Holly Bobo found deceased, discussion thread *Arrests* #8

  • #181
Hopefully Jason Autry was video taped telling all just in case he meets his fate while waiting to testify.

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I thought about the same thing, lone. The guards sure need to protect him and have him in a cell all by himself. If ZAs can get anyone to do away with him he certainly will. Perhaps they have moved him to an undisclosed location far away from where ZA is housed.

I do wonder if Dylan will try to make a plea deal. I don't think ZAs will.
 
  • #182
Hopefully Jason Autry was video taped telling all just in case he meets his fate while waiting to testify.

It wouldn't matter. It would almost certainly be inadmissible, even if on video, unless there was absolute proof that his death had been caused by the defendant.
 
  • #183
I have a gut feeling that ZAs is going to trial. Of all of the murderers we have seen discussed over the years here at WS I believe he truly is one of the most evil ever.

I also believe he is a psychopath and will get a sick satisfaction in seeing Holly's family/friends agonize over the testimony they are going to hear in the trial.

So many have opted for a trial even though the evidence against them was overwhelming. I thought for sure Joseph Duncan would plea since he knew the Federal Prosecutor had the video tape of him repeatedly raping and torturing Dylan and Shasta for weeks on end and even showed Dylan's little body being pulled over the fire pit after he had murdered him. Yet he went to trial. I think it is some sick way of them thinking they still have total control over the victims and/or their families.:(
I agree, these evil monsters enjoy causing pain and they actually get to enjoy their handiwork all over again in court.
 
  • #184
Has anyone seen any updates on this case. It sounds like ZAs attorney is planning on going to trial. I wonder why all of a sudden she wants another attorney on the case.

I wouldnt be upset if DA did get a plea deal. I have always felt he was totally terrified of his brother and would do anything he demanded that he do whether he wanted to or not. That doesnt excuse what he did to Holly of course but I just dont see him being nearly as evil as his twisted perverted ringleader brother. If there was going to be a plea deal given to any of the three, I really wish it had been Dylan who had swung the plea deal instead of JA but then JA is probably way more involved in what all happened to Holly from beginning to end. It bothers me greatly that he is the one to get the sweetheart deal, even if he pleas to LWOP but if he has the entire truth of what happened to Holly then I will live with it of course.

I even think ZAs set Dylan up when he was arrested on the federal gun charges. ZA probably told Dylan to go mail the gun to the felon knowing if he got caught he would take the fall for it. Dylan has always seemed like a follower to me and was fearful of his ruthless sadistic brother. He reminds me somewhat of Dassey and Steven Avery. Dylan wouldn't have done any of this on his own accord, imo.
 
  • #185
I wonder why all of a sudden she wants another attorney on the case..

Is she actively trying to get another attorney on the case or just SA's attorney?

I can see how SA's attorney might help ZA's case.,,,,and also how it could seriously throw a huge wrench in ZA's case if they are not careful.
We had a long debate about the admissibility of SA's statements and I have conceded I don't think they will be admitted.
But if they would make reference to one of his statements in front of the jury,would that change things?
 
  • #186
Is she actively trying to get another attorney on the case or just SA's attorney?

I can see how SA's attorney might help ZA's case.,,,,and also how it could seriously throw a huge wrench in ZA's case if they are not careful.
We had a long debate about the admissibility of SA's statements and I have conceded I don't think they will be admitted.
But if they would make reference to one of his statements in front of the jury,would that change things?

In some circumstances, such statements could lead to a mistrial and a contempt-of-court charge against the attorney that uttered them. And in all circumstances, likely to be stricken from the record, as "facts not in evidence."

But, beyond the fact that they should almost certainly be ruled inadmissible, and would cause a big issue if shared with the jury, I can't imagine either side really wanting to try to get SA's allegations into the trial anyhow. They contradict the state's case and were provided by a person the state called a liar (so it would harm the state to use them) and they accuse the defendants of heinous illegal acts (so the defense wouldn't want them shared in court).
 
  • #187
I think it depends on what exactly SA's statements were used for in the investigation. For example, if they were the basis for obtaining search warrants or indirectly formed part of the argument leading up to the arrest of the others, then his statements could be used to undermine those aspects of the investigation in court. They would not be evidence of the crime as such, but rather evidence for an alternative interpretation of the facts. The defense could argue that SA was actually the guilty party, and made his accusations to deflect suspicion from himself while at the same time getting himself out of unrelated charges. The fact that he made the statements and that the DA later considered charging him with the crime (based on their public statements) implies that he could used to establish reasonable doubt as to who the guilty party actually was. His actual statements are not relevant (and they don't even need to be accurate), what is relevant is him placing himself at the scene of her abduction/murder. The defence would not need him to say that in court, all they would need to show is that someone did that, and his recorded statements would suffice for that. That would be sufficient to establish reasonable doubt in the absence of forensic evidence implicating the accused.

They can do the same thing with DA. Again, argue that he was the guilty one and made statements implicating ZA and company instead, to deflect attention from himself and his own guilt.

I think in the end the state's case is going to rest primarily on statements made by various individuals rather than actual forensic evidence. So, it is not a given that there will be a conviction, even if one or more of the charged take a plea deal. Their credibility can still be challenged and without forensic evidence to support their claims, their prior plea could mean nothing.
 
  • #188
"And I agree that it infers one defendant testifying against another defendant ... or ... could it be that JA is afraid of the "needle" or the "electric chair"?"

I don't think that's an either-or question. The motivation for a plea is typically one of self-interest, not of some altruistic quest for justice or an attempt to find salve for guilt, and in exchange for a negotiated-and-reduced sentence, a good prosecutor will demand a truthful tell-all in court vs any and all other defendants. I'd expect no less in this case, with JA's reduced sentencing coming later, and contingent on how he testifies (ie, "fully candid and truthful" in relation to whatever proffer that was made, or not).

My guess is that such a plea deal will not be for murder/kidnapping, but rather for something peripheral, such as disposal of evidence or accomplice after the fact. Presumably charges like that would carry lower sentences, with reduced sentences for cooperation tacked on top of that. So he might end up not doing much time, or even just time served, in return for testifying against the others.
 
  • #189
I think it depends on what exactly SA's statements were used for in the investigation. For example, if they were the basis for obtaining search warrants or indirectly formed part of the argument leading up to the arrest of the others, then his statements could be used to undermine those aspects of the investigation in court. They would not be evidence of the crime as such, but rather evidence for an alternative interpretation of the facts. The defense could argue that SA was actually the guilty party, and made his accusations to deflect suspicion from himself while at the same time getting himself out of unrelated charges. The fact that he made the statements and that the DA later considered charging him with the crime (based on their public statements) implies that he could used to establish reasonable doubt as to who the guilty party actually was. His actual statements are not relevant (and they don't even need to be accurate), what is relevant is him placing himself at the scene of her abduction/murder. The defence would not need him to say that in court, all they would need to show is that someone did that, and his recorded statements would suffice for that. That would be sufficient to establish reasonable doubt in the absence of forensic evidence implicating the accused.

They can do the same thing with DA. Again, argue that he was the guilty one and made statements implicating ZA and company instead, to deflect attention from himself and his own guilt.

I think in the end the state's case is going to rest primarily on statements made by various individuals rather than actual forensic evidence. So, it is not a given that there will be a conviction, even if one or more of the charged take a plea deal. Their credibility can still be challenged and without forensic evidence to support their claims, their prior plea could mean nothing.

The discussion of admissibility of warrants and such are going to be done outside the presence of the jury. So even if SA's statement(s) had some bearing on some search warrant or another, it won't be admissible as evidence in the case itself per se, ie the jury will never hear it and weigh its content in relation to whether it was truthful and whether/how it could bear on guilt or innocence of the defendants.

It's not about what effectiveness they might be able to gain from the content. It's about the fact that for purposes of the trial itself, what SA said will almost certainly be INADMISSIBLE HEARSAY. That's the key thing to keep in mind.
 
  • #190
The discussion of admissibility of warrants and such are going to be done outside the presence of the jury. So even if SA's statement(s) had some bearing on some search warrant or another, it won't be admissible as evidence in the case itself per se, ie the jury will never hear it and weigh its content in relation to whether it was truthful and whether/how it could bear on guilt or innocence of the defendants.

It's not about what effectiveness they might be able to gain from the content. It's about the fact that for purposes of the trial itself, what SA said will almost certainly be INADMISSIBLE HEARSAY. That's the key thing to keep in mind.

His statements should be admissible since it can be used by the defence to present a plausible alternative scenario for HB's abduction/murder. SA through his statements placed himself in a situation involving HB, he implicated himself in that respect, which means that the defence could argue that he was involved with what happened to her and made his statements to deflect suspicion from himself. They don't have to claim that his statements were truthful, only that they show that he was involved with what happened to her. In fact, they will stress that SA was NOT truthful outside of implicating himself. They can do the same thing with DA's statements. They can say that SA was involved, because SA said so himself. Likewise with DA. BUT, they can also point to the lies told by those two as evidence that the specifics (ie implicating ZA and co) were false or at the very least questionable. They can then claim that these statements were made to deflect the true blame, which were solely the responsibility of SA and DA. But they do not have to prove that SA and DA were responsible, just showing that they plausibly could have been would be sufficient to establish reasonable doubt.

Remember, the defence does not have to prove anything, only make an argument for a plausible alternative to establish reasonable doubt. This is different from the state, which has the burden of proof, so they cannot use hearsay under most circumstances as a result. The bar is lower for the defence.

This is why solid forensic evidence implicating JA will be critical. The flawed statements by SA and DA open the door for reasonable doubt.
 
  • #191
It is probably a good time to review the hearsay rules. I think there is a major misconception of how they apply to this case.

Rule 801: Definitions
Rule 802: Hearsy Rule
Rule 803: Hearsay Exceptions
Rule 804: Hearsay Exceptions; Declarant Unavaialble
Rule 805: Hearsay Within Hearsay

It is correct that the state has the burden of proof. However, this does not mean that there are any more rules or they are applied more strictly regarding hearsay. Conversely, the defense has the presumption of innocence. This does not mean there are any less rules or they are applied less strictly. Both sides have a level hearsay playing field.

Might want to have a look at Rule 804 (a)(4).
 
  • #192
It is probably a good time to review the hearsay rules. I think there is a major misconception of how they apply to this case.

Rule 801: Definitions
Rule 802: Hearsy Rule
Rule 803: Hearsay Exceptions
Rule 804: Hearsay Exceptions; Declarant Unavaialble
Rule 805: Hearsay Within Hearsay

It is correct that the state has the burden of proof. However, this does not mean that there are any more rules or they are applied more strictly regarding hearsay. Conversely, the defense has the presumption of innocence. This does not mean there are any less rules or they are applied less strictly. Both sides have a level hearsay playing field.

Might want to have a look at Rule 804 (a)(4).

Hearsay can't be used to establish fact, but it can be used to present the possibility of an alternative scenario from what the prosecution is presenting. It would carry less weight but should still be admissible.

An example would be the Caylee Anthony case, where the defence presented an alternative scenario without any evidence at all, other than implied hearsay. As I said, the bar is lower for the defence, they do not have to prove what they say, it just has to be a plausible alternative. The defence can deal in doubt, but the prosecution cannot since the burden of proof is on them. The main limit on the defence is that they can't present something as fact which is provably false, since the prosecution will do that if they can. In the case of SA and DA, both men apparently placed themselves at the scene in some fashion, that remains a fact irrespective of what they actually said and how reliable it might be, and is independent of the statements themselves. Perhaps details they provided might not be accurate and can be proved as such, but by their own free admission they were there. So, the details of their actual statements are less important than that fact, and their statements can be used for that purpose. The defense does not have to prove that SA and DA did do the crime, but only show that reasonably they could have done the crime. And their statements, as inaccurate and as unreliable as they might be, show that. The argument will be that they made these statements to hide or minimize their personal involvement, and that the crime was entirely their doing. The defence will argue that in fact JA and ZA had nothing to do with the crime, and their only role was as convenient patsies because of their local notoriety.

The only way for the state to get around that would be to present forensic evidence or independent witnesses directly implicating the accused. Otherwise the only people with an undisputed link to the crime are SA and DA, and a fair jury would have to acquit the other two.
 
  • #193
Hearsay can't be used to establish fact, but it can be used to present the possibility of an alternative scenario from what the prosecution is presenting. It would carry less weight but should still be admissible.

An example would be the Caylee Anthony case, where the defence presented an alternative scenario without any evidence at all, other than implied hearsay. As I said, the bar is lower for the defence, they do not have to prove what they say, it just has to be a plausible alternative. The defence can deal in doubt, but the prosecution cannot since the burden of proof is on them. The main limit on the defence is that they can't present something as fact which is provably false, since the prosecution will do that if they can. In the case of SA and DA, both men apparently placed themselves at the scene in some fashion, that remains a fact irrespective of what they actually said and how reliable it might be, and is independent of the statements themselves. Perhaps details they provided might not be accurate and can be proved as such, but by their own free admission they were there. So, the details of their actual statements are less important than that fact, and their statements can be used for that purpose. The defense does not have to prove that SA and DA did do the crime, but only show that reasonably they could have done the crime. And their statements, as inaccurate and as unreliable as they might be, show that. The argument will be that they made these statements to hide or minimize their personal involvement, and that the crime was entirely their doing. The defence will argue that in fact JA and ZA had nothing to do with the crime, and their only role was as convenient patsies because of their local notoriety.

The only way for the state to get around that would be to present forensic evidence or independent witnesses directly implicating the accused. Otherwise the only people with an undisputed link to the crime are SA and DA, and a fair jury would have to acquit the other two.

At this point, I think it is best to agree to disagree on what is and is not allowed at trial. All will be revealed starting in 7 weeks. Let's wait until then.
 
  • #194
Has anyone seen any updates on this case.

It sounds like ZAs attorney is planning on going to trial. I wonder why all of a sudden she wants another attorney on the case.

I wouldnt be upset if DA did get a plea deal. I have always felt he was totally terrified of his brother and would do anything he demanded that he do whether he wanted to or not. That doesnt excuse what he did to Holly of course but I just dont see him being nearly as evil as his twisted perverted ringleader brother. If there was going to be a plea deal given to any of the three, I really wish it had been Dylan who had swung the plea deal instead of JA but then JA is probably way more involved in what all happened to Holly from beginning to end. It bothers me greatly that he is the one to get the sweetheart deal, even if he pleas to LWOP but if he has the entire truth of what happened to Holly then I will live with it of course.

I even think ZAs set Dylan up when he was arrested on the federal gun charges. ZA probably told Dylan to go mail the gun to the felon knowing if he got caught he would take the fall for it. Dylan has always seemed like a follower to me and was fearful of his ruthless sadistic brother. He reminds me somewhat of Dassey and Steven Avery. Dylan wouldn't have done any of this on his own accord, imo.


:wave: Good Morning,

BBM: Unfortunately, I have not found any updates on this case, except what we learned at the last Status Conference ... ZA's trial date is fast approaching, so you would think there would be more news or updates.

I'll try to check more often for updates and news since ZA's trial date is just around the corner.

:wave:
 
  • #195
:wave: Morning,


From NewsChannel 5:

Is There Enough Evidence To Convict Zach Adams In Murder Of Holly Bobo?

By: Nick Beres
Posted: 9:59 PM, Feb 27, 2017


Is there enough evidence to convict Holly Bobo's accused killer? A trial six years in the making finally begins next month, and Zach Adams stands alone.

He is the focus of the prosecution. He is the prime suspect -- the one they will first seek to convict and then execute for the murder of Holly Bobo.

"The state has been very clear in their discussions with me that there is no DNA that links Holly Bobo to Zachary Adams," said Jennifer Thompson, Adams' lawyer.



More at Link: http://www.newschannel5.com/news/is...to-convict-zach-adams-in-murder-of-holly-bobo
 
  • #196
:wave:

I think there is supposed to be a hearing today ?

If so, I'll try to post any updates I can find.

JMO ... I hope this case goes to trial on April 3 ... but, I doubt it.

:moo::moo::moo:
 
  • #197
I'm watching on Court Chatter but no volume. Dang!
 
  • #198
Chris Conte is in court on the case today, and has the following post plus quite a few more after it. Check his twitter feed for more.
Chris Conte‏Verified account @chrisconte [video=twitter;836977201207775232]https://twitter.com/chrisconte/status/836977201207775232[/video]




Today's #HollyBobo hearing is about to get underway. We're expecting some possible major developments
 
  • #199
Jury selection will start first week of April. Trial is delayed until July.
 
  • #200
From Chris Conte Twitter:

Chris Conte‏Verified account @chrisconte · 16m16 minutes ago


Here's what's new. #HollyBobo trial will be delayed until July 10th. Jury selection begins on April 3rd. 550 people jurors being summoned



Link: https://twitter.com/chrisconte
 

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