HODGE-PODGE - LISK-related

[deedee21]

Hawkshaw, It would work. People would join the force in record numbers. As it stands we have a fake war on drugs.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I have this crazy idea how you can eliminate the drug problem. It could really work, but it will NEVER happen LOL, tell me what you think. Forget about the obvious silliness of it, just if it will work.

I always believed that if you gave the cops a 10% bounty of all the cash recovered on a drug arrest and maybe 5% of the wholesale price of the drugs seized the drug trafficking would disappear like a bucket of steam on a cold night. You wouldn't have to give them overtime to pursue the drug dealers.

Back in my day the vice cops, we called them 'plainclothesmen' were always considered the cops that would make the best detectives. Those cops had a vested interest in finding gamblers to supplement their income. LOL. Trouble is when the cops found the gamblers they didn't arrest all of them. That gave rise to the Knapp Commission.

When I was assigned to the detective division I was assigned to the Manh. DA Sqd. I learned it was the practice of the office NOT to take on former plainclothesman It was tough enough to keep any cop honest and they certainly didn't want anyone that was already probably corrupted.

We had 2 detectives in our office. One guy could never shake off his time he spent undercover with the gangsters. He carried it forward. The bosses thought he was salvageable and so they assigned a straight arrow named AL to partner up with him hoping the straight arrow would influence the tainted guy. I guess you know what happened. It didn't work out the way boss wanted it.

The problem are not the people with a drug problem. The problem are as usual, the people who have a problem without drugs. And those crazies yelling on Yahoo to legalize drugs at whatever the questions was. So, we live in a society, that loses step by step it's orientation, everything is about the individual, everything is what each individual wants. And since what individuals want is not always good for them or the same often not good for those around said individual, we end up with an increasing number of messes. A Magnotta is as much a symptom as a Melchior Deffenbaugh (sp?) as an Israel Keyes or as any guy selling drugs to kids, because he can.
So, what would happen, if you give modern new cell phone kids accidentally becoming cops 10% of the drug business in exchange for catching the traffickers? Well, they will probably negotiate about 20% with the traffickers. Not because they are evil. But because that is what they learned in their childhood, in their teenage years and now everyday from politics and society. And really, don't think for a moment, that is a specific US problem.

 

[deedee21]

I think we should remove the stigma that recreational drugs have. If grown adults want to smoke pot who am I to tell them they can't? They can't tell me I'm not aloud to have a beer. It's just insanity for people to think they should make decisions for other adults. Also it's not a new thing that a lot of the new drug problems are prescribed to people.

As an adult and a mother, I would have no problem telling my adult children I dont want them smoking pot or doing any other drugs.

 

[mcme]

I have this crazy idea how you can eliminate the drug problem. It could really work, but it will NEVER happen LOL, tell me what you think. Forget about the obvious silliness of it, just if it will work.

I always believed that if you gave the cops a 10% bounty of all the cash recovered on a drug arrest and maybe 5% of the wholesale price of the drugs seized the drug trafficking would disappear like a bucket of steam on a cold night. You wouldn't have to give them overtime to pursue the drug dealers.

Back in my day the vice cops, we called them 'plainclothesmen' were always considered the cops that would make the best detectives. Those cops had a vested interest in finding gamblers to supplement their income. LOL. Trouble is when the cops found the gamblers they didn't arrest all of them. That gave rise to the Knapp Commission.

When I was assigned to the detective division I was assigned to the Manh. DA Sqd. I learned it was the practice of the office NOT to take on former plainclothesman It was tough enough to keep any cop honest and they certainly didn't want anyone that was already probably corrupted.

We had 2 detectives in our office. One guy could never shake off his time he spent undercover with the gangsters. He carried it forward. The bosses thought he was salvageable and so they assigned a straight arrow named AL to partner up with him hoping the straight arrow would influence the tainted guy. I guess you know what happened. It didn't work out the way boss wanted it.

Hawkshaw, while there's not much doubt this would be effective in reducing drug related crimes, what would it do to the rate of crimes that offer no $ reward like rape, murder, car theft, child abuse etc...

 

[Peter Brendt]

As an adult and a mother, I would have no problem telling my adult children I dont want them smoking pot or doing any other drugs.

There was a case in NY, a few years ago. No names because the victim is still alive. A back then little boy (today not that little anymore. And a group of 8 adults, who thought, all the talk about recreational drugs including psychoactive substances is just bull. So they stoned themselves on a regular base and then, when stoned enough, raped that boy. All eight. Every time. Because you know, those guys were sure, psychoactive substances wouldn't do any harm to their judgment.

And since I'm already about to tell some trivia, another little story. I was standing at a bus stop, thinking nothing bad. A driver, stoned like hell, lost control over his car and raced in this bus stop. Four people, including me were injured. I have still some problems with my leg (well, it wasn't injured for the first time, I have some mileage), and therefore, it is hard to convince me, especially on days the weather changes, that psychoactive drugs are no big deal.

 

[WINDSOR]

I always thought the way to get rid of the drug problem was to legalise them. The small percentage of the population who would abuse drugs would do it legally or illegally, but at least the drug business would not be an income source for the criminal enterprises.

I did some research about the Opium Wars in China between the British and the Chinese. The British fought to maintain the right to sell opium the the Chinese, so it was a war over profits.

According to the information I read, 25% of the adult male Chinese population was addicted to opium where the British had distribution control. So contrary to what I believed, human beings are not self-regulating when it comes to addictive and or illicit drugs; especially when there is a profit motive for the vendor.

Drug usuage will only decline when a) individuals realise that drug usage is not healthy,fun and enjoyable in the long term.

As long as people feel a enjoying joint or snorting a line is harmless we will have a drug problem.

MOO

 

[Peter Brendt]

I always thought the way to get rid of the drug problem was to legalise them. The small percentage of the population who would abuse drugs would do it legally or illegally, but at least the drug business would not be an income source for the criminal enterprises.

I did some research about the Opium Wars in China between the British and the Chinese. The British fought to maintain the right to sell opium the the Chinese, so it was a war over profits.

According to the information I read, 25% of the adult male Chinese population was addicted to opium where the British had distribution control. So contrary to what I believed, human beings are not self-regulating when it comes to addictive and or illicit drugs; especially when there is a profit motive for the vendor.

Drug usuage will only decline when a) individuals realise that drug usage is not healthy,fun and enjoyable in the long term.

As long as people feel a enjoying joint or snorting a line is harmless we will have a drug problem.

MOO

One question, just from curiosity. What will you tell the family of the victims of the Speed Freak Killers, what to the families of the victims of Coral Watts, what to the family of the victims of muggings driven by the need to finance the habit, what will you say to those victims who get raped by guys under the influence of their enjoyable drugs, what will you say to all of them after politics would follow your suggestion? Just curious.

 

[OnTheCase27]

As an adult and a mother, I would have no problem telling my adult children I dont want them smoking pot or doing any other drugs.

Well that doesn't mean they have to listen to you. And I wasn't referring to telling our children. I mean if my neighbor wants to smoke a joint after work in the privacy of his own home who am I tell him he can't?

One question, just from curiosity. What will you tell the family of the victims of the Speed Freak Killers, what to the families of the victims of Coral Watts, what to the family of the victims of muggings driven by the need to finance the habit, what will you say to those victims who get raped by guys under the influence of their enjoyable drugs, what will you say to all of them after politics would follow your suggestion? Just curious.

That already happens and some drugs are illegal. Let's not act like mass hysteria would happen with legalizing drugs. People who want to use drugs will seek them out whether they are legal or illegal. Why not take the control out of the drug cartels hands?

What do you say to people who lose their loved ones to drunk drivers, alcohol abuse, prescription drug abuse or any legal way to ruin your life? In my opinion the crime is probably worse because the drugs are illegal. Do you see drive by shootings because of bootlegging alcohol? Not anymore but when alcohol was prohibited there were incidents of people being killed over the control and sale of alcohol. Just like today when some drugs are illegal people are killed over the control and sale of them.

 

[Samantha Spade]

When I used to volunteer counseling individuals who were legally required to go through drug and alcohol abuse/addiction counseling I would notice many just staring at the walls, bored out of their minds.
I made a suggestion to the director that we should put real picture before and after brain scan spect images on those empty walls. have you ever seen what drugs and alcohol abuse do to your brain?
It is scary! Massive holes and black spots, shrinkage, etc.
A picture speaks a thousand " just say no's".

http://www.brainplace.com/


I don't know if they ever took my advice. I had to leave. I wasn't emotionally strong enough to handle all the deaths.

 

[fred&edna]

The top three criminal industries: Arms, drugs, sex-trafficking (I'm unsure of the order)
It's all about $$ and power. It's a sad world.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Well that doesn't mean they have to listen to you. And I wasn't referring to telling our children. I mean if my neighbor wants to smoke a joint after work in the privacy of his own home who am I tell him he can't?



That already happens and some drugs are illegal. Let's not act like mass hysteria would happen with legalizing drugs. People who want to use drugs will seek them out whether they are legal or illegal. Why not take the control out of the drug cartels hands?

What do you say to people who lose their loved ones to drunk drivers, alcohol abuse, prescription drug abuse or any legal way to ruin your life? In my opinion the crime is probably worse because the drugs are illegal. Do you see drive by shootings because of bootlegging alcohol? Not anymore but when alcohol was prohibited there were incidents of people being killed over the control and sale of alcohol. Just like today when some drugs are illegal people are killed over the control and sale of them.

If someone causes a car accident injuring or killing people under the influence, he/she shall do the time for it because it's manslaughter. Simply that.
However, the drugs we talked about are psychoactive substances. I have seen here and elsewhere too many cases in which those drugs were the psychologically enabling factor. Of course, our society has also invented other enabling factors. Still, I don't see the advantage in making those drugs freely available which means indirectly also freely available for kids. So, in my opinion, psychoactive drugs should stay illegal and trafficking them should be punished a lot harder. In the end, we talk about some substances that cause indirect far more lethal results than for example gun violence.

 

[Peter Brendt]

The top three criminal industries: Arms, drugs, sex-trafficking (I'm unsure of the order)
It's all about $$ and power. It's a sad world.

As long as we generalize things so easily, we will find no solution. For example sex-trafficking and drug-trafficking are connected. On the other hand, arms is a two edged sword. In countries with harsher gun laws, explosives and C-weaponry has become very popular (see Japan and Sarin gas attacks for example). While the one country that demands by law that every male citizen has a weapon and even gives them the weapons (Swiss) has the lowest numbers in gun violence at all. So there are more things than just guns, maybe the way we treat the subject? Maybe some social consensus never spoken about?

 

[WINDSOR]

One question, just from curiosity. What will you tell the family of the victims of the Speed Freak Killers, what to the families of the victims of Coral Watts, what to the family of the victims of muggings driven by the need to finance the habit, what will you say to those victims who get raped by guys under the influence of their enjoyable drugs, what will you say to all of them after politics would follow your suggestion? Just curious.

Peter I used the Opium Wars as an example why I am against leaglising drugs. Humans are not self-regulating.

I find it absolutely abhorent some states recently legalised marijuana use, it societal suicide.

 

[fred&edna]

As long as we generalize things so easily, we will find no solution. For example sex-trafficking and drug-trafficking are connected. On the other hand, arms is a two edged sword. In countries with harsher gun laws, explosives and C-weaponry has become very popular (see Japan and Sarin gas attacks for example). While the one country that demands by law that every male citizen has a weapon and even gives them the weapons (Swiss) has the lowest numbers in gun violence at all. So there are more things than just guns, maybe the way we treat the subject? Maybe some social consensus never spoken about?

Yes, we can go into more detail about these.
Yes, they can be related.
Yes, some unspoken consensus could be a factor.
I am certain I cannot provide a solution.
Finally, they still remain the top three criminal industries in the world and...
I still find it sad.

 

[hawkshaw]

I was just trying to put some levity into it and you guys get all serious with me. Fuggaditaboutit, it ain't gonna happen, i.e. a bounty for recoveries. There is a kind of bounty and that is overtime. Chump change thrown around like nickels and dimes. Funny thing about this funny solution I ran up the flagpole is it would probably work.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I was just trying to put some levity into it and you guys get all serious with me. Fuggaditaboutit, it ain't gonna happen, i.e. a bounty for recoveries. There is a kind of bounty and that is overtime. Chump change thrown around like nickels and dimes. Funny thing about this funny solution I ran up the flagpole is it would probably work.

A modern day " A Modest Proposal". Well done, Hawk.

 

[MoonUnderfoot]

I love your Avatar F&E!!!

 

[Peter Brendt]

Peter I used the Opium Wars as an example why I am against leaglising drugs. Humans are not self-regulating.

I find it absolutely abhorent some states recently legalised marijuana use, it societal suicide.

k, got it and take my apologies for not getting it the first time

 

[Peter Brendt]

Yes, we can go into more detail about these.
Yes, they can be related.
Yes, some unspoken consensus could be a factor.
I am certain I cannot provide a solution.
Finally, they still remain the top three criminal industries in the world and...
I still find it sad.

A weapon is like a tool. What you do with it is in your responsibility. Knives are also sometimes used to kill people. Especially in our business, we see a lot of people tortured and killed with knives. Still, for the knife, we make the difference. Not for a gun. And a gun, some can ban without thinking about the consequences. Only the consequences are maybe not funny. That is, why I like to think about details BEFORE I go for the big blunder. That saves me from claiming the arms industry is criminal when in fact a certain percentage of the arms users are criminal ... and this percentage will not care about gun bans for example.

 

[deedee21]

ON THE CASE A woman and her two sons lived down stairs from me. She moved and her sons remained. Every night there was a strong smell of pot in my bedroom. It came from the apt below. I spoke to him several times about it. He thought it was a joke and acted like a fool. He said he would smoke in another room. All a joke. I called his mother and reminded her that her name is on the lease and could she please have a talk with her son. She said "I have no control over him and you will have to learn to live with it."Needless to say, they dont live there anymore.