GUILTY HI - Carly Joann 'Charli' Scott, 27, pregnant, Makawao, 9 Feb 2014 - #6

[Kapua]

I couldn't watch trial. So SC and Charli were excluded from the blue jeans. What about the black? Just what we need....more mysteries. Ugh.
Maybe jeans and sweatshirt are not related to crime or even planted(?) perhaps.
Why do you think Rivera is laying such a foundation about the clothing?

To your question: "Why do you think Rivera is laying such a foundation about the clothing?"

I have no idea. So much of it was inconclusive or excluded SC. Unless I missed something, there was little in today's testimony to bolster the prosecution's case. If I was on the jury, I would be thinking "What was that all about?" What a colossal waste of time.

 

[Kapua]

Hard to believe Charli could have worn 32/30s. She must have been very narrow hipped and short legged. Wasn't she 5'10"?

How could the blue jeans belong to Charli if she was excluded based on DNA?

She was not excluded from the DKNY blue jeans.

 

[Mamamerced]

She was not excluded from the DKNY blue jeans.

Oops, sorry, Kapua. I kept reading it as Excluded. Mea culpa.

 

[Mamamerced]

To your question: "Why do you think Rivera is laying such a foundation about the clothing?"

I have no idea. So much of it was inconclusive or excluded SC. Unless I missed something, there was little in today's testimony to bolster the prosecution's case. If I was on the jury, I would be thinking "What was that all about?" What a colossal waste of time.

To echo PT....maybe/hopefully Rivera has a bombshell. Not holding my breath, though.

 

[Moxie_McTavish]

Here are my notes from the first half of today's session:

4 submitted bra swabs:
-no blood, no DNA detected (heat, rain, dirt, insects, environment cause degradation)

fingernail swabs:
-Charli cannot be excluded, high number strongly indicates a match

4 pieces jawbone tissue:
-4 pieces tested, no DNA obtained

Black Perry Ellis jeans from Paraquats:
-portion of waistband: vacuumed, partial dna profile consistent w/ mixture of 2 or more individuals was obtained, no
conclusions about CS or SC due to low levels of DNA, inconclusive result
-2 stains: not blood, no DNA test, water could have washed away any present blood

Gray Sweater:
-collar, armpits, cuff vacuumed: partial dna profile consistent w/ 2 individuals, CS & SC are excluded as contributors of DNA
-cuttings of 5 stains tested: no blood, no DNA

Black Bra:
-swabs of interior l & r cups: no blood detected, no DNA obtained
-vacuumed straps & cups: very low amounts of DNA obtained so inconclusive


Blue DKNY Jeans:
-area of waistband vacuumed: mixture of DNA consistent w/ 2 or more individuals, CS & SC cannot be excluded, but the available DNA is common to very many people (it has low frequency estimate number of 185)
-two stains sampled: swabbed & took a cutting: human blood: DNA obtained, Carly Scott a definite match (extremely high frequency estimate number); Steven excluded

 

[Moxie_McTavish]

Cannot be excluded = can be included.

Looks like the DKNY blue jeans are Charli's, if I understand correctly.

The DKNY jeans do not belong to Charli. The bloodstains on those jeans are a match for being Charli's blood. The DNA obtained from the waistband could not be excluded as belonging to CS or SC but it could belong to many other people as well due to its low frequency estimate number of only 185.

 

[Kapua]

The DKNY jeans do not belong to Charli. The bloodstains on those jeans are a match for being Charli's blood. The DNA obtained from the waistband could not be excluded as belonging to CS or SC but it could belong to many other people as well due to its low frequency estimate number of only 185.

Whatever. I'm done.

 

[PeterTosh]

The DKNY jeans do not belong to Charli.

Why do you say that?

 

[heartgoesout]

She was not wearing jeans.
I'm so confused.

 

[Moxie_McTavish]

Why do you say that?

1. Men's pants are sized 32 x 30, women's pants are sized with one number, for example "Size 7 jeans."
Both pairs of jeans are men's jeans of the exact same size.

2. Charli is 5' 10", fairly big-boned, and pregnant. A 32" waist would *never* fit her.

3. Kapua said if she understood correctly, the blue jeans belonged to Charli. I saw nothing suggesting that based on today's testimony. Did I miss something?

 

[PeterTosh]

Does DKNY make Mens pants?

 

[Moxie_McTavish]

Does DKNY make Mens pants?

yes..

 

[puakenikeni]

Thanks for the summary. . I can't get the volume high enough to hear on my laptop, which has crappy speakers but plays the commercials plenty loud. Sigh.Charli's ensemble outfit when last seen, skirt and top, was found at the scene, as we know, and was on her when she was stabbed, as they know from the punctures in the fabric, so .....an additional garment of jeans that belonged to her and had blood splashed on the lower legs, would only confuse the storyline, would it not?

Point being, I don't think we expect the jeans to be hers, so I don't see the point of arguing over whether she could have worn them, but I may be missing the possible significance.

 

[PeterTosh]

Thanks for the summary. . I can't get the volume high enough to hear on my laptop, which has crappy speakers but plays the commercials plenty loud. Sigh.Charli's ensemble outfit when last seen, skirt and top, was found at the scene, as we know, and was on her when she was stabbed, as they know from the punctures in the fabric, so .....an additional garment of jeans that belonged to her and had blood splashed on the lower legs, would only confuse the storyline, would it not?

Point being, I don't think we expect the jeans to be hers, so I don't see the point of arguing over whether she could have worn them, but I may be missing the possible significance.

2nd tier designer Jeans. Perry Ellis DKNY?? I dunno. Maybe he shops at Salvation Army or Savers. Maybe Im just not hip. Levi's, Lee's or Wranglers.


Get a BluToooth Speaker. Correct we didnt expect the jeans to be hers. We expected them to be his.

 

[puakenikeni]

When the judge said one piece of evidence would not be dispositive, note he did not say one piece of evidence would be dispositive of the DNA evidence. He was talking about all evidence in the case and how it didn't come down to one item of DNA but all the entwined evidence of all kinds.

I don't draw from that a hint of a DNA bombshell. I have no idea where Rivera is going with this, but I think at the least he is meeting some obligation to present a fair look at all the evidence. This should hamper the defense from coming on when it is their turn and yammering about Rivera and Jones hiding the lack of definitive DNA ties to SC. It's being disclosed up front.
I hope of course that something will be learned by this testimony.

 

[Moxie_McTavish]

Details from a few other items included in the second half of today's testimony:

Swabs form Mace container made by police:
-no DNA obtained

Swabs from blue DKNY Jeans made by police:
-swabs from legs of jeans (the blue jeans, or...?): no blood detected, dna tested but none obtained
-swabs from waistband of blue jeans: mixture 2 or more individuals, low levels of dna, so inconclusive

Blanket:
-all 8 stain samples were cuttings, not swabs
-blood tests were ALL negative, no blood on blanket
-no dna test done, no further testing
-river water could wash away presence of blood

 

[puakenikeni]

Get a BluToooth Speaker. Correct we didnt expect the jeans to be hers. We expected them to be his.

Good idea (I have a good one for the TV.) I'm getting a new computer any time that Apple releases the new laptops, so I'm just struggling along until then, maybe in a month or so.

 

[Moxie_McTavish]

So I believe the black Perry Ellis jeans & hoodie would have been deposited at the riverbank on Wednesday night when the remains were removed, because the blanket & tape were also found at the riverbank, and we know the blanket was suffused with the smell of rot and likely had been covering the body for a period of time due to the maggot testimony. The jeans & hoodie had no blood on them, but the hoodie did have the DNA of two individuals that were NOT Steven or Charli. So someone other than Steven may have removed the remains on Wednesday night.

Now, the blue pair of jeans DID have Charli's blood staining them. They were the same size as the other jeans, so likely worn by the same person. IMO they were likely deposited on Sunday, the night of the murder (because, again, there's reason to believe the black jeans were deposited during body removal of Wed. night). These jeans had a mixture of DNA from 2 or more people in the waistband, this DNA could match Steven or Charli but it could match many other people as well due to the low frequency estimate number. These were found beyond the guardrail at Kaumahina, going back toward Haiku from Paraquats.

But Steven was seen driving in the opposite direction into Hana on the night of the murder, most likely taking the back way around the island....driving far away from where that bloody pair of pants were deposited.

Hmmmmm....I'm not so sure he did the actual murder anymore, guys. This new info is very fascinating and very hard to interpret.

 

[Mamamerced]

So I believe the black Perry Ellis jeans & hoodie would have been deposited at the riverbank on Wednesday night when the remains were removed, because the blanket & tape were also found at the riverbank, and we know the blanket was suffused with the smell of rot and likely had been covering the body for a period of time due to the maggot testimony. The jeans & hoodie had no blood on them, but the hoodie did have the DNA of two individuals that were NOT Steven or Charli. So someone other than Steven may have removed the remains on Wednesday night.

Now, the blue pair of jeans DID have Charli's blood staining them. They were the same size as the other jeans, so likely worn by the same person. IMO they were likely deposited on Sunday, the night of the murder (because, again, there's reason to believe the black jeans were deposited during body removal of Wed. night). These jeans had a mixture of DNA from 2 or more people in the waistband, this DNA could match Steven or Charli but it could match many other people as well due to the low frequency estimate number. These were found beyond the guardrail at Kaumahina, going back toward Haiku from Paraquats.

But Steven was seen driving in the opposite direction into Hana on the night of the murder, most likely taking the back way around the island....driving far away from where that bloody pair of pants were deposited.

Hmmmmm....I'm not so sure he did the actual murder anymore, guys. This new info is very fascinating and very hard to interpret.

What are you thinking, Moxie? That he delivered her to her killer? Backstory?
Possibly pants and hoodie planted by SC to thwart investigation? He went back numerous times, we assume.
I'm going to go join Kapua.

 

[puakenikeni]

Details from a few other items included in the second half of today's testimony:

Swabs form Mace container made by police:
-no DNA obtained

Swabs from blue DKNY Jeans made by police:
-swabs from legs of jeans (the blue jeans, or...?): no blood detected, dna tested but none obtained
-swabs from waistband of blue jeans: mixture 2 or more individuals, low levels of dna, so inconclusive

Blanket:
-all 8 stain samples were cuttings, not swabs
-blood tests were ALL negative, no blood on blanket
-no dna test done, no further testing
-river water could wash away presence of blood

Moxie, I'm confused about the blue DKNY jeans, because your first half notes say there was blood and it matched Charli, but here in the second half it is a negative for blood. Can you explain why two opposing results to poor me who hasn't seen the video yet?

How odd no blood on the blanket that had more maggots than any other article.
My mama taught me cold water washes out blood and hot water sets it permanently, as no doubt we have all learned. Still, have you tried washing out dried set bloodstains with nothing but cold water? Good luck with that. Not even with targeted scrubbing and real machine washing, not without Shout or Biz or Clorox 2 or oxyclean or some such product.

I wonder if there was some other material covering her that was taken away, like plastic, and the blanket only came into use after a few days had passed and the blood was long dried. Or, regardless of some other covering, the blanket was not used until later, when there was no more blood but heavy decomposition to account for the insects. What do you guys think?