Human Remains (*cadaver) Detection (HRD) dog questions and answers **NO DISCUSSION**

[nursebeeme]

Please leave your questions on human remains detection dogs ("cadaver dogs") for our verified SAR experts Sarx and Oriah. This is a *no* *discussion* thread

 

[nursebeeme]

I will go first (based on some questions I have seen other posters ask on the other thread)

1) are there differences in cadaver dogs?

2) what kind do the fbi use?

3) can cadaver dogs hit on urine and blood?

eta: I mean ****hrd dogs!****

((sarx and oriah don't smack me.. lol... you should have schooled me enough on this by now LOL))

 

[josie1986]

:seeya:

i posted this in another thread....

if someone had died previous to JI living in the house and JI has the carpets replaced (im sure i seen someone say in another thread that he had) would the smell of decomp just be on the carpet that was removed or would it be on the actual flooring under the carpet so the smell would still be able to be detected by the dog even if a new carpet had been laid down

i hope i made sense.

TIA

 

[sarx]

Yes, my first question is can we get the title to say "HRD" (cadaver)!

 

[Celt1997]

Asked this in the other thread.

Since we know DB was blackout drunk, the possibility of vomiting on the floor is there.

Are there any fluids that come out during vomiting (bile and other stomach fluids, plus whatever she ate) that would begin to decompose on the carpet, and cause a "hit?"

 

[sarx]

I will go first (based on some questions I have seen other posters ask on the other thread)

1) are there differences in cadaver dogs?

2) what kind do the fbi use?

3) can cadaver dogs hit on urine and blood?

1.
The difference is in the training largely and level of training.
Though there are historical remains detection dogs as well, which is a specialty of HRD and involves working with archeological aspects and remains that are hundreds of years old.

2.
What kind don't the FBI use? They've got a lot of resources.

3.
HRD dogs should not be hitting on anything that comes from a living body.

 

[sarx]

:seeya:

i posted this in another thread....

if someone had died previous to JI living in the house and JI has the carpets replaced (im sure i seen someone say in another thread that he had) would the smell of decomp just be on the carpet that was removed or would it be on the actual flooring under the carpet so the smell would still be able to be detected by the dog even if a new carpet had been laid down

i hope i made sense.

TIA

Yes, it does make sense. It depends on the type of contact and with what and over what period of time.
This is also where the dog's signals comes into play and of course the dog is just one of many tools. Samples then go to the lab and will determine who and when it came from.

 

[nursebeeme]

why when Det. Forgy was on the stand in the Casey Anthony trial did he say "yes" that his dog would hit on blood if someone cut their finger/it bled onto the ground? Do you think he misunderstood his question or had a different kind of dog?

(paraphrased question from mountain_kat)

 

[HatesSociopaths]

How will this evidence be countered by the defense attorney? What is the history on such? TIA.

 

[sarx]

Asked this in the other thread.

Since we know DB was blackout drunk, the possibility of vomiting on the floor is there.

Are there any fluids that come out during vomiting (bile and other stomach fluids, plus whatever she ate) that would begin to decompose on the carpet, and cause a "hit?"

No, not with the training I am comfortable backing. And not with dogs that are NASAR or FEMA certified.

It's not so much that it comes out and decomposes, it's that it comes out already decomposing that makes a difference.

 

[sarx]

why when Det. Forgy was on the stand in the Casey Anthony trial did he say "yes" that his dog would hit on blood if someone cut their finger/it bled onto the ground? Do you think he misunderstood his question or had a different kind of dog?

(paraphrased question from mountain_kat)

I wish I knew. I think because some dogs do, because that's the way they were trained. There are dogs that are trained on band-aids, no joke. There are still also a lot of "old-timers" out there that don't seem to catch up with the science of it all and are just continuing to go with what they know to be true and was passed down to them.

 

[sarx]

How will this evidence be countered by the defense attorney? What is the history on such? TIA.

Oh they'll take everything here on WS and try and use it, lol. Only partly kidding. They'll also pull every case that has ever had a dog screw up and use it. These are experienced handlers with experience in their track records, and they are just one small aspect of the case. With the recent happenings with dogs though, I am betting they have their i's dotted and t's crossed though.

 

[sarx]

Hey Nursebeeme, can you go back into the title and add cadaver in () to it, after HRD of course!, just so it's there for those I haven't schooled! lol Thanks!

 

[nursebeeme]

can HRD dogs hit on dirty diapers?

(this was another poster's question)

 

[sarx]

Just an FYI, I'm going to "thank" every post when I answer it so I can keep track. So if somehow I miss one just let me know! I don't want to miss any questions. If there is something I cannot answer I will reply and say just that!

 

[norest4thewicked]

I know a SAR expert personally and just asked the question about whether a person who had died in a house 10 years ago would still leave decomp that the dogs would hit on. His answer was that they would not unless the dogs were the specialized dogs above that you mentioned. I'm just trying to clarify this with you also as an expert. Do you believe that if a person had died in that house 10 years ago that it might give the dogs in Lisa's case a false hit?

 

[sarx]

can HRD dogs hit on dirty diapers?

(this was another poster's question)

Can they? LOL... No they should NEVER NEVER NEVER hit on a stinky diaper! or a fluid filled one for that matter.

 

[curiousc]

Thank you Sarx for answering all these questions!

 

[sarx]

I know a SAR expert personally and just asked the question about whether a person who had died in a house 10 years ago would still leave decomp that the dogs would hit on. His answer was that they would not unless the dogs were the specialized dogs above that you mentioned. I'm just trying to clarify this with you also as an expert. Do you believe that if a person had died in that house 10 years ago that it might give the dogs in Lisa's case a false hit?

I have not worked with these dogs personally. Their handlers would definitively know though. As a handler you generally try and push the limits with your dog so you know what that limit is.

ETA-I am also talking remains more than by-product scent here. Probably should clarify that. I'm tired and starting to make less and less sense!

 

[wfgodot]

What are the success rates, percentage-wise, for well-trained HRD dogs? (High I would guess.) Are records kept charting an individual dog's percentage of success - say, after trials at the end of training?