Hiker photographs bear just before fatal grizzly attack

[LadyL]

a man without a healthy fear of a bear is asking to be attacked

he decided to take how many photos? and he was how close?

yeah, I only have sympathy for the bear who was killed because a human being made a foolish choice to value photos over his own life

 

[Quiche]

The way I see it-- if I was eating an everyday salad (grazing) and someone with a aromatic platter of T-Bone steaks stopped and stared at me for fifteen minutes, I'd charge him too! Steak is waaaaay better than the same old, same old.

I understand the bear, but I can't say the same for the actions of the man. oke:

jmo

 

[Steely Dan]

The other nite there was a woman with a flashlite in my yard, it was thought there was a baby bear running around with no momma. Couple of nites later about 1am i hear this sleerpy wierd sound bears make, so me and my plate of bacon and eggs midnight snack( i was thinking i could i could attract the poor little baby bear) walked into the road(hwy actually) baby to the left,somewhere within the next 2 short driveways.
Then i hear a crack, look right, momma bear charged, that was an interesting experiance.
I'm guessing it the same momma bear that a couple of years ago had 2 cubs ,she left her cubs up the trees behind my back yard, when she returned, momma would nap by the fence. So for that summer i did not use my back yard. i did do the bang the pans noise thing, seems she felt i was calling her for dinner, over the fence she came.(brown bears)

Conservation would do nothing, the population of the town is 10,ooo

I agree with culling,the Denali bear was over confidant, when i lived in the boonies, see a bears, mutual respect, walk away from each other.
The man was taking pics - he was in the open- no threat 50-100yards(average trailer is lenth 60-70ft) 0ne yard=3ft so (some people use football fields-i use trailers to judge distance)so 20 yards one trailer? So he was 2-3 or more trailers away- that bear's attitude was the problem.
Just like people, bears, dogs, cats, whatever-some just ain't nice to get along with- we put people in jail for murder, i think the rules should be the same for all life forms.
Bear meat can be tasty, skins are beauty -so i don't like the cull, unless they use it wisely. . This town is my space,the local bear huggers, don't have bears in their back yard.
if you let people hike thru Denali, bears must be culled if they are not tourist friendly, as said by Trackersam- ya gotta deal with reality- ya gotta make a choice- is it tourist freindly or a maybe deadly hike . The bear, not the man with the camera, caused the problem, he was within a (3 trailers or more) space - bear should of walked.

Animals being offered food by humans will definitely lose their fear of humans and will begin to relate food to humans. People feeding a wild animal often cause that animal to be killed because it then hangs around people's homes because it wants the food.

:goodpost:

I'm surprised to see more sympathy for the bear than the man.....

It's just an animal doing what it needed to to do to protect itsself from a perceived threat....
The man was stupid and violated the rules of the park. He had a much more advanced brain and knew better.

That's my reasoning anyway

:goodpost:

 

[Jacie Estes]

I'm surprised to see more sympathy for the bear than the man.....

The bear was just being a bear...the human, on the other hand, knows how to read.

 

[Jacie Estes]

The other nite there was a woman with a flashlite in my yard, it was thought there was a baby bear running around with no momma. Couple of nites later about 1am i hear this sleerpy wierd sound bears make, so me and my plate of bacon and eggs midnight snack( i was thinking i could i could attract the poor little baby bear) walked into the road(hwy actually) baby to the left,somewhere within the next 2 short driveways.
Then i hear a crack, look right, momma bear charged, that was an interesting experiance.
I'm guessing it the same momma bear that a couple of years ago had 2 cubs ,she left her cubs up the trees behind my back yard, when she returned, momma would nap by the fence. So for that summer i did not use my back yard. i did do the bang the pans noise thing, seems she felt i was calling her for dinner, over the fence she came.(brown bears)

Conservation would do nothing, the population of the town is 10,ooo

I agree with culling,the Denali bear was over confidant, when i lived in the boonies, see a bears, mutual respect, walk away from each other.
The man was taking pics - he was in the open- no threat 50-100yards(average trailer is lenth 60-70ft) 0ne yard=3ft so (some people use football fields-i use trailers to judge distance)so 20 yards one trailer? So he was 2-3 or more trailers away- that bear's attitude was the problem.
Just like people, bears, dogs, cats, whatever-some just ain't nice to get along with- we put people in jail for murder, i think the rules should be the same for all life forms.
Bear meat can be tasty, skins are beauty -so i don't like the cull, unless they use it wisely. . This town is my space,the local bear huggers, don't have bears in their back yard.
if you let people hike thru Denali, bears must be culled if they are not tourist friendly, as said by Trackersam- ya gotta deal with reality- ya gotta make a choice- is it tourist freindly or a maybe deadly hike . The bear, not the man with the camera, caused the problem, he was within a (3 trailers or more) space - bear should of walked.

I understand when the bears come into residential areas it is dangerous. Where this particular bear was is not residential. We were driving through Rosebud rez about 4am one morning when DH got out to 'write his name in snow'. He got back in the car real quick; cute bear cubs walked up near him so he knew Mama was around.


Bear medicine is also very powerful. It doesn't require killing the bear.
http://www.birdclan.org/bear.html

 

[JenniferTx]

The way I see it is like this. I don't like to swim in the ocean because of the dangers of sharks. I don't want a shark coming into my house so why would I want to go to the shark's house (the ocean) unless I expect to be the shark's lunch.

 

[Gardenlady]

If people want to visit these places, then they must do so with respect, and knowledge of how not to disturb the creatures whose home it is.

When I swim in the Atlantic, I know that, while rare, sharks have been seen, and I don't go in if I know there are seals about (as there seem to be more and more - a product of encroachment of THEIR environment), as the shark will be there for the seals. I go in knowing I could be stung by a jellyfish, and when I see them I give them wide berth. I don't bother the creatures - that's their home. I would t go into a person's home and provoke them, why would I do it to an animal?

And although I'm a city girl, I do hike, and often alone. I don't stealth camp, I stick to designated areas - for both minimizing impact on the environment, and for my own safety and the safety of the wildlife. I have a whistle, a bell, bear spray (though our bears out east are more laid back, there have been attacks, and there are other critters too), and I sing outloud when alone to let them know I'm coming. I don't APPROACH them be ause I want to take pictures or get a better look. The way I look at it is, I'm a trespasser, and the less I bother the residents the better for all of us.

The guy took a risk. A foolish one. As said, the bear was just being a bear. THe man has no excuse, just his own folly. And that's sad for him, but mostly for the bear. Bear was just doing what he was supposed to do - the guy was doing the opposite of what he should have done. :twocents:

 

[TrackerSam]

The way I see it-- if I was eating an everyday salad (grazing) and someone with a aromatic platter of T-Bone steaks stopped and stared at me for fifteen minutes, I'd charge him too! Steak is waaaaay better than the same old, same old.

I understand the bear, but I can't say the same for the actions of the man. oke:

jmo

There's no argument here. My point is that there is no our space their space. There's only one space and we share it. For those that think there's a OSTS then define "our space". It can't be done

Being mauled by an animal is one of the worst ways to die.
You can blame the man, but he had as much a right to be there as the bear.
Man is an animal and has every right to be on any surface of the world as any animal. There's only ONE space.
You shouldn't try to spin it into something else with this one incident when my only argument was with the stupid OSTS comment.

 

[Gardenlady]

But the problem is, humans have used up more than their fair share of the space. There are very few places on earth left for some of these creatures. If we hadn't set about developing every square foot of earth we possibly could, I might agree with you that it is everyone's space. But we have overdeveloped to the point where there are some places where we just need to look at it as THEIR space, and leave them alone.

And that's overlooking the fact that animals like this bear, do not get our concept of "property rights" lol. You can put up all the "no bears" signs you want, but if bear wants to walk down your street or rummage through your garbage, he will do it, sign or no sign. If it is I deed everyone's space, as you say, then you must follow that conclusion to its logical end, and let the bear wander your neighborhood free from harm. It's his space too. :twocents:

 

[TrackerSam]

These things happen in places that aren't parks with rules and warnings.
My point has nothing to do with this man's judgement.

Your challenge - DEFINE OUR SPACE.

 

[TrackerSam]

Conservation would do nothing, the population of the town is 10,ooo

I agree with culling,the Denali bear was over confidant, when i lived in the boonies, see a bears, mutual respect, walk away from each other.
The man was taking pics - he was in the open- no threat 50-100yards(average trailer is lenth 60-70ft) 0ne yard=3ft so (some people use football fields-i use trailers to judge distance)so 20 yards one trailer? So he was 2-3 or more trailers away- that bear's attitude was the problem.
Just like people, bears, dogs, cats, whatever-some just ain't nice to get along with- we put people in jail for murder, i think the rules should be the same for all life forms.
Bear meat can be tasty, skins are beauty -so i don't like the cull, unless they use it wisely. . This town is my space,the local bear huggers, don't have bears in their back yard.
if you let people hike thru Denali, bears must be culled if they are not tourist friendly, as said by Trackersam- ya gotta deal with reality- ya gotta make a choice- is it tourist freindly or a maybe deadly hike . The bear, not the man with the camera, caused the problem, he was within a (3 trailers or more) space - bear should of walked.

Thank you. That is also the judgement of the people who run Denali. They must know what they're doing.

 

[TrackerSam]

The way I see it is like this. I don't like to swim in the ocean because of the dangers of sharks. I don't want a shark coming into my house so why would I want to go to the shark's house (the ocean) unless I expect to be the shark's lunch.

So because you don't scuba dive no one should?

 

[Jacie Estes]

But the problem is, humans have used up more than their fair share of the space. There are very few places on earth left for some of these creatures. If we hadn't set about developing every square foot of earth we possibly could, I might agree with you that it is everyone's space. But we have overdeveloped to the point where there are some places where we just need to look at it as THEIR space, and leave them alone.

And that's overlooking the fact that animals like this bear, do not get our concept of "property rights" lol. You can put up all the "no bears" signs you want, but if bear wants to walk down your street or rummage through your garbage, he will do it, sign or no sign. If it is I deed everyone's space, as you say, then you must follow that conclusion to its logical end, and let the bear wander your neighborhood free from harm. It's his space too. :twocents:

BBM Unfortunately, that is when somebody gets all up in arms, literally, and an animal gets killed because someone didn't want them in 'their' space.

Some prefer canned hunting, others have respect.

 

[Jacie Estes]

I really would like to see the last pictures that guy took. Prolly the bear flipping him off. LOL

 

[mysterygirl]

The bear was just being a bear...the human, on the other hand, knows how to read.

Yes. The man got too close.

I've just been taught to care more about the human being than the wild animal.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Yes. The man got too close.

I've just been taught to care more about the human being than the wild animal.

That human may just win the Darwin Award this year. People who don't know how to live in/visit where wildlife are should stay home.

 

[TrackerSam]

But the problem is, humans have used up more than their fair share of the space. There are very few places on earth left for some of these creatures. If we hadn't set about developing every square foot of earth we possibly could, I might agree with you that it is everyone's space. But we have overdeveloped to the point where there are some places where we just need to look at it as THEIR space, and leave them alone.

And that's overlooking the fact that animals like this bear, do not get our concept of "property rights" lol. You can put up all the "no bears" signs you want, but if bear wants to walk down your street or rummage through your garbage, he will do it, sign or no sign. If it is I deed everyone's space, as you say, then you must follow that conclusion to its logical end, and let the bear wander your neighborhood free from harm. It's his space too. :twocents:

Define "our space". And we will continue to expand. Define
'our space".

 

[TrackerSam]

But the problem is, humans have used up more than their fair share of the space. There are very few places on earth left for some of these creatures. If we hadn't set about developing every square foot of earth we possibly could, I might agree with you that it is everyone's space. It's his space too. :twocents:

"It's his space too" means that we are sharing the space, thank you, that's my point. How much humans have used up depends on who you ask. We get this argument alot in Florida because of the gators. What it boils down to is this - "everyone who came here after I did should leave". National parks are set asides from this developement, not as a refuge from humans. Let's not get tied down with where this happened either. Not every piece of wilderness is a national park. I should think most wilderness is not a national park and on occasion a human has a fatal encounter with wild animals.

 

[Gardenlady]

Are you asking what "our space" is, in practice? Or what I think "our space" should mean, ideally? Because you probably won't like my answer to the latter, lol. Or the former probably, for that matter.

IMO, we live out of balance with the natural world. We have used up more than our fair share of the space on this earth. Not just for living (and we do our living out of balance too - homes and lots far too big for what is needed by most), but for profit. When we are out of balance with the natural world, we drive the wildlife out of their spaces; if they are lucky, they adapt to new places. If they are not, they become endangered. We isolate them in these areas, and yet even then we trespass on what we have deemed their territory. (and boy, there is a big human parallel to this as well ) And then when natural conflict occurs from that (a bear attacks a human who went in without respect), the bear pays with his life. Why? When it is we humans who insist on entering the only spaces left for these creatures?

Ideally, we would not live out of balance. The earth is able to sustain a huge population of both animals and humans. I am not talking overpopulation - but overuse and overdevelopment. I feel we here in the US are more guilty of this than other countries - we like everything bigger here. Bigger meals, bigger cars that use more fuels and pollute more, bigger houses with bigger rooms and every child gets their own instead of sharing space. Bigger lots so we don't have to deal with neighbors. Bigger suburban towns because people decided they don't want to live with others in towns or cities. And we don't make good use of the space in our suburbs (requiring more driving, more roads, more development). It is all out of balance, and because of that we are encroaching on the last spaces that we have "allowed" other animals to have for themselves. They suffer for it, and so do we.

That's my very rushed, not very well worded answer to both those questions.

 

[CanManEh]

The bear killed this man is a national park where the animals are protected that is thier space.. A grizzly can smell a person from a mile away so he was aware .That's why you have a zoom on your camera ..The bear doesn't have the ability to go else where he can't drive he cant book a flight drive a boat but we can so you keep saying define our space how about dont go where the bears live this didn't happen on a downtown street it was a protected national park...If your worried about your space stay the heck out.