HODGE-PODGE - LISK-related

ON THE CASE A woman and her two sons lived down stairs from me. She moved and her sons remained. Every night there was a strong smell of pot in my bedroom. It came from the apt below. I spoke to him several times about it. He thought it was a joke and acted like a fool. He said he would smoke in another room. All a joke. I called his mother and reminded her that her name is on the lease and could she please have a talk with her son. She said "I have no control over him and you will have to learn to live with it."Needless to say, they dont live there anymore.

Which throws some light on another detail problem in the whole thing. If they would go and smoke their joints on the balcony (as is demanded nowadays from every normal tobacco smoker), it wouldn't be that bad. But usually, those clowns pester the whole building and some people get headaches from that stuff and have legitimate medical reasons not to like it. So, there comes often some recklessness with the habit.
 
Which throws some light on another detail problem in the whole thing. If they would go and smoke their joints on the balcony (as is demanded nowadays from every normal tobacco smoker), it wouldn't be that bad. But usually, those clowns pester the whole building and some people get headaches from that stuff and have legitimate medical reasons not to like it. So, there comes often some recklessness with the habit.

In addition to that there are companies that require drug testing for potential employees. A whole new layer of problems.
 
In addition to that there are companies that require drug testing for potential employees. A whole new layer of problems.

True! And when you go deeper, there is so much more. I tend to see those things a little bit in the light of how societies develop. That gives a possibility to compare older societies and actual ones side by side and see what worked, what not.

However, while the subject is interesting, and I admit, I started it ... is there somewhere a more fitting thread before I get accused to spread my opinions as opinions or something and block the LISK threads? I haven't found a thing like "Crime and Society" but that maybe means only, I was too stupid to look in the right place.
 
True! And when you go deeper, there is so much more. I tend to see those things a little bit in the light of how societies develop. That gives a possibility to compare older societies and actual ones side by side and see what worked, what not.

However, while the subject is interesting, and I admit, I started it ... is there somewhere a more fitting thread before I get accused to spread my opinions as opinions or something and block the LISK threads? I haven't found a thing like "Crime and Society" but that maybe means only, I was too stupid to look in the right place.

LOLL here Peter this will get u back on track. Thought u might be interested.

In October 2012, I wrote a blog, Can Criminal Profiling Really Identify a Murderer? premised on an FBI Psychological Profile that seemed unusually inaccurate. In that blog I also cited other examples of “off the mark” profiles. After that blog, two media outlets invited me to discuss profiling. One host asked me to identify any case that had been solved via a criminal profile. I could not think of one. That does not mean it hasn’t happened, only that in my experience I was not aware of any. At that time, and continuing through today, there is a serial killer on the loose in Long Island, NY. This killer’s profile, which identified a number of specific traits, some apparently from physical evidence, has not yet yielded an arrest.


http://michaeltabman.wordpress.com/2013/02/17/the-last-criminal-profile/
 
Profiles. May I suggest you ask Jeffrey Deskovic what he thinks about profiles. He had 16 years to think about it when he wasn't fighting for his life. A simple GOOG will get you there.
 
LOLL here Peter this will get u back on track. Thought u might be interested.

In October 2012, I wrote a blog, Can Criminal Profiling Really Identify a Murderer? premised on an FBI Psychological Profile that seemed unusually inaccurate. In that blog I also cited other examples of “off the mark” profiles. After that blog, two media outlets invited me to discuss profiling. One host asked me to identify any case that had been solved via a criminal profile. I could not think of one. That does not mean it hasn’t happened, only that in my experience I was not aware of any. At that time, and continuing through today, there is a serial killer on the loose in Long Island, NY. This killer’s profile, which identified a number of specific traits, some apparently from physical evidence, has not yet yielded an arrest.


http://michaeltabman.wordpress.com/2013/02/17/the-last-criminal-profile/




Field notes:

Richard Trenton Chase.
According to Robert Ressler, whoever fights monsters p.9


Wait. edit edit edit..
He states though some say his profile caught the killer, he adds," that of course was not true. It's never true. Profiles don't catch killers, cops on the beat do, often through dogged persistence and with the help of ordinary citizens, and certainly with the aid of a little bit of luck."
 
Field notes:

Richard Trenton Chase.
According to Robert Ressler, whoever fights monsters p.9


Wait. edit edit edit..
He states though some say his profile caught the killer, he adds," that of course was not true. It's never true. Profiles don't catch killers, cops on the beat do, often through dogged persistence and with the help of ordinary citizens, and certainly with the aid of a little bit of luck."

Nice that's us!!!!lol
 
In this article @JR it says that three of his victims bodies had never been found.

http://m.nydailynews.com/1.474203

Can someone tell me why none of the manorville victims are believed to be Rifkins? Was it just because he said they weren't or was it the dates or something else.
 
In this article @JR it says that three of his victims bodies had never been found.

http://m.nydailynews.com/1.474203

Can someone tell me why none of the manorville victims are believed to be Rifkins? Was it just because he said they weren't or was it the dates or something else.

he says no--probably true since he has no reason left to lie, and he would want full credit at this point to build his "legend"--the dates don't correspond, i believe, either--he killed 'til '93
 
he says no--probably true since he has no reason left to lie, and he would want full credit at this point to build his "legend"--the dates don't correspond, i believe, either--he killed 'til '93

Oh my, Rifkin as SK expert. I had so to laugh about his line "America breeds serial killers, you don't see SKs from Europe"

On behalf of Chikatelo, Eckert, Bartsch, von Zon, Fourniret, de Rais, Bathory, Overbye, Kürten, d'Aubray, Jegado, Kürten, Landru, Blauensteiner, Vacher, Weidmann, Denke, Stumpp, Gottfried, Wiese, Grossmann, Zwanziger, Mrazek, Weber, Malevre, Jack the Ripper, Jackthe Stripper, London Torso II, Dutroux, Ursinus, Petrovs, Ogorzow, Shipman, Copeland, Golovkin, Pilcik, Nykopp-Koski, Kroll, Pandy, Zelenka, Straffen, Mausley, Christie, the Lainz Angels of Death, et all, I would like to disagree with Mr. Rifkin. Europe has a long, extreme bloody and very twisted history of SKs. They are usually only not used so much to sell news.
 
Oh my, Rifkin as SK expert. I had so to laugh about his line "America breeds serial killers, you don't see SKs from Europe"

On behalf of Chikatelo, Eckert, Bartsch, von Zon, Fourniret, de Rais, Bathory, Overbye, Kürten, d'Aubray, Jegado, Kürten, Landru, Blauensteiner, Vacher, Weidmann, Denke, Stumpp, Gottfried, Wiese, Grossmann, Zwanziger, Mrazek, Weber, Malevre, Jack the Ripper, Jackthe Stripper, London Torso II, Dutroux, Ursinus, Petrovs, Ogorzow, Shipman, Copeland, Golovkin, Pilcik, Nykopp-Koski, Kroll, Pandy, Zelenka, Straffen, Mausley, Christie, the Lainz Angels of Death, et all, I would like to disagree with Mr. Rifkin. Europe has a long, extreme bloody and very twisted history of SKs. They are usually only not used so much to sell news.

YES, that quote made me laugh aloud as well--
 
Nice that's us!!!!lol

Since I was banned, I'm a little late on this one, still, let me say a few things to the subject of profiling, even it is not specific to the LISK case:

Profiles don't catch killers - definitively true.
Profiles are computer files or sheets of paper. They normally don't run out with a pair of handcuffs to arrest people. Cops have to read them and act accordingly.

- Profiles create and narrow down suspect pools
Example: In the case of Richard Chase Trent, the profile said, the unsub would be highly delusional and therefore not able to stray far from his home. Consequently, that meant, someone would know him in the area and it would be a good idea to provide as much information as possible to the public which would probably come back with a tip. And Ressler was right, the tip came, Trent was arrested. So what the profile actually did, was to narrow down the hunt to an area of some blocks and provide the public with information for what to look out for and where.

- Profiles provide non-obvious information
Example: Wayne Williams was an African-American serial killer in an African-American community. But nobody even looked for a black man. People "knew" there are no black SKs. The usual blah blah blah. The profile said, the unsub would be African-American, male, with a history of pretension of being law enforcement or something else trustworthy and he may used a ruse as some kind of music producer or someone with contacts to that business. Of course, it was not Douglas, who went and slapped some cuffs on Williams, cops did that. But the profile was what led the cops to him.

- Profiles are a tool to predict actions
Example: When the heat was on, my own profile said, Abuelazam would run. Since I had prfiled him as brown (as in Middle-Eastern brown), I had an idea whereto he would flee and given his MO before, it was clear he would go the direct way if possible. Well, he got arrested on the airport, a few minutes before he checked in to his flight to Israel. And since I am pretty sure, I never sent my profile to Flint PD (I posted it on Yahoo though), I can conclude, that police acted on another profile saying the very same thing. Because there was no forensic evidence, no witness, no other thing, that could have led police to that airport that day.
On a trivia side note here: I got some hundred death threats from Yahoo posters who weren't happy that this back then unknown killer wasn't a white supremacist at all. Which maybe explains my ambivalence about threats of being banned for saying uncomfy things.

- Profiles produce a glance on the personality of an offender or offenders
Example: The Magnotta case. Since we have a thread for that one somewhere, I don't need to type the history down here.

- Profiles put use of means and behavior together
Example: In the case of Robert Hansen, Hazelwood predicted, the unsub would have a plane at his disposal (not unusual, we talk Alaska in this case), a speech impediment, probably stuttering, and he would have money. He would be not too tall and appear non-threatening. Now all of that describes Hansen very well. They key point was the plane however. Because the plane and the flight plan was, what later gave enough probably cause for the search warrant to search his house where police found enough evidence to get Hansen convicted. This evidence was found, where and in the form, the profile predicted.

- Profiles help to prepare prosecutors
Example: Again Wayne Williams. The guy was all the time total calm and peaceful during the trial. He tried to pretend to be basically unable to violence. Till Douglas, who had in his profile also analyzed the personality of the unsub who wasn't un- anymore, used this to press his buttons.

So, bottom line, profiles do a lot, they only don't go out and arrest people. Cops have to act accordingly to make the arrest. And since there are so many, who make jokes, who don't think, profiles are something helpful, there is also a long list of cases, where police better would have listened to profilers, but they didn't.

Example: Dennis Rader had a "career" of some decades. Despite the fact, that already after his third attack a profile existed. This profile was written by someone outside of law enforcement, so nobody even dreamed of using it. And more, Wichita hadn't involved the BAU (I think, they were back then still labeled BSU). So when they did, years later and with Rader still free, the profilers went over the case files and found the old profile. Years had passed, all leads recommended for follow up were cold in the meantime, one key person, which the old profile predicted would know the killer but no know he is a killer, had died in the meantime from cancer ... well, the profile was accurate (the FBI profilers basically took it and actualized it) but cops knowing all profiles are only head exercises by people who don't know sh** had sit on it for so long, that the killer was free some more decades. An important point here was also, that profiles very often recommend to provide information to the public and that is not what classic investigators like. Very often, when police listens to profiles and go out to the public, results happen fast. Trent was arrested after four days, Graham took ten days till he gave up because he couldn't move anymore without being reported to the police as sighting.
On the other hand, when classic investigators take over and they don't listen, well, Dahmer killed for years and nobody even noticed an SK in the area, Gacy was reported by an escaped victim as someone who had try to kill a young man, but those smart cops sat on their rear even when the victim and friends had already dragged the solved case virtually to the police's doorsteps (I have the case on my website). Uusally, without profiler's and the public's help, SK cases take years, if not decades.
 
YES, that quote made me laugh aloud as well--

There is something weirdly funny in all those SKs selling themselves as "experts" after they got caught. Already Bundy offered to help the Greenriver Killer (which turned out to be Ridgway), but as Keppler stated "while he was not much help in the ongoing investigation, it offered some insights in his (Bundy's) mind".
Now, we had a good example from Rifkin.
And then, we have the mysterious, the ghostly and gharstly, the murderous and homicidal ... (drums, please) ... THIRTEEN. Oh yeah, I love that guy. Not only that his "handler" is the guy who runs the S.T.A.L.K. site, he is also the one who messed up Atlantic City with an incomplete and sloppy profile. Which probably is a sign, he gets old, because I still remember the days, Kelly was good. Now, he handles an alleged serial killer for a TV show. A serial killer, who basically tells only about the unsubs, a blind man with a stick can see. General notions at best. Self-reflections.

See, if someone learns from caught serial killers, he doesn't leanr "from the best". If those guys would be that good, they wouldn't have been caught in the first place, right? Now, the reason, most serial killers are caught (aside of dumb luck on the LE side), is, they need things from their murders. It's obsessive, it's driving and it takes their whole lives. So logically, whenever you ask a serial killer about another serial killer, he will give you what he would do, why he would chose those victims, what dump site he would have used (instead of the one actually used in the actual case) and so on. He doesn't know more, but additionally, he is hampered by his need to project his dreams, his wishes, his needs on the new murders. So, how on Earth can someone assume, those guys can catch another SK? That's not even their feeding pattern.
 

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