GUILTY HI - Carly Joann 'Charli' Scott, 27, pregnant, Makawao, 9 Feb 2014 - #3

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  • #801
Excellent point. He had all of Monday that he was not working.

I have a hard time accepting the theory that SC was resigned to getting caught and was dead set on murder no matter the cost. I thank RDS for putting the idea out, and I don't know SC IRL at all and have little to go on, I admit. Here are my hurdles to belief:
1) We have a fair amount of quotes from SC that he wasn't ready to be tied down by a kid because he had "plans" in life. We also know he had a big crush and she was coming back and he may have wanted to get kid out of the picture.

So getting caught for murder and arson is not a downer on plans and settling in with the girlfriend? It is worth it to him why, because he hated Charli? There's no evidence I've seen of hate: I can see annoyed, I see his disdain and poor treatment, I see his problems with mothers. I don't see the desire to obliterate her at all costs to his own pathetic life that he values quite a lot it would seem.

I see signs that he unraveled after the news came out in March that they ID'd her bone that got left at the scene, not to mention all the pressure from the community, the name calling, people calling him a monster. Before that I saw a guy trying to do damage control and hoping he got away with it.

I don't think he planned on or resigned himself to being caught, at least not on a conscious level. You might or might not be able to convince me that subconsciously, killers leave a trail of clues.

I think he was desperate, delusional and paranoid. And in his desperation, he made a plan, but either forgot to include the details, or had to improvise for reasons unknown. I also think that he was convinced that someone he knew had seen him that night. IMHO, he thought the whole thing would blow over in a few weeks. :moo:
 
  • #802
I've wondered too what would drive such malicious behavior. Why did they have to die?

I've never been angry enough to want to kill. Did Steven really think her family would just go on with life? Did he really think his life would drastically improve with Charli and Joshua gone?

Steven Capobianco is crazy and I think we must resign ourselves to the fact that we may never get the reason for his bad decisions on February 9, 2014.

We need to find their remains. Pua has outlined a pretty dismal case against Steven. Finding them is the only way to keep him in jail.
 
  • #803
I don't think he planned on or resigned himself to being caught, at least not on a conscious level. You might or might not be able to convince me that subconsciously, killers leave a trail of clues.

I think he was desperate, delusional and paranoid. And in his desperation, he made a plan, but either forgot to include the details, or had to improvise for reasons unknown. I also think that he was convinced that someone he knew had seen him that night. IMHO, he thought the whole thing would blow over in a few weeks. :moo:
Yes, this sounds right.
The info that he was seen came from "from the ladle." That info said way past Hana. That's always puzzled me, because to me "past Hana" is towards Kipahulu and around to Kaupo, if your viewpoint is from Haiku. But no one else has talked about going that far on the Hana Highway. Certainly if you go from Honomanu to Nahiku, and drop the dog, you might decide to just drive the loop and come back to Haiku from the south. The south coast is so desolate too.
 
  • #804
Yes, this sounds right.
The info that he was seen came from "from the ladle." That info said way past Hana. That's always puzzled me, because to me "past Hana" is towards Kipahulu and around to Kaupo, if your viewpoint is from Haiku. But no one else has talked about going that far on the Hana Highway. Certainly if you go from Honomanu to Nahiku, and drop the dog, you might decide to just drive the loop and come back to Haiku from the south. The south coast is so desolate too.

Yeah, "way past Hana" sounds like Hamoa Beach and beyond.
 
  • #805
Why did Seven Sacred Pools just pop in my head. Was that mentioned somewhere? Was there a search there?
 
  • #806
Excellent point. He had all of Monday that he was not working.

I have a hard time accepting the theory that SC was resigned to getting caught and was dead set on murder no matter the cost. I thank RDS for putting the idea out, and I don't know SC IRL at all and have little to go on, I admit. Here are my hurdles to belief:
1) We have a fair amount of quotes from SC that he wasn't ready to be tied down by a kid because he had "plans" in life. We also know he had a big crush and she was coming back and he may have wanted to get kid out of the picture.

So getting caught for murder and arson is not a downer on plans and settling in with the girlfriend? It is worth it to him why, because he hated Charli? There's no evidence I've seen of hate: I can see annoyed, I see his disdain and poor treatment, I see his problems with mothers. I don't see the desire to obliterate her at all costs to his own pathetic life that he values quite a lot it would seem.

I see signs that he unraveled after the news came out in March that they ID'd her bone that got left at the scene, not to mention all the pressure from the community, the name calling, people calling him a monster. Before that I saw a guy trying to do damage control and hoping he got away with it.


He didn't have any plans in life that's hilarious. He didn't love the new girlfriend because psychopaths don't love. He was obsessed with the chase. He cared more about what people thought than about what is good for any individual. Same him. It's not about self preservation because there's not accurate sense of self. It's about hurting other people taking them down a notch to prove to him self that no one else is good either. That they must be dumber than him if they love him... and we all know "everyone on the island seemed to love him"

IMO you're wrong. "It is worth it to him why, because he hated Charli? There's no evidence I've seen of hate:"
What more evidence you want? Heinous murder is just poor treatment?
 
  • #807
Why did Seven Sacred Pools just pop in my head. Was that mentioned somewhere? Was there a search there?

In all my following of this case I do not remember this. Maybe it's a sign...
 
  • #808
Yes, this sounds right.
The info that he was seen came from "from the ladle." That info said way past Hana. That's always puzzled me, because to me "past Hana" is towards Kipahulu and around to Kaupo, if your viewpoint is from Haiku. But no one else has talked about going that far on the Hana Highway. Certainly if you go from Honomanu to Nahiku, and drop the dog, you might decide to just drive the loop and come back to Haiku from the south. The south coast is so desolate too.

My friends live in Haiku and we have driven the loop back to Haiku that way - in daylight. I think it is highly unlikely that he went that direction. He had a lot of loose ends to tie up, and I'm pretty sure that he'd take the shorter - and smoother route back. But who knows?
 
  • #809
My friends live in Haiku and we have driven the loop back to Haiku that way - in daylight. I think it is highly unlikely that he went that direction. He had a lot of loose ends to tie up, and I'm pretty sure that he'd take the shorter - and smoother route back. But who knows?
I was thinking of the opportunities for hiding things where no one would look. I have driven the road too (also in daylight). I actually preferred it to Hana Highway. Anyhow, he would have had little chance of encountering people he knew.

Ohe'o Gulch (the pools that are not seven and not sacred) is part of Haleakala National Park now, so I would think access is gated or possible ranger presence at night, but maybe not? When I visited it was not NP yet, so my experience doesn't help.
 
  • #810
I've wondered too what would drive such malicious behavior. Why did they have to die?

I've never been angry enough to want to kill. Did Steven really think her family would just go on with life? Did he really think his life would drastically improve with Charli and Joshua gone?

Steven Capobianco is crazy and I think we must resign ourselves to the fact that we may never get the reason for his bad decisions on February 9, 2014.

We need to find their remains. Pua has outlined a pretty dismal case against Steven. Finding them is the only way to keep him in jail.
Yes, the important reason for figuring out WHAT exactly happened is the WHERE mystery of the remains and any evidence that has survived the environment for two years, if any. The only reason for me to want to get inside SC's damaged brain (other than a desire to understand what drives people) is that his process, his decisions, guided the WHERE and WHAT that night.

If the attack and murder occurred on Sunday night in Honomanu, then I think there is a good chance he chose the spot for its isolation and had a plan for disposing of her remains there, not somewhere else. If Honomanu was a red herring and a dance he led everyone on, then the search should have been elsewhere. Pretty simple.
If he was really with her to have a discussion and lost it in the process, and killed her without forethought, then his cleaning up process would likely be sloppy. If he premeditated for weeks, then the answer to how he hid the two victims could be much more elaborate.

When we talk about Occam's Razor, which is the fewest number of steps from one point to another -- that is based on the given set of facts. It does not mean that human behavior is always efficient and streamlined, I mean look at the human race's behavior and it's apparent that's not true.

So if the given set of facts is "he killed her and Joshua in a fit of rage in an isolated place, at night," it is reasonable to assume he dealt with it without adding unnecessary complications.

If the given set of facts is "he wanted them dead and he brooded over it and he planned for a month and even rehearsed part of his scenario" -- then the plan on what to do after could have been elaborate. Occam's Razor would then operate to keep him more or less on track with carrying out that scheme, but the scheme itself could be whatever his twisted brain planned to do.
 
  • #811
He didn't have any plans in life that's hilarious. He didn't love the new girlfriend because psychopaths don't love. He was obsessed with the chase. He cared more about what people thought than about what is good for any individual. Same him. It's not about self preservation because there's not accurate sense of self. It's about hurting other people taking them down a notch to prove to him self that no one else is good either. That they must be dumber than him if they love him... and we all know "everyone on the island seemed to love him"

IMO you're wrong. "It is worth it to him why, because he hated Charli? There's no evidence I've seen of hate:"
What more evidence you want? Heinous murder is just poor treatment?
I appreciate so much your insights into SC's personality, RDS. Re the "hate" remark, yeah, it depends on what we mean by hate and it was too broad a term. I agree that the murder must reflect hate. I was thinking of hot passionate hate that throws aside all thought of consequences, a hate so hot that facing life in prison doesn't scare him -- versus cold methodical hate that treats the other person like a bug to be squashed so he can get on with his selfish life and keep his freedom. I was just thinking that if he doesn't like what she did to chain up his life (his perception), he would really not like the idea of living in a correctional facility.

I thought carefully about the traits you explain for his personality, and I settled on Narcissistic Personality Disorder as a possible good fit. Because no one is crazy in all possible ways. Mental deviation goes along certain tracks (sometimes multiple disorders hand in hand, but never all the disorders). Maybe you would like to take a look. I'm using the Wikipedia link because it's more accessible than a diagnostic guideline. It's pretty good, I think. There is a list of subsets. One is Malignant narcissist. There is where you find the homicidal narcissist. Maybe he wasn't always in that category, but crossed the line under "stress."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
 
  • #812
I culled out some of the long article for qualities that sound like SC, both from what you on Maui have described, and from his own posting, and interviews with others involved.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
__________

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder in which a person is excessively preoccupied with personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity, mentally unable to see the destructive damage they are causing to themselves and others.

A. Significant impairments in personality functioning manifested by:

1. Impairments in self functioning (a or b):
a. Identity: Excessive reference to others for self-definition and self-esteem regulation; exaggerated self-appraisal may be inflated or deflated, or vacillate between extremes; emotional regulation mirrors fluctuations in self-esteem.
b. Self-direction: Goal-setting is based on gaining approval from others; personal standards are unreasonably high in order to see oneself as exceptional, or too low based on a sense of entitlement; often unaware of own motivations.AND

2. Impairments in interpersonal functioning (a or b):
a. Empathy: Impaired ability to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others; excessively attuned to reactions of others, but only if perceived as relevant to self; over- or underestimate of own effect on others.b. Intimacy: Relationships largely superficial and exist to serve self-esteem regulation; mutuality constrained by little genuine interest in others' experiences and predominance of a need for personal gain

B. Pathological personality traits in the following domain:

  1. Antagonism, characterized by:
a. Grandiosity: Feelings of entitlement, either overt or covert; self-centeredness; firmly holding to the belief that one is better than others; condescending toward others.

b. Attention seeking: Excessive attempts to attract and be the focus of the attention of others; admiration seeking.
Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements).
Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.
Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions).
Requires excessive admiration. Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations.
Is inter-personally exploitative, i.e.,takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends.
Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.
Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes.

To the extent that people are pathologically narcissistic, they can be controlling, blaming, self-absorbed, intolerant of others’ views, unaware of others' needs and of the effects of their behavior on others, and insistent that others see them as they wish to be seen.
Narcissistic individuals use various strategies to protect the self at the expense of others. They tend to devalue, derogate and blame others, and they respond to threatening feedback with anger and hostility.

People who are narcissistic commonly feel rejected, humiliated and threatened when criticised. To protect themselves from these dangers, they often react with disdain, rage, and/or defiance to any slight criticism, real or imagined. To avoid such situations, some narcissistic people withdraw socially and may feign modesty or humility. In cases where the narcissistic personality-disordered individual feels a lack of admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation, they may also manifest a desire to be feared and be notorious (narcissistic supply).

It has been suggested that narcissistic personality disorder may be related to defenses against shame. Psychiatrist Glen Gabbard suggested NPD could be broken down into two subtypes. He saw the "oblivious" subtype as being grandiose, arrogant, and thick-skinned, and the "hypervigilant" subtype as being easily hurt, oversensitive, and ashamed. In his view, the oblivious subtype presents for admiration, envy, and appreciation of a powerful, grandiose self that is the antithesis of a weak internalized self, which hides in shame, while the hypervigilant subtype neutralizes devaluation by seeing others as unjust abusers.
 
  • #813
I see I need to fix the formatting there. Also the "subtypes" were formatted as a Table and wouldn't copy. You will need to follow the link to read them.
The five subtypes are Unprincipled, Amorous, Compensatory, Elitist and Malignant Narcissist.
 
  • #814
I appreciate so much your insights into SC's personality, RDS. Re the "hate" remark, yeah, it depends on what we mean by hate and it was too broad a term. I agree that the murder must reflect hate. I was thinking of hot passionate hate that throws aside all thought of consequences, a hate so hot that facing life in prison doesn't scare him -- versus cold methodical hate that treats the other person like a bug to be squashed so he can get on with his selfish life and keep his freedom. I was just thinking that if he doesn't like what she did to chain up his life (his perception), he would really not like the idea of living in a correctional facility.

I thought carefully about the traits you explain for his personality, and I settled on Narcissistic Personality Disorder as a possible good fit. Because no one is crazy in all possible ways. Mental deviation goes along certain tracks (sometimes multiple disorders hand in hand, but never all the disorders). Maybe you would like to take a look. I'm using the Wikipedia link because it's more accessible than a diagnostic guideline. It's pretty good, I think. There is a list of subsets. One is Malignant narcissist. There is where you find the homicidal narcissist. Maybe he wasn't always in that category, but crossed the line under "stress."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

I cast my vote for "cold, methodical hate".
 
  • #815
KS on public FB is telling SC to be very afraid of GPR (ground penetrating radar). I hope it is for real being employed and works for a break through.
 
  • #816
I don't see it, is it current?
 
  • #817
KS on public FB is telling SC to be very afraid of GPR (ground penetrating radar). I hope it is for real being employed and works for a break through.
Can I get an Amen! Go Kim, find your little girl! Never forgotten, Justice for Charli and Joshua.
 
  • #818
I don't see it either.
 
  • #819
  • #820
January 23
 
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