Henry Lee's comment on the Touch DNA

[Ames]

I have to admit it confused the heck out of me, too.

LOL, maybe there is some sort of subliminal message behind it.

 

[BBB167893]

LOL, maybe there is some sort of subliminal message behind it.

Now, now. Part of my approach is being willing to listen.

 

[Ames]

Now, now. Part of my approach is being willing to listen.

Yeah, me too. But, I still can't figure out why he agreed that John and Patsy are guilty. Maybe he didn't realize that he had hightlighted that part. Either way, I am more confused than ever about his post.

 

[BBB167893]

Yeah, me too. But, I still can't figure out why he agreed that John and Patsy are guilty.

I'm pretty sure he didn't agree to THAT, Ames. It's one thing to agree to evidence; it's another thing to admit guilt.

Maybe he didn't realize that he had hightlighted that part. Either way, I am more confused than ever about his post.

Yeah, but only he knows.

 

[DeeDee249]

The pineapple in JBR's stomach was traced to the pineapple in the bowl on the dining table. (this was confirmed with lab tests), and the pineapple in the bowl was sourced to pineapple found in the R fridge. All three sources of pineapple were tested and all three were found to be identical.

 

[angelwngs]

Okay, I don't get it. You are agreeing with me that there is more evidence that points to that of the parents doing it, instead of an intruder ?

Shhhhhh....... Don't ask that just yet, please....

Can't we just throughly soak up every second of this peaceful 'light bulb' moment for just a little while longer???

 

[JMO8778]

Okay:

Show of hands: how many people here find me uncertain?

NOT me.You've been very factual and straight to the point.
And yes,the chronic sexual abuse was shown to be fact;I'm not sure how Holdon can justify blowing that off.It just can't be done.

 

[JMO8778]

I can only guide you to the floor plan



How do you mean?



No. The coming out of JB's bedroom, you turn right and are immediately faced with the spiral staircase on the left and the main staircase on the right. Now, at that point, you could go either way, although the main staircase would be a lot easier. Once you hit the ground floor, then it gets tricky. If you took the main staircase, you could just keep going to the basement.
BUT, if you took the spiral staircase, you'd come out on the first floor, you'd have to go left, turn left again to head through the kitchen, keep going through a doorway and hit the main staircase.



Not very. She later said it might have been JB's "negative energy."



Not that I know of.

as far as the scream goes,Stanton's husb. also said he heard something after Melody heard the scream,which was the scraping sound of metal being moved against concrete.since there were paint cans in the wine cellar that might have been moved to put the body in there,I believe this and the fact he as well heard something during that time frame adds credibility to hearing an actual scream.I also think Melody was threatened into recanting her statement;Barnhill across the st. made a recantation as well,regarding seeing JAR walking across the R's yard that morning.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Here's the floor plan of the Ramsey home.

http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jonhouse1016.htm

Thanks. Interesting that the spiral staircase IS the path one would take to go from JBR's room to the basement, while avoiding the parent's end of the house.

Very odd, though, that an intruder would presume the parents to take those stairs while looking for JBR. Why not put it on the stairs connecting the R's bedroom to JBR's bedroom? Or better yet, on the main stair landing at the 2nd floor. That would be the most obvious.

 

[JMO8778]

You have supplied facts, its true. You posted that JR was on the right, a Republican. I'd be interested in some facts, thats for sure, maybe you'll help:

Where were the phones located in the R's house?
What was the source of the pineapple?
Is the stairs where the RN was found on the most direct path from JBR's bedroom to the basement?
How credible was the scream witness? Was there more than one witness to the scream?

Hold,if you were to come to my house,I'd ask you to help move the living room furniture around,then I'd say I didn't like it there,then I'd ask you to move it back,then I'd change my mind again,and ask you to move it around some more..and so on and so forth,until I was satisfied with it.then when you got ready to leave,I'd say once again I'd changed my mind,and I'd again ask for help moving it around,and if you didn't want to help anymore,I'd say fine,I will ask you again next visit.
this is the kind of runaround you are giving us.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I'm pretty sure he didn't agree to THAT, Ames. It's one thing to agree to evidence; it's another thing to admit guilt.



Yeah, but only he knows.

True, true.

The other occupants of the house in which a murder takes place are naturally each going to have some amount of implicating evidence, even if they had nothing to do with it.

Guilt by osmosis?

Meanwhile, we have even less evidence on the real perp. That could change like it did with, say, Ted Kaczynski.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

And yes,the chronic sexual abuse was shown to be fact;

Its not an official position on the part of any LE. Why not tell us when you think it was shown to be a 'fact' as you put it (what year).

 

[Ames]

Shhhhhh....... Don't ask that just yet, please....

Can't we just throughly soak up every second of this peaceful 'light bulb' moment for just a little while longer???

LOL, I think that I spoke too soon! Darn it!

 

[Ames]

Thanks. Interesting that the spiral staircase IS the path one would take to go from JBR's room to the basement, while avoiding the parent's end of the house.

Very odd, though, that an intruder would presume the parents to take those stairs while looking for JBR. Why not put it on the stairs connecting the R's bedroom to JBR's bedroom? Or better yet, on the main stair landing at the 2nd floor. That would be the most obvious.

Hold, this is also something that we can agree on. No matter WHO you believe placed the note at the bottom of the spiral staircase, it doesn't make sense that it would have been left there. Why not in JB's bed? I believe THAT would have been the most logical place. Since there more than one set of stairs, how would an intruder know which one the Ramsey's went down in the morning when they woke up? Patsy was questioned about this too, during her 98 interview. Also, someone that is coming DOWN the stairs (Patsy, John) would have to step OVER or ON the note to get to the bottom of the stairs. I just don't get why the note was left where it was. (Of course in MY theory it was never placed on the stairs to begin with.)

 

[Roy23]

You have supplied facts, its true. You posted that JR was on the right, a Republican. I'd be interested in some facts, thats for sure, maybe you'll help:

Where were the phones located in the R's house?
What was the source of the pineapple?
Is the stairs where the RN was found on the most direct path from JBR's bedroom to the basement?
How credible was the scream witness? Was there more than one witness to the scream?

I understand that holdon is in a minority here but he is bringing his A game here. When so little is known and the facts are so disputed in a case like this, it is so easy to point blame at JR and PR. They had 12 years to make a case against them and failed. Now more evidence is pointing to a alternate solution. There are too many holes to make a case against the Ramsey's even with all of this information.

So you guys really think that one of the Ramsey's were sexually abusing their daughter for forty minutes after bashing her in the head before finally strangling her to death. A lot has been said and many books written. Had they waited until like 2008 to write their books, I think the tone and content would be different. This case is old news to many and not much money to be made on it anymore.

Anyhow, Holdon, I don't think you are being unreasonable at all.

 

[angelwngs]

I understand that holdon is in a minority here but he is bringing his A game here. When so little is known and the facts are so disputed in a case like this, it is so easy to point blame at JR and PR. They had 12 years to make a case against them and failed. Now more evidence is pointing to a alternate solution. There are too many holes to make a case against the Ramsey's even with all of this information.

So you guys really think that one of the Ramsey's were sexually abusing their daughter for forty minutes after bashing her in the head before finally strangling her to death. A lot has been said and many books written. Had they waited until like 2008 to write their books, I think the tone and content would be different. This case is old news to many and not much money to be made on it anymore.

Anyhow, Holdon, I don't think you are being unreasonable at all.

That is a very good sentence to support strangulation by the parent, if you take out the part about the sexual abuse lasting that long...

If you are Patsy Ramsey and you hit your child over the head in a fit of rage or even if it was an accidental blow to her head and the result was her being 'dead to the world' for forty minutes would you think there was much chance that she could possibly recover and lead any semblance of a normal life?

You have a "perfect child". People are already on your case about you 'prostituting her' in the public eye. You can fix a cut on her face with plastic surgery. But brain damage is a whole other ballgame. Remember now, you are dealing with Patsy. In my opinion Patsy saw a JonBenet as beyond repair. Her body was now proving to the World that Pasty was a failure as a mother. What could be worse, in the mind of Patsy Ramsey?

 

[Roy23]

That is a very good sentence to support strangulation by the parent, if you take out the part about the sexual abuse lasting that long...

If you are Patsy Ramsey and you hit your child over the head in a fit of rage or even if it was an accidental blow to her head and the result was her being 'dead to the world' for forty minutes would you think there was much chance that she could possibly recover and lead any semblance of a normal life?

You have a "perfect child". People are already on your case about you 'prostituting her' in the public eye. You can fix a cut on her face with plastic surgery. But brain damage is a whole other ballgame. Remember now, you are dealing with Patsy. In my opinion Patsy saw a JonBenet as beyond repair. Her body was now proving to the World that Pasty was a failure as a mother. What could be worse, in the mind of Patsy Ramsey?

Okay, that is your opinion. I find it very hard to swallow that although Patsy is guilty of this to many, that John would be complicit. The very thought that John sexually abused his daughter and Patsy killed her is pretty farfetched. Believe me that I know that someone can quote a book that will give some theory as to why that might be true but I am not buying it.

Like I said previously, until the foreign DNA is resolved, this case will never see any convictions. Whether that is fair or not, I don't know. But that is the way it is.

 

[angelwngs]

Okay, that is your opinion. I find it very hard to swallow that although Patsy is guilty of this to many, that John would be complicit. The very thought that John sexually abused his daughter and Patsy killed her is pretty farfetched. Believe me that I know that someone can quote a book that will give some theory as to why that might be true but I am not buying it.

Like I said previously, until the foreign DNA is resolved, this case will never see any convictions. Whether that is fair or not, I don't know. But that is the way it is.

I understand where you are coming from and respect that it is your opinion as well. I sincerely feel that John and Patsy covered up the crime together to protect Burke, either that it was he, Papa Paugh, JR or PR 'abusing' JB and the neither of parents were willing to let the other go to jail and the other be left alone to raise a then very damaged Burke alone. It could very well have been PR agressively cleaning JB after soiling that justified and caused the vaginal trauma IMO. "Just spitballing".

Also, I do agree that it is important to the case to resolve the foreign DNA. I doubt that the case will ever be prosecuted even with that resolution unless the million to one chance happens and the DNA turns out to be that of a known criminal/sexual predator who can be placed in Boulder at the time of the murder. My disgust is that poor JB will never find justice.

Does anyone know Boulder's current track record (2000-2008) for plea bargains vs prosecutions of major crimes?

 

[Roy23]

"My disgust is that poor JB will never find justice."


I agree with that sentiment pretty much. Of course my opinion differs from yours in that I now believe there is a chance that this will be solved. I also felt bad for the Ramsey's if they of course were innocent. The one thing that makes me feel better when I think about this case is my belief in theory of our justice system. Many more innocent people have been put in jail or put to death based on opinions in other countries.

Because of our system protecting citizen's rights, we have developed more precise science to prove innocence or guilt. I want JB to have justice but no matter what we believe, I just don't think there is enough to say one way or another. I believe someone else killed her and you don't. I think a jury would render a not guilty verdict and it would not even be close. Now that doesn't mean that you are wrong but just saying.

 

[angelwngs]

"My disgust is that poor JB will never find justice."


I agree with that sentiment pretty much. Of course my opinion differs from yours in that I now believe there is a chance that this will be solved. I also felt bad for the Ramsey's if they of course were innocent. The one thing that makes me feel better when I think about this case is my belief in theory of our justice system. Many more innocent people have been put in jail or put to death based on opinions in other countries.

Because of our system protecting citizen's rights, we have developed more precise science to prove innocence or guilt. I want JB to have justice but no matter what we believe, I just don't think there is enough to say one way or another. I believe someone else killed her and you don't. I think a jury would render a not guilty verdict and it would not even be close. Now that doesn't mean that you are wrong but just saying.

Thank you, Roy. It is wonderful to be able to discuss this case with someone on the opposing side in their belief of 'who done it' and still have rational, civil, consiederate, respectful conversation.

My only counter point to your post above is that 'our justice system' and the Boulder justice system were apparently two polar opposite universes from what I have read. The "Dream Team" of lawyers, retired judges, etc. who offered help to BPD spoke volumes to me about how 'out of kiter' the Boulder DA's office performed in this case as well as their previous 'tried case' track record.

It seemed to me as if Boulder's goal was to exhibit themselves as a cross between the California state of mind, a bad episode of the Twilight Zone combined with the movie The Stepford Wives and a warped, mixed genepool from the marriage of Gary Busey to Shirley McClaine. Plain and simply, the words Boulder and justice should not ever be used in the same sentence in my opinion.

And I agree with you on your comment that you feel Boulder jurors would render a not guilty verdict and that it would not even be close. Move the trial to Denver, or fr the sake of argument to Atlanta or Dallas and...the results would be very different, IMO.