context as in the RN, so your argument is tenuous at best.

Context? A person throwing random chunks into a mindless stew is your idea of "context?"

I can see I have a ways to go yet.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

But how many of them did the Rs know? You don't see how it fits together, that's all.

That JBRs killer knew JBR or her family is an RDI misconception. There's no case facts that allow you to conclude JBR knew her attacker. In fact, the RN was wrong about JR being from the south, so the author probably didn't know JR that well.

Again, there's no case facts that allow you to conclude the RN author is faking left. A relative who used the term 'fat cat' once to refer to JR simply highlights that its likely JR would be referred to as a 'fat cat' by a real radical leftist.

 

[BBB167893]

That JBRs killer knew JBR or her family is an RDI misconception.

Oh, is it now?

There's no case facts that allow you to conclude JBR knew her attacker.

Would you like a LIST, sir?

In fact, the RN was wrong about JR being from the south, so the author probably didn't know JR that well.

Actually, that was another family joke. Nedra and Pam and Patsy were known to tell him that.

I'm on a roll now!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

That JBRs killer knew JBR or her family is an RDI misconception.

Oh, is it now?



Would you like a LIST, sir? Sure



Actually, that was another family joke. Nedra and Pam and Patsy were known to tell him that.

I'm on a roll now!

Whoa, SD.

Do you understand that if a relative of JR used the term 'fat cat' to refer to JR, that that simply highlights JR is being seen by others as a 'fat cat'? And that fact does not lower, but instead raises, the chances JR would be referred to as a 'fat cat' by a real radical leftist? Can you now see that there's no way to logically go from 'NP called JR a 'fat cat' to 'the RN is faking left'.

 

[BBB167893]

Whoa, SD.

Do you understand that if a relative of JR used the term 'fat cat' to refer to JR, that that simply highlights JR is being seen by others as a 'fat cat'?

Is that why Nedra was so quick to name people who worked for him? Who at least knew him somewhat?

And that fact does not lower, but instead raises, the chances JR would be referred to as a 'fat cat' by a real radical leftist?

I don't know where you get your ideas, Holdon.

Would you like a LIST, sir? Sure

And remember, YOU asked for it! (I'm going to try and do this without printing the WHOLE book)

1) Fibers from the sweater Patsy Ramsey was known to have worn that night were found on the sticky side of the duct tape over JonBenet's mouth. Several people have tried to claim that this proves nothing because the tape had been removed from JonBenet's mouth by her father and handled by others, thus they could have transferred innocently. But those same fibers were found inside the blanket that JonBenet was wrapped up in, and were found inside the little box that Patsy Ramsey kept her art supplies in. Remember, one of her brushes had formed the handle of the ligature that JonBenet was strangled with. But most notably, those fibers were found tied into the knots of the cord itself. No such fibers were found directly on JonBenet's body. What's more, PR made no attempt to answer the question and give a possible innocent explanation. Two years later, she told a CBS reporter that her fibers had transferred to JonBenet that morning because Patsy, who had been wearing the same clothing she had worn at the party, laid on top of her. But this cannot explain it. In their own book, Death of Innocence, John Ramsey writes that by the time Patsy came near the body, JonBenet was already fully covered. This is borne out by the police reports.

2) Patsy claimed that she saw the ransom letter on the spiral staircase and stepped over it before turning to see what it was. The police later conducted an experiment where they tried to recreate her story. None of the police officers could do it without falling. Again, her story makes no sense.

3) Burke Ramsey mentioned that whoever killed JonBenet took out a knife. At the time, that was not a publicly released fact. But a knife was involved. Burke Ramsey had a Swiss army knife, but he had a habit of whittling with it inside the house and leaving wood shavings all over, so Linda Hoffman-Pugh, the family housekeeper, took it away from him and put in a cabinet in the basement where he couldn't get to it. Only Burke, Linda Hoffman-Pugh, and Patsy knew where it was. The knife was not used as a weapon on JonBenet, but it was found near her body.

4) Thomas said the FBI deemed the entire crime "criminally unsophisticated," citing the child being left on the premises, the oddness of the $118,000 demand in relation to the multi-million dollar net worth of the Ramseys, and the concept of a ransom delivery where one would be "scanned for electronic devices." Kidnappers prefer isolated drops for the ransom delivery, not wanting to chance a face-to-face meeting. CASKU profilers also observed that placing JonBenet's body in the basement indicated the involvement of a parent, rather than an intruder. A parent would not want to place the body outside in the frigid night. They pointed out the use of the blanket that was found on her that day.

5) Denver Post columnist Chuck Green wrote in December of 2006 that the investigators, having inspected PR's bedroom, felt "that her side of the Ramsey bed hadn't been slept in."

6) In 1997, a picture of JonBenet in the now-legendary Showgirl outfit turned up and it showed JonBenet with a huge, angry-looking bruise on her arm. At their presentation of evidence in June 1998, a photo of Patsy and JonBenet was shown where Patsy could be seen holding JonBenet's arm so hard that her fingernails were digging into the arm. Is that a coincidence?

7) In his book, Det. Thomas states:
"In mid-September, a panel of pediatric experts from around the country reached one of the major conclusions of the investigation - that JonBenet had suffered vaginal trauma prior to the day she was killed. There were no dissenting opinions among them on the issue, and they firmly rejected any possibility that the trauma to the hymen and chronic vaginal inflammation were caused by urination issues or masturbation. We gathered affidavits stating in clear language that there were injuries 'consistent with prior trauma and sexual abuse' ' There was chronic abuse'. . . 'Past violation of the vagina'. . .'Evidence of both acute and injury and chronic sexual abuse.' In other words, the doctors were saying it had happened before."

Thomas does not name these experts. But other sources, including Schiller's book, do name them. Their names read as follows:

-Dr. James Monteleone, Professor of Pediatrics at St. Louis University School of Medicine (and Director of Child Protection Cardinal Glennon Children's Hospital);

-Dr. David Jones, Professor of Preventative Medicine and Biometrics at University of Colorado Health Sciences Center;

-Dr. Ronald Wright, former Medical Examiner, Cook County Illinois;

-Dr. Virginia Rau of Dade County, Florida;

-and Dr. John McCann, Clinical Professor of Medicine, Department. of Pediatrics at University of California at Davis. According to McCann, examination findings that indicate chronic sexual abuse include the thickness of the rim of the hymen, irregularity of the edge of the hymen, the width or narrowness of the wall of the hymen, and exposure of structures of the vagina normally covered by the hymen. His report stated that there was evidence of prior hymeneal trauma as all of these criteria were seen in the post mortem examination of JonBenet.
Lastly, Thomas writes in his book that, during an evidence presentation in June 1998, Det. Jane Harmer gave the gathered group an anatomy lesson. She showed side-by-side photographs of JonBenet's vagina and that of a normal six-year-old girl. "Even to the uninitiated, the visual difference was apparent."

8) In the autopsy report, JonBenet's intestine was explored. Inside was a greenish substance that could have been digested plant material such as fruit or vegetables. As Det. Thomas and Det. Smit later confirmed, it was, in fact, pineapple, the same kind that was found in the bowl on the counter of the Ramsey home kitchen. In Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, the coroner's report said that the pineapple was in "near-perfect condition" with "sharp edges" and appeared to have been "poorly chewed." The pineapple in the bowl was fresh, not canned. Smit told John Ramsey in 1998 that it was a "big bugaboo."
The average rate of digestion for pineapple is two hours. It can take as little as one-and-one-half hours, or as long as three hours. This can be affected by the person's metabolism or any illnesses they might have. To narrow it down, the police investigated what JonBenet might have eaten that day. According to Fleet and Priscilla White, they did not serve pineapple at their party on Christmas night. They did serve cracked crab, and apparently, JonBenet liked it enough to ask to take some home. Fleet White obliged. It's likely that whatever she had eaten was already processed by the time of her death, since no cracked crab was found.
Now, the Ramseys have always said that JonBenet fell asleep in the car on the way home and remained asleep until she was killed. The pineapple is important because it puts the lie to the idea that JonBenet was asleep. The Ramseys arrived home at 10:00 PM. Dr. Werner Spitz estimated the time of death as around 1:00 AM. That means that JonBenet had to have eaten the pineapple after she got home. Since the only fingerprints found on the bowl and spoon belonged to Patsy and Burke, JonBenet didn't get to it herself. She couldn't reach the top of the counter, so she'd need to climb on something to reach it, but nothing was out of place. None of the kitchen chairs were moved. So, someone had to get it for her. This is the big lie the Ramseys were caught in. To this day, they contend that no one in the house fed it to her, and even they can't swallow the idea that an intruder gave it to her, then waited the two hours for it to digest before he killed her. During the 1998 interviews, the first day John Ramsey was interviewed, he said that no one fed JonBenet pineapple under any circumstances, since she wouldn't have eaten it from an intruder anyway. Det. Thomas writes in his book, quote:

"The very next day he retracted that firm statement, saying his lawyer chastised him for making it. Nether he nor Patsy fed her pineapple, he said, but then he asked, 'What if she knew the intruder?' After thinking about it, he said, 'It hit me like a ton of bricks.' JonBenet 'adored' Santa Bill McReynolds, and if he had come into her room, she would have gotten out of bed and gone downstairs with him without a problem. 'She may have had a secretly prearranged meeting.' he said. 'Maybe he fed her pineapple.' The detectives stopped the tape and watched that section repeatedly. Only the day before, Ramsey had said such a thing was impossible. Now he laid it on Santa Bill."

And that's not even the WHOLE thing. Not by a long shot it isn't. But the magician does not reveal all of his secrets.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

This is all rather rambling RDI stuff.

Nothing in here to indicate JBR knew her attacker. Nothing at all, other than the RDI argument.

Was there a list of actual case facts (e.g. JBR heard screaming someone's name) that would cause us to believe she knew her attacker? A claim of fibers or a claim of PR's stair climbing expertise aren't case facts at all, SD.