GUILTY HI - Carly Joann 'Charli' Scott, 27, pregnant, Makawao, 9 Feb 2014 - #6

[Mamamerced]

Below is a picture of the 4 cut marks on Charli's jawbone. The defense made the point that the left two marks show exactly the same width apart as the right two marks. The expert then acknowledged that this was true, and suggested a "two pronged" instrument, while maintaining that the depth of the marks indicated a sharp knife-blade (and not animal teeth).
Does anyone have any ideas about a type of sharp two-pronged instrument that could have caused these two sets of scratches?

View attachment 101530

Coincidence might factor in here. There's not enough marks to indicate a pattern. Imo.

 

[PeterTosh]

Tomato knives are both pronged and serated

-Mox

Good Job

 

[Mamamerced]

Any ideas as to when SC would have had time to deflesh the jaw at Paraquats?
How long would it take if she was murdered Sun, 9 and defleshed Mon. or day/s after?
I picture it taking a bit of time but.......
Did SC have the luxury of time after Mon.?
And then there's the Why would he?

 

[ho'oponopono]

Any ideas as to when SC would have had time to deflesh the jaw at Paraquats?
How long would it take if she was murdered Sun, 9 and defleshed Mon. or day/s after?
I picture it taking a bit of time but.......
Did SC have the luxury of time after Mon.?
And then there's the Why would he?

Hi, I'm pretty new to commenting here but have been following the case, trial footage and this thread. I remember that the Kaisers said he left their house about 4:30pm Monday "in a hurry." It looks like he drove straight out to Nua'ailua (45 min) and pretty much straight back (his phone chooses home tower at 6:02 pm and keeps choosing it all night.) So whatever he did Monday, he did it quick. I've never defleshed a jawbone, but unless he had a tool, like a woodchipper or electric saw, I imagine it would take awhile.

 

[ho'oponopono]

Unless, he just picked up the body to dispose/chop it up elsewhere, close to or at home per the cell tower record. Then, he had all night.

 

[Mamamerced]

Hi, I'm pretty new to commenting here but have been following the story, case, trial footage and this thread. I remember that the Kaiser's said he left their house about 4:30pm Monday "in a hurry." It looks like he drove straight out to Nua'ailua (45 min) and pretty much straight back (his phone chooses home tower at 6:02 pm and keeps choosing it all night. So whatever he did Monday, he did it quick. I've never defleshed a jawbone, but unless he had a tool, like a woodchipper or electric saw, I imagine it would take awhile.

My thoughts too, Ho'oponopono.
Has anyone mentioned the possible reason for the jawbone being in two pieces? Cut, stepped on, animal activity?
I have no doubt SC killed Charli and Joshua, but don't get this defleshed jawbone and the timeframe.
No personal experience.

 

[Tssiemer]

Well I was dumb and googled how to deflesh a skull.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ho'oponopono]

My thoughts too, Ho'oponopono.
Has anyone mentioned the possible reason for the jawbone being in two pieces? Cut, stepped on, animal activity?
I have no doubt SC killed Charli and Joshua, but don't get this defleshed jawbone and the timeframe.
No personal experience.

Yesterday, Riviera asked Harle if the midline lower jaw break was consistent with a stomp, she said yes, so I think thats the prosecution's best theory. The defense is trying to make it look like a wild boar did the midline break as well as the scrapes on it. The timeline IMO points to having help.

 

[Mamamerced]

Yesterday, Riviera asked Harle if the midline lower jaw break was consistent with a stomp, she said yes, so I think thats the prosecution's best theory. The defense is trying to make it look like a wild boar did the midline break as well as the scrapes on it. The timeline IMO points to having help.

Thanks. I wasn't able to listen on Friday and only sporatically on Wed, so I'm falling behind.
I'm thinking help, also. I vascillate between an accomplice and only SC. The possibility is always there for me. I can't shake it off.

 

[ho'oponopono]

This article is a good review of Friday's testimony by Dr.Harle and doesnt seem to be hidden behind the paywall: http://mauinews.com/page/content.de...athologist-describes-injuries-to-jawbone.html

 

[ho'oponopono]

Mauinow hasn't published in an article in days, due to the flooding and storm I'm guessing.

 

[Mamamerced]

This article is a good review of Friday's testimony by Dr.Harle and doesnt seem to be hidden behind the paywall: http://mauinews.com/page/content.de...athologist-describes-injuries-to-jawbone.html

Interesting that the marks and injuries were only on one half of the broken jawbone.
So many more questions now.
The pathologist said the fingertips/nails could have come off from decomposition which could happen in 5 days with the kind of weather E. maui experiences. (juror question). But the body wasn't there for five days.....unless well hidden.
I need to quit thinking about this.

 

[Maisiebelle]

Could an animal have 'eaten' the body parts that were left? That would leave just the bones.....

 

[Moxie_McTavish]

Coincidence might factor in here. There's not enough marks to indicate a pattern. Imo.

You may be right, MM. There are another 2 scratches on the lower left and they do seem to be a little more wide-spaced than the other 2 sets, so maybe it wasn't a 2-pronged tool. Image of the 6 scratches on the jawbone:

Good Job

Thanks, PeterTosh. At this point though, I'm far from convinced that it's a two-pronged instrument that inflicted the injuries.

 

[Moxie_McTavish]

I slogged through 3 different videos of testimony by the forensic pathologist, Dr. Lindsey Harle. Based on the testimony of the forensic pathologist, I personally am throwing out the “defleshing” idea and possibly even the whole dismembering idea. This is such a lurid and sensationalistic theory of what happened to Charli’s remains, but I no longer think it holds water. I took notes on Dr. Harle’s testimony and basically she said:

There are 2 kinds of defects on the right portion of jaw fragment:
1) 6 linear incisions, &
2) 1 scrape mark: a square shaped grouping of superficial, evenly spaced parallell lines that could be from a serated knife or other tool with a regular pattern on it.

Both of these are in an area of the right jawbone that is bare bone, the flesh is gone.
Harle said there are 2 ways that both of these types of injuries could have been made:
-violently attacking the lower face with a sharp instrument
-carefully defleshing the bone

I find it much more likely that SC violently attacked Charli’s face/jaw/neck with a knife than the idea that he sat there carefully defleshing her jaw bone. Note that Steven was said to have worn a belt with a knife on it. Some do come with serated knives, like this one:

Now, regarding the fingernails with flesh attached found at the scene, she states that decomposition is hastened in Hawaii and out Hana Hwy especially due to 1) high temperatures (around 80 F or above) 2) high humidity 3) high rainfall. The combination of warmth and moisture hastens decomposition in a big way including the process called skin slippage, in which the skin quickly thins and starts to literally slip away. This would have happened to Charli’s fingernails within about 3 days in such an environment and she stated that if they brushed against the ground or branches, they would simply come right off i.e. when someone moved/dragged her body. So much for the theory that Steven hacked her fingertips off with a machete! I believe it’s likely that Steven dragged Charli’s body away & removed it on Wednesday because her body being there for several days would account for her fingernails coming off…and Thursday he was bleaching his truck and that’s also the day that Phaedra, Molly, & Max went there & found maggot infested items.


So, going back to the jawbone…Here is my new theory based on all the new forensic information:

Referencing the pic of Steven where he’s covering his mouth in horror while apparently looking at pics of Charli’s remains in the courtroom, he is holding his mouth with his left hand, and in his right hand is a pen. This leads me to believe that, like most people, SC is right-handed.

How would a right-handed person stab the right side of someone’s jaw? Awkward. It would be much more natural to stab the person’s left side with your right hand…but he didn’t. Also note the direction of incision-marks on the right jaw: they are slanted up toward her nose, NOT up in the opposite direction toward her ear. This leads me to believe that Steven was behind Charli, perhaps pulling her hair, as he plunged the knife into her lower right cheek, jaw, and neck with his dominant right hand. I find it likely that he was standing behind her when he inflicted those marks on the bone because they ALL slant upward and outward toward her nose. He either had her standing or had her stomach-down on the ground, while he was behind her, striking violently and repeatedly into her neck/jaw area with a knife.

Harle also discussed the two blunt-trauma fractures which broke the lower jawbone - 1 fracture occurred in the front and 1 in the back, splitting the lower jaw into two separate pieces. These were caused by very heavy blunt striking (to the chin?), like with a heavy pipe, sledgehammer, or fall on hard ground, etc. As Ho’oponopono mentioned, the prosecution asked “What about a stomp?” and she said “yes.”

I suggest that this fracturing of the lower jaw would have come about with Steven behind her, taking her hair and back of head, and smashing her face repeatedly on something hard: on the ground, on a rock, on part of the truck. It seems likely to me that it would have been a part of the same overall attack that produced the knife wounds in the exact same region. This impact would have fractured her jaw and her palette, producing the small palette bone that was found. The rapid decomposition/skin slippage that was responsible for her fingernails falling off would have also been responsible for her lower jaw coming apart when he moved the body days later, leaving the lower jawbone and small piece of palette bone - and of course the fingernails - behind, unbeknownst to him if he was in a big hurry. So he need not have taken a machete or axe and dismembered her; it may simply be that due to her injuries & decomposition, these bones fell away from the body during movement. This is my own theory. Flesh, fat, muscle, and fascia would have been loosened or cut away on the part of the jawbone that received the stabs during the attack, and rapid decomposition in the jungle would have denuded the area, and caused skin slippage/loosening. I don’t believe a deliberate “defleshing” occurred. We know that Steven moves very fast. He would not have sat there in the brush scraping flesh off some bone.

Just my 2 cents. - Mox



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[Maisiebelle]

Excellent post Moxie!

 

[heartgoesout]

Mox, I was thinking the same thing. If slippage caused the fingers then it could have caused the face. I'm having a hard time visualizing the information.
I still feel even weeks into the trial there are no answers. The phone data is confusing, the damage to the jaw is confusing, the timeline is confusing.

 

[heartgoesout]

Could an animal have 'eaten' the body parts that were left? That would leave just the bones.....

There was testimony this particular area is not known to have wild animals. ??

 

[Maisiebelle]

But they defense were arguing wild boars could have killed her. Very odd.

 

[puakenikeni]

All the above ideas about the violent murder (I am having trouble reading these things with focus, but thank you for putting it out there). -- they are accounting for the trauma that split the jaw. But they are not accounting for the closely and regularly spaced serrated knife type marks that led to the defleshing theory.

Loo said the police had a dismemberment theory, and police have testified they searched SC's residence for body parts. And Kim has stated the police told her Charli was dismembered. So all the talk of dismemberment is not wild theorizing, but is in line with the theory the police pursued from the time they recovered the jawbone.

While there was some soft tissue still on the jaw when found five days later, think about how much flesh and skin covers the jaw, a lot.

I think think the theory that she suffered a traumatic injury to her face and jaw while alive could sadly be the case. But still, where is her skull?

Re whether the area was known for wild boar, Loo said no, but obviously there was some feral pig presence as a young pig carcass was found decaying. But keep in mind that wild pigs do not eat the meat off the bone like dogs do. They crack and crunch up the bones. This jawbone is not all crunched up. It's been split, and had trauma, but it's still recognizable for what it is.