Holly Bobo, missing from TN 2014 discussion #5 ***ARRESTS***

[OldSteve]

:thinking: Never heard that one before, OS !

:seeya:

Do we know where the dog was prior to Clint looking out the window?

 

[SteveS]

For those asking, Bible Hill TN is a township, and thus a geo-political area, and not a reference to a hill somewhere. There is also a Bible Hill Rd which is the road leading into the town. Gooch Rd is a road in the vicinity of the Bible Hill township, generally NE. If you leave the intersection identified as Bible Hill TN and head north on 882, it's about 2 miles to Gooch Rd.

If you want to get a better feel for the geography, you can use Google maps point-to-point ("Directions") to plot the route from

*Swan Johnson Road, Parsons TN [Bobo house][I don't know the exact street number, but maybe someone else does]
*Bible Hill, TN 38363
*Gooch Road, Parsons TN
*Adams Lane, Holladay, TN

If we presume that the abduction took Holly from her home to Adams Ln, then going through the township of Bible Hill was right on the way, and she got there via Bible Hill Rd (aka 882). But if her lunchbox was found near Gooch Rd, that doesn't appear to be the most direct way from Bible Hill to Adams Rd, and would require further explanation.

Of course, the shorter way on the map (Gibson Rd) might not be much of a road, it might have obstructions (either all the time, or on that day), and so on. So Gooch road may have been the obvious way to go, or it may not have, if heading to Adams Rd. A local who lives in Parsons/Bible Hill would be the one to know.

So there's a mystery ...
1 Which is the normal and/or optimal route that the kidnappers should logically have taken, Gibson Rd or Gooch Rd?
2 If not Gooch, then how and why did the lunchbox end up there?
3 Was Gooch Rd the route taken for the abduction despite being the long way around? If so, why would they have gone the long way? Were they avoiding something or someone? Visiting something or someone?
4 Or, was the lunchbox planted there later? If so, why there?
5 And of course, maybe there's a wrong assumption at the root of the mystery. Did they actually go to Adams Rd with her?

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Do we know where the dog was prior to Clint looking out the window?

:seeya: Hi OS ! I am not really sure where the dog was ... Oh, but how I wish the dog could talk !!!

 

[spooky24]

The exercise was intended to discover what important physical evidence was withheld to counter the wave of individuals that confess to all major-or minor-crimes.

Also, to show how farfetched some of the chatter about what the brother saw and heard. Once you have been there it is easy to see that the released statement that the victim and someone knelt down in front of the car and the phrase "No, Why?" was heard from the position of the ear witness is impossible.

The TBI have gone out of there way not to correct this and that is a hint that they perhaps have mislead the media in releases for some particular reason. This is a common technique that in some way will propagate movement by someone who is under subjection and not necessarily suspicion.

Due to somewhat above average rainfall and heat the area is overgrown with vegetation and makes it difficult to put together a reenactment. Veteran investigators are continuing to return to this area and this time frame as this is the key to understanding the confusing events.

Finally, I have indeed joined the collation of persons who will no longer criticize the TBI/FBI, the 24 Judicial District, or the media in this case. Were mistakes made? Yes, there were some unprofessional moments in the early parts of the investigation, however those things seem unimportant and people need to start working together.

The TBI has jailed the prime suspects-which it appears they must have been involved in some fashion. The 24th is under extreme pressure to decide if and when to go forward with the prosecution knowing they will only get one chance. The media is simply doing their job and the over emphasis of coverage due to the blonde white girl syndrome is a matter of society rather than any policy set forth by the local, state and national media.

The families decision to have a member of law enforcement as their spokesperson and adviser also shows they too are ready to cooperate and get some movement forward.

This case is solvable.

 

[goldenbear]

More than one of the suspects knows where Holly's remains are. We know this from the threats that have been made. That is one loose end to help solve this case. Another is the possible video of her capture. More pressure should be put on the plea deal suspect

 

[OldSteve]

:seeya: Hi OS ! I am not really sure where the dog was ... Oh, but how I wish the dog could talk !!!

So tempting to make a joke about the dog wanting an immunity deal.....

But one question I've had about the dog is what's its temperament like around strangers and non-strangers?

Some dogs are very friendly and bark like crazy around anyone. Some are quite, some get upset by strangers - so what was this dog like. Be interesting to know as it might indicate something about the who abducted Holly.

 

[Mr. Noatak]

So tempting to make a joke about the dog wanting an immunity deal.....

But one question I've had about the dog is what's its temperament like around strangers and non-strangers?

Some dogs are very friendly and bark like crazy around anyone. Some are quite, some get upset by strangers - so what was this dog like. Be interesting to know as it might indicate something about the who abducted Holly.

My opinions only, no facts here:

OldSteve, in a way the dogs have already spoken. And loudly. Based upon my timeline, a tracking dog or dogs was (were) used on the same day as the abduction. It had rained heavily two days before the abduction. This is the optimum dream-world situation for tracking dogs. Scents created prior to the abduction were diluted/removed by the rain-storm. Yet, from the unofficial reports (see my timeline), the dog(s) sort of indicated that Holly went nowhere in particular.

I doubt that bloodhound breeds or similar scent-hounds were used on the same day that Holly disappeared; probably just regular Police dogs. If the best scent-hounds were used, we would not even be having this discussion. But no fault with Police dogs (German Shepherds for example); they are very appropriate for the day of a crime.

Sleuth On!

 

[dog.gone.cute]

So tempting to make a joke about the dog wanting an immunity deal.....

But one question I've had about the dog is what's its temperament like around strangers and non-strangers?

Some dogs are very friendly and bark like crazy around anyone. Some are quite, some get upset by strangers - so what was this dog like. Be interesting to know as it might indicate something about the who abducted Holly.

:seeya: Hi OS !

BBM: :hilarious: "an immunity deal" . . . :hilarious:


Anyway, on a serious note: IIRC, the B's had 2 dogs -- not sure IF they were inside or outside dogs ... And good points about how dogs react to different people ...

Sure wish we knew IF the dogs reacted that morning.

:moo:

 

[OldSteve]

:seeya: Hi OS !

BBM: :hilarious: "an immunity deal" . . . :hilarious:


Anyway, on a serious note: IIRC, the B's had 2 dogs -- not sure IF they were inside or outside dogs ... And good points about how dogs react to different people ...

Sure wish we knew IF the dogs reacted that morning.

:moo:

Next, they walked down a 4-wheeler path in the nearby woods. The Bobo family dog, Champ, followed, wagging his tail the whole way.

http://raycomgroup.worldnow.com/story/21129464/never-seen-before-images-in-holly-bobo-case

Considering the above, I wonder if LE ever looked into how Champ reacts to different people and circumstances. Perhaps I watched too many Colombo Mysteries back in the day where Colombo would check out and take into account things others would overlook.

 

[Mr. Noatak]

http://raycomgroup.worldnow.com/story/21129464/never-seen-before-images-in-holly-bobo-case

Considering the above, I wonder if LE ever looked into how Champ reacts to different people and circumstances. Perhaps I watched too many Colombo Mysteries back in the day where Colombo would check out and take into account things others would overlook.

My opinions only, no facts here:

First, we have the perpetrator waiting for Holly's mother and father to leave, yet her brother was still inside the house, sleeping. Also, we have a dog or dogs that were docile, but could have just as well been a pit bull or a mastiff trained to guard the home and property. Just how lucky was this mystery man? Is this serendipity, or did the mystery man know all of this in advance?

 

[Foxfire]

My opinions only, no facts here:

First, we have the perpetrator waiting for Holly's mother and father to leave, yet her brother was still inside the house, sleeping. Also, we have a dog or dogs that were docile, but could have just as well been a pit bull or a mastiff trained to guard the home and property. Just how lucky was this mystery man? Is this serendipity, or did the mystery man know all of this in advance?

<BBM for Focus>

Mr. Noatak, many organized sexual predators/serial killers will stalk/recon their victims for days or weeks before the abduction. Some such as BTK; Dennis Rader, said that they enjoyed the stalking/hunt even more than the kill. Imo, many folks are misunderestimating the intelligence, organization, as well as the likely experience of ZA.. ZA was no stranger to the game, imo.. Imo, HB's abduction/murder was not an impulsive act, but was very well planned and meticulously executed....

 

[jggordo]

So is there an actual court hearing today? Or is it just the deadline for discovery?

 

[dog.gone.cute]

So is there an actual court hearing today? Or is it just the deadline for discovery?

:seeya: Hi jggordo !


No hearing today ... just the deadline for discovery, which unfortunately, will NOT be shared with us ... lol ... :gaah:


Here is the link for the Scheduling Order in the Court Case Dates Thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...case-dates-Holly-Bobo&p=10588987#post10588987


I just checked NC5 and WSMV and nothing new on Holly's case.

 

[Mr. Noatak]

<BBM for Focus>

Mr. Noatak, many organized sexual predators/serial killers will stalk/recon their victims for days or weeks before the abduction. Some such as BTK; Dennis Rader, said that they enjoyed the stalking/hunt even more than the kill. Imo, many folks are misunderestimating the intelligence, organization, as well as the likely experience of ZA.. ZA was no stranger to the game, imo.. Imo, HB's abduction/murder was not an impulsive act, but was very well planned and meticulously executed....

My opinions only, no facts here:

I agree with your first statement. But regarding the "main suspect", therein lies the conundrum. How could the "main suspect" have known that Holly's brother was still sleeping and not already awake (on the day of the abduction)? The abductor would have to have been inside the house to know this detail. This is the enduring problem.

 

[Indy Anna]

My opinions only, no facts here:

I agree with your first statement. But regarding the "main suspect", therein lies the conundrum. How could the "main suspect" have known that Holly's brother was still sleeping and not already awake (on the day of the abduction)? The abductor would have to have been inside the house to know this detail. This is the enduring problem.

As a hunter, it would be likely ZA had a good pair of binoculars. Are there curtains up to all of the windows in the Bobo house? Does CB leave his bedroom curtains open? Or, maybe he opens the curtains as soon as he gets up. No doubt ZA or any of his cronies would have scoped out the house using binoculars to get an idea of the daily routine for each person in the household. He/they would have done this from the cover of the woods. ZA or anyone else scoping out the house may have been taking treats for the dogs and letting the dogs get familiarized with them while the family was gone.

IMO, ZA used his hunting skills to stalk Holly and her whole family. I agree with Foxfire ... Holly's kidnapping was not an impulsive act. MOO

 

[Foxfire]

My opinions only, no facts here:

I agree with your first statement. But regarding the "main suspect", therein lies the conundrum. How could the "main suspect" have known that Holly's brother was still sleeping and not already awake (on the day of the abduction)? The abductor would have to have been inside the house to know this detail. This is the enduring problem.

Mr. Noatak, doubtful that ZA knew that Clint was home on 04/13/2011. CB's normal schedule would have placed him at school. If not for HB's inside dog; Rascal's awareness and persistent barking. CB would have likely slept through the abduction, imo..

The abductor was forensically and investigative aware, indicated by the full camo/turkey season, knew HB and the family's schedule/daily routine, Sheriff's department change times, geographical area, and likely knew that the Bobo's outside dog; Champ, was docile.. Seems that multiple and careful recons/trial runs were indicated. jmo

 

[masootz]

and likely knew that the Bobo's outside dog; Champ, was docile.. Seems that multiple and careful recons/trial runs were indicated. jmo

foxfire, you bring up a great point. one thing we've discussed many times is why the dog didn't bark. maybe the perp knew the dog wouldn't bark because he had done enough recon to run into the dog previously.

 

[OldSteve]

foxfire, you bring up a great point. one thing we've discussed many times is why the dog didn't bark. maybe the perp knew the dog wouldn't bark because he had done enough recon to run into the dog previously.

Like you, I've mentioned the dog's behavior - to the point of wondering if LE ever looked into how it reacts to strangers versus those known.... Also, some dogs are friendly to the point of wanting lots of affection and are all over people, especially when they are kneeling down - if their dog was like that, that would have made for a strange scene when Holly was kneeling with the ...

 

[Mr. Noatak]

Mr. Noatak, doubtful that ZA knew that Clint was home on 04/13/2011. CB's normal schedule would have placed him at school. If not for HB's inside dog; Rascal's awareness and persistent barking. CB would have likely slept through the abduction, imo..

The abductor was forensically and investigative aware, indicated by the full camo/turkey season, knew HB and the family's schedule/daily routine, Sheriff's department change times, geographical area, and likely knew that the Bobo's outside dog; Champ, was docile.. Seems that multiple and careful recons/trial runs were indicated. jmo

My opinions only, no facts here:

I have failed to explain myself properly.

First, if Holly's brother was known to the perpetrator, he would have simply waited for Holly's brother to leave for school/work, just as the same perpetrator waited for Holly's father and mother to leave. Also, check my timeline for estimates of when the perpetrator arrived at the scene and waited. The perpetrator would have likely been there early enough to account for ALL family members leaving for work/school. Remember, Holly's brother would have driven a vehicle to work/school and an informed perpetrator should have confirmed the absence of that vehicle.

But if Holly's brother was completely overlooked by the perpetrator, then the kidnapping effort would seem both shoddy/ill-conceived AND well-planned at the same time. This is a conundrum. You see my point? A criminal cannot be incompetent and competent at the same time.

I believe that the perpetrator would not have acted if he knew Holly's brother was still in the house. Perhaps, the kidnapper was under the impression that Holly's brother was out of town, or had left very, very early to go hunting at some distant location. In my judgment, the oversight of Holly's brother still being at home is an important investigative clue. Among all of the POI's and suspects, named or yet-to-be-named, who would have possessed the exact details of the family schedule, yet possessed the misinformation that Holly's brother was not at home on that particular morning?

Sleuth On!

 

[spooky24]

The abductor was forensically and investigative aware, indicated by the full camo/turkey season, knew HB and the family's schedule/daily routine, Sheriff's department change times, geographical area, and likely knew that the Bobo's outside dog; Champ, was docile.. Seems that multiple and careful recons/trial runs were indicated. jmo

There is not one shred of evidence that points to that conclusion. There is a slight rise a person must go over to approach the rear of the carport and the window the brother has claimed to have looked of could not have seen from this approach. Whoever confronted the victim could have cared less about who was there and who wasn't. Kidnappers don't address their potential victims nor do they engage in small talk and ask questions of whom they are getting ready to remove.

The spring turkey hunting season ran March 29 through May 11. All of the brothers statements have been problematic since the very first day. When I was at the abduction scene the only way the brother could have seen what he claimed was to stick his head out the window and look east. As far as the dialog is concerned he may have heard something but a specific term is questionable.

The FBI has decades of experience with abductions, kidnapping and murder. The term :"No Why?" was ran through the entire FBI vault and I doubt it matched any other of the thousands of cases they have investigated. To claim that this was a planned abduction and murder is nothing but supposition.

If you put yourself in the mind of a seasoned, experienced FBI investigator all of this is very puzzling-and the key to solving the mystery. I know they have recreated this scene many times from known evidence and this may be why the case is stuck where it is. To the FBI everyone is a suspect until proven otherwise. The same detective must also be confused as to how a relatively simple case has bamboozled into the public relations nightmare that it is now.

I'm sure they question "why wasn't this solved the very first day"

I would like to know that as well.