Henry Lee's comment on the Touch DNA

[Ames]

I've posted before that the placement of the RN is significant in IDI, not significant in RDI (the R's could simply say they found it on the stairs). IDI has to explain what advantage or purpose would an intruder have to place it on the rear spiral staircase.

I always thought the RN placed on the stairs could act as a tripwire to warn intruders that the parents were coming downstairs. Since the basement and spiral stairs are at nearly opposite ends of the house, I now doubt it would be a warning to someone in the basement. It could've been a warning to someone in the kitchen, though. That is, someone in the kitchen watching the main stairs while listening for the spiral stairs. Those are the only two ways to go from the 2nd floor to the first.

In a scenario where three intruders were present, one could've been in the kitchen while the other two were in the basement.

To answer your question, I'd say the parents would've encountered an armed intruder before making it to the basement, because an
intruder as concerned as you think they would be, could have been sitting in the kitchen while watching the main stairs and listening for the rear spiral stairs.

HUH? Holdon, that STILL wouldn't explain why the note was placed there. If someone was listening to see if anyone came down the spiral stairs, then they would hear them regardless. The note being placed at the bottom of the stairs, isn't going to make their footsteps any louder. Why the heck would they stick around to listen out for the Rams coming down the stairs ANYWAY? An intruder would know that they would EVENTUALLY have to come downstairs...and eventually find the note. What good does sticking around to hear them come down the stairs, do?
Intruder #1 to Intruder #2: (In a hushed tone) "Shhhhh, I think that I hear someone coming down the stairs". Intruder #2: "Which stairs are they coming down?" "#1: "I believe its the spirals, it sounds like light foot prints to me, it must be the mom. Yes, it is the mom, oh, oh, oh...she's found the note...I repeat, she has found the note. Do you copy? She is now READING the note". #2: "Yeah, ...well, okay. Now what?"

 

[angelwngs]

I've posted before that the placement of the RN is significant in IDI, not significant in RDI (the R's could simply say they found it on the stairs). IDI has to explain what advantage or purpose would an intruder have to place it on the rear spiral staircase.

I always thought the RN placed on the stairs could act as a tripwire to warn intruders that the parents were coming downstairs. Since the basement and spiral stairs are at nearly opposite ends of the house, I now doubt it would be a warning to someone in the basement. It could've been a warning to someone in the kitchen, though. That is, someone in the kitchen watching the main stairs while listening for the spiral stairs. Those are the only two ways to go from the 2nd floor to the first.

In a scenario where three intruders were present, one could've been in the kitchen while the other two were in the basement.

To answer your question, I'd say the parents would've encountered an armed intruder before making it to the basement, because an
intruder as concerned as you think they would be, could have been sitting in the kitchen while watching the main stairs and listening for the rear spiral stairs.

Ok...So now, three intruders could come in, do all that was done without awakening the R's and would leave their "kidnap victim" dead in the basement??? THREE INTRUDERS could not get a little six year old girl out???

Or are you about to tell me that they never intended to kidnap her? Why would a 'foreign faction' want to murder her and not kidnap her and then NEVER take credit for the murder publically? And why her???

 

[Ames]

Ok...So now, three intruders could come in, do all that was done without awakening the R's and would leave their "kidnap victim" dead in the basement??? THREE INTRUDERS could not get a little six year old girl out???

Or are you about to tell me that they never intended to kidnap her? Why would a 'foreign faction' want to murder her and not kidnap her and then NEVER take credit for the murder publically? And why her???

No angelwings...don't you SEE....the three intruders did not WANT to get JB out of the house. They wanted to stick around and listen out for someone coming down the stairs.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

HUH? Holdon, that STILL wouldn't explain why the note was placed there. If someone was listening to see if anyone came down the spiral stairs, then they would hear them regardless. The note being placed at the bottom of the stairs, isn't going to make their footsteps any louder. Why the heck would they stick around to listen out for the Rams coming down the stairs ANYWAY? An intruder would know that they would EVENTUALLY have to come downstairs...and eventually find the note. What good does sticking around to hear them come down the stairs, do?
Intruder #1 to Intruder #2: (In a hushed tone) "Shhhhh, I think that I hear someone coming down the stairs". Intruder #2: "Which stairs are they coming down?" "#1: "I believe its the spirals, it sounds like light foot prints to me, it must be the mom. Yes, it is the mom, oh, oh, oh...she's found the note...I repeat, she has found the note. Do you copy? She is now READING the note". #2: "Yeah, ...well, okay. Now what?"

Who says? The intruder watching the front (remember, where the main stairs, front door, and basement are??) can't watch the back too, and cant hear someone coming down the spiral staircase. Did JR have army boots on, or is he a noisy walker? Is that how someone near the front of the house can magically hear JR or PR coming down the spiral stairs, all the way in the rear?

 

[JMO8778]

Exactly what would "the intruder" have done if one of the parents had awakened and come down to the basement while he was down there???

I guess Lou Smit would say he would have jumped up on the suitcase and made a hasty exit through that window that he used to enter the home...

I wanna scream!

he'd have locked John in the bathroom! (no,sry,that was Atlanta....)

 

[JMO8778]

Who says? The intruder watching the front (remember, where the main stairs, front door, and basement are??) can't watch the back too, and cant hear someone coming down the spiral staircase. Did JR have army boots on, or is he a noisy walker? Is that how someone near the front of the house can magically hear JR or PR coming down the spiral stairs, all the way in the rear?

THE intruder?! You said 3...If there were 3,then 2 would available as lookouts...but this is fiction anyway!!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Ok...So now, three intruders could come in, do all that was done without awakening the R's and would leave their "kidnap victim" dead in the basement??? THREE INTRUDERS could not get a little six year old girl out???

Or are you about to tell me that they never intended to kidnap her? Why would a 'foreign faction' want to murder her and not kidnap her and then NEVER take credit for the murder publically? And why her???

I believe they intended to kidnap her, and something went wrong. Either JBR screamed, she wasn't what they expected, they lost nerve on taking her out the front door, or they simply changed their mind.

I think the unsticky tape adds to the scream argument.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

THE intruder?! You said 3...If there were 3,then 2 would available as lookouts...but this is fiction anyway!!

Uh, 'the two gentlemen watching over your daughter' were in the basement. Just a guess.

 

[JMO8778]

He called D Foster and told him that the parents DID NOT DO THIS...
(which was totally out of line as it could have influenced his results.)

I think he also said something like 'aw GEEZZZZZZZZZZZ...' when told experts thought Patsy had written the RN...like he really didn't want it to be true...too much conflict of interest,I'm sure.

 

[JMO8778]

Uh, 'the two gentlemen watching over your daughter' were in the basement. Just a guess.

sure,they were watching an empty basement,instead of being lookouts...makes sense.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

THE intruder?! You said 3...If there were 3,then 2 would available as lookouts...but this is fiction anyway!!

No more or less fictional than chronic abuse or crime scene staging. Its all theory, and thats all you've got.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

sure,they were watching an empty basement,instead of being lookouts...makes sense.

Uh, the 'two gentlemen' would've been in the basement with JBR. Hello?

 

[JMO8778]

Exactly. It only flys in the mind of IDIs because they have to keep explaining the abrupt psychological shifts of the intruder. First it's a team from a small foreign faction which hates American but respects John's business. Then it often morphs into a co-worker with a grudge. Then the guy with a grudge becomes a kidnapper. Then suddenly he's no longer a kidnapper, but a paedophile. Then he's not just perv, but also a murderer. No intruder would have taken her into the basement.

exactly,and if someone respected his business,then why KN his daughter? JB wasn't well-known bf this,she was obscure.
Going for someone high up in D.C. would be the target.

 

[JMO8778]

I believe they intended to kidnap her, and something went wrong. Either JBR screamed, she wasn't what they expected, they lost nerve on taking her out the front door, or they simply changed their mind.

I think the unsticky tape adds to the scream argument.

well at least you admit it was unsticky...

 

[JMO8778]

Uh, the 'two gentlemen' would've been in the basement with JBR. Hello?

IF the IDI theory were true,then they'd be lookouts for someone carrying JB down the stairs.IF it was a screw-up,then WHY would they be in the basement to begin with,if that wasn't even planned?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

well at least you admit it was unsticky...

Not really. I was using RDI 'unsticky' argument for IDI, thats all. I read that JR had to remove the tape from JBR's mouth, and that would lead one to believe it was firm on her mouth.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

IF the IDI theory were true,then they'd be lookouts for someone carrying JB down the stairs.IF it was a screw-up,then WHY would they be in the basement to begin with,if that wasn't even planned?

Here, I'll slow down for you. If IDI, then JBR was brought to the basement from her bedroom. If there were three intruders, JBR would be managed by two of them, just like the RN stated. Remember 'the two gentlemen watching over your daughter' implies that two are with JBR while one isn't.

It doesn't take much imagination to see that JBR would not be able to go straight from her bedroom thru the front door or the side door into the night. Probably the blanket, 2nd ligature, and tape were added to JBR in the basement as preparation to move her to the car.

Its not that complicated.

 

[JMO8778]

Not really. I was using RDI 'unsticky' argument for IDI, thats all.

I know,that's what I meant.It was said to have tan fibers on it,thus already used.you don't acknowledge that.

I read that JR had to remove the tape from JBR's mouth, and that would lead one to believe it was firm on her mouth.

so he says.I think FW may have said differently? I'm not sure about that,but it seems he was bewildered by the tape,and went back again to look at it.It appears he knew something was amiss,right off the bat.If it was used,I seriously doubt JR ripped it off of her mouth.It wouldn't have stuck very well.
IMO,one of the reasons JR 'found' JB was so that he could attempt to cover the sloppy parts of the staging..loose ligatures,used tape,etc.

 

[JMO8778]

Here, I'll slow down for you. If IDI, then JBR was brought to the basement from her bedroom. If there were three intruders, JBR would be managed by two of them, just like the RN stated. Remember 'the two gentlemen watching over your daughter' implies that two are with JBR while one isn't.

yes,but it implies a separate location,*after JB is removed from the house.
BTW,'watching over',per experts,implies JB was already dead when the note was written.

It doesn't take much imagination to see that JBR would not be able to go straight from her bedroom thru the front door or the side door into the night. Probably the blanket, 2nd ligature, and tape were added to JBR in the basement as preparation to move her to the car.

Its not that complicated.

yes, it surely does take a lot of imagination;it would probably take less than 30 secs. or so to bound and gag a small,sleeping child.the blanket would have already been there.you're saying intruders already had the other items with them,so it would take more time to move her and do the rest somewhere else.that doesn't make any sense.
besides that,why would someone assault her,then wrap her up,*then decide they were going to kill her??? makes no sense at all.

 

[Ames]

Who says? The intruder watching the front (remember, where the main stairs, front door, and basement are??) can't watch the back too, and cant hear someone coming down the spiral staircase. Did JR have army boots on, or is he a noisy walker? Is that how someone near the front of the house can magically hear JR or PR coming down the spiral stairs, all the way in the rear?

You are totally missing my point. You stated that the RN being placed on the spiral stairs would be a trip..to let the intruders know when someone came down the stairs? HOW? How is placing a note on the steps, going to alert the intruder if anyone comes down them? If the intruder had of installed some sort of ALARM to go off when Patsy found the note..that would be ONE thing...but, if the intruder is listening out for someone to come down the spiral staircase, because they are not in view of the spiral staircase, placing a note there is not going to make Patsy or John's footsteps any harder. Do you know what I mean? Do you see where I am coming from? IOW...just because the intruder placed the note on the spiral staircase, doesn't mean that the intruder will automatically be able to hear someone coming down them. Does that make sense to you?