I am so Angry

[TexMex]

It's a matter of priorities. Drunken Bush twins take precedence over Iraq. Iraq takes precedence over dead and dying Americans. Money in Bush's pocket takes precedence over all else. Stand in line, your turn will come, if you survive long enough.

"We will do everything in our power to help people in the communities affected by this storm".....when we're darn well good and ready. Darn you suffering people for interrupting our vacation!

This is what we get for electing a president with the IQ of a pinto bean.

So now we attack two twenty something GIRLS just because you don't like their Daddy? Come on Mabel..... :hand:

 

[Dara]

Without being an expert at knowing all the steps and details, after I read the second letter, and second post, I still didn't see the specifics requesting National Guard coming in, etc. And I think (?) that has to be a very specific request. Even as to what type of function they will play (aid vs military police force to restore peace, etc.). So, IMO (and again, I'm no expert), the requests she were asking for was like Phase 1, declaring the State of Emergency for financial aid, but not specific requests for "bring in the feds now to help" and I am sure that would be another Phase, so to speak.

So, how do we square that with the fact that she apparently did request them. What do you make of the article that says she asked for them Sunday (they were offered from New Mexico) and the White House didn't approve them until Thursday?

Maybe we need one thread to just discuss this one issue and put the articles that pertain. We're posting the same few articles, but I think they're getting lost. What do you think?

 

[TexMex]

So, how do we square that with the fact that she apparently did request them. What do you make of the article that says she asked for them Sunday (they were offered from New Mexico) and the White House didn't approve them until Thursday?

Maybe we need one thread to just discuss this one issue and put the articles that pertain. We're posting the same few articles, but I think they're getting lost. What do you think?

Morning Dara


It is little known, but the Commanding General of the National Guard in every state reports to the Governor, not the President, until the Governor says otherwise. U.S. military units (regular Army, not the Guard) cannot be used because of the Posse Comitatus law, until the Guard has been authorized."

We have a family living with us. One little 84 yr old lady keeps saying her late husband promised her that she 'could always live in that house and everythng
would be fine'. The kids will be in our kids school Tues and I'm helping Joel, the dad, look for work.

 

[Dara]

Morning Dara


It is little known, but the Commanding General of the National Guard in every state reports to the Governor, not the President, until the Governor says otherwise. U.S. military units (regular Army, not the Guard) cannot be used because of the Posse Comitatus law, until the Guard has been authorized."

And the president has the authority to send them in. We keep establishing that! We keep saying the same thing over and over. Bush had the authority to send them in at any time. It was a federal emergency. He had the authority to send them in.

And apparently the governor did request them on Sunday, and the White House didn't approve them until Thursday. I've posted the link at least twice. Tybee's posted it several times.

 

[TexMex]

And the president has the authority to send them in. We keep establishing that! We keep saying the same thing over and over. Bush had the authority to send them in at any time. It was a federal emergency. He had the authority to send them in.

But THE GOVERNOR DID NOT WANT HIM TOO. SHE REFUSED. IF HE DID SHE WOULD CRY ABOUT FEDERAL MARTIAL LAW. SHE TOLD HIM SHE WOULD HANDLE IT AT THE STATE LEVEL. He let her decide what was best for her state. That's how the process works.

Sunday she requested MONEY---not TROOPS

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

So, those of you who have been ranting about not placing blame yet and that it's time for praise and positive messages should be firing off angry, concerned emails to Chertoff and co. Or at least complaining here like you all have been doing to those of us dare ask for answers and criticize Bush (because apparently criticizing anyone else is patriotic, but Bush is offffffff-limits).

Hi Dara,

Well, I feel a need to respond to this one, since you know I'm one who has voiced my opinion that I think much of the criticism needs to come a little later. I've been "weakening" in the last day or two, more so because I've read many of the interesting articles which appear to show that much of the lack of planning came from Ground Zero, the City of NO's own municipality. Then at the state level, and then at the Fed level. All are culpable. There WILL be plenty of blame to go around, no doubt.

But I am disturbed at the obvious politicizing of this so soon. I guess it's to be expected, but I am disappointed in it. I really am. I don't think that's what most citizens want, IMO. And this is on both sides. BOTH SIDES ARE SPINNING!!! It's obvious in sooooo many of the articles written and posted here. The people that hate Bush and everything he stands for, have always hated him. They're having a heyday with this and will use it for all it's worth. Anything to make him look bad. And then the pro-Bush side, defending him and his administration as though they had nothing to do with the mistakes/delays and were never notified.

I'll go on the record here and say I'm a Bush supporter, hell I live in Crawford, TX and my job is impacted when he is in town. And yet, I don't think I'm blind to being a puppy-dog loyal to him. I didn't want us to go into Iraq, but once we did, I don't think we can retreat now, either. And there's other things he has done that I haven't liked or approved. Many times I have just shaken my head. My voting for him this last time was truly a "lesser of two evils" vote from me. (And yet, knowing what I know of him as a person, I like a lot of the stories I hear from those who personally know him. He has some wonderful attributes.) /// I hated Clinton as much as many of you hate Bush, and yet I can give Clinton credit in that I think he was good at "some" of the social aspects, he did seem to care about many of the people, even though I didn't agree with his policies, administration, lying to Congress and the people, etc. I don't want to turn this into a political battle on this thread; that belongs on the political forum.

I just am disappointed to see the political blame game so early in this. Why can't we (in general, not specifically you and me) stay balanced on it and say: The Mayor and his City Staff did a piss-poor job, didn't follow their own damn plan; the Governor was in way over her head and either didn't know the steps or played the political game, and didn't ask for appropriate help at the right times; Bush (or his staff) should have been more forceful with her and demanded more, and checked on where she was in the process; and from the little I've seen in the last week, it appears FEMA's got some real problems and Mr. Brown is inept in his position. Chertoff and Homeland Security - I don't know enough to have a take on them yet, realistically. Bush is the top guy, and will be the fall guy, it comes with the territory. Brown shouldn't be in the position he is, and if Bush is the one who got him there, dang, bad bad choice. And I know he's one of your favorite whipping boys here, it's clear from all your posts about him - and I don't disagree. What the hell was he saying about he didn't know that everything was falling apart at the SuperDome? I can't think of a reasonable explanation for that. I think we'll see a firing or resignation/retirement in the near future with him.

Are there problems at EVERY level? Yes. I still hold to my belief that it is really too early to blame this on a few people. There will obviously be Congressional hearings on this, and we'll start getting answers. And, I wish people wouldn't lose sight on the big picture here and keep political feelings outta this right now. Oh well, in my ideal world....

Respectfully, IMO.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

So, how do we square that with the fact that she apparently did request them. What do you make of the article that says she asked for them Sunday (they were offered from New Mexico) and the White House didn't approve them until Thursday?

Maybe we need one thread to just discuss this one issue and put the articles that pertain. We're posting the same few articles, but I think they're getting lost. What do you think?

LOL! You're right, it's own thread!

We'll get a timeline at some point, as to what steps happened from Sunday through Thursday. Explanations will come out later. There's no way any of us on WS can figure it out, we're not privvy to the documents and communications. Each side is only letting out little bits of info to support their side. I'll wait to hear the official timeline later, you know it will come out in hearings. Was it the Governor screwing up, or someone in her staff that dropped the ball? Was it the President screwing up, or someone in his staff that dropped the ball? Was it both? Neither? We don't know, so I refuse to take a hard stand on either.

 

[Dara]

Are there problems at EVERY level? Yes. I still hold to my belief that it is really too early to blame this on a few people. There will obviously be Congressional hearings on this, and we'll start getting answers. And, I wish people wouldn't lose sight on the big picture here and keep political feelings outta this right now. Oh well, in my ideal world....

Respectfully, IMO.

Sorry, but your "big picture" is not what I think the "big picture" is. I'm sick that the government, the federal government is imo misleading us.

I've been told what I think and feel and what motivates me over and over. I've been told I hate Bush, which was kind of a surprise to me, as I rallied behind him immediately after 9/11 (though I came to regret it) and thought on Sunday, "Oh, good, he declared a National Emergency. Good job." That, "Oh, you're just a hater" is such a weak, whiny excuse not to engage in fair debate and such a lame attempt to discredit the other person before you even hear what they have to say.

So don't tell me I hate Bush. Don't tell me I'm being partisan. Apparently, I'm one of the few people who didn't bother to find out what party everyone was with. I didn't think at this stage it mattered.

When all else fails, the federal government is supposed to be there. If the governor tried to keep power and wasn't up to the task, that's MORE reason for Bush to take over, not less. If the mayor ended up in a corner sucking his thumb, that's not the federal government's excuse not to have done more. It's the reason they should have. I'll blame everyone when the dust settles, but right now, I know the federal government is the one entity and Bush the one person who is accountable, because they always are. We used to know that. What the hell happened?

Any anger is not directed at you, DD.

 

[kgeaux]

The document (in full, I just snipped for space) was interested, and dang, a lot of legal mumbo jumbo, eh?

But if I'm reading it correctly, it shows she declared a State of Emergency for LA, but this DID NOT request the federal aid at that time. She's declaring an emergency state at the State level. Did I read that incorrectly?

That is what I think, it's boiling down to. She had federal assistance standing by, but had to actually request them to come in after the hurricane, and that request was delayed. Many things were happening all at one time:
1. The troops on standby never actually received orders to come in. 2. Once orders were received to come in, they weren't told what to do, no specific orders, in other words. 3. Red Cross was delayed because of the idiot thugs running around shooting at rescuers with their handy dandy AK47's. 4. Blanco and Bush appear to have had a faceoff while people were dying by drowning, heat exhaustion and dehydration.

editing to add: 5. Fema being put under the depart of homeland security has created more problems--FEMA seems to not be able to move and function nearly as well as before.

 

[tybee204]

But THE GOVERNOR DID NOT WANT HIM TOO. SHE REFUSED. IF HE DID SHE WOULD CRY ABOUT FEDERAL MARTIAL LAW. SHE TOLD HIM SHE WOULD HANDLE IT AT THE STATE LEVEL. He let her decide what was best for her state. That's how the process works.

Sunday she requested MONEY---not TROOPS

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_national_guard

Congress Likely to Probe Guard Delay


WASHINGTON - Several states ready and willing to send National Guard troops to the rescue in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans didn't get the go-ahead until days after the storm struck — a delay nearly certain to be investigated by Congress. .....

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state's National Guard on Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday.......



Why do you say she didnt request troops? She did, Washington didnt deliver.

 

[kgeaux]

So, how do we square that with the fact that she apparently did request them. What do you make of the article that says she asked for them Sunday (they were offered from New Mexico) and the White House didn't approve them until Thursday?

Maybe we need one thread to just discuss this one issue and put the articles that pertain. We're posting the same few articles, but I think they're getting lost. What do you think?

Dara, is it the white house that held up the request? I've only read Washington, which I took to mean some bureacrat in an office somewhere let the paper sit on his desk while he played around with some red tape. Is it Bush personally?

 

[TexMex]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_national_guard

Congress Likely to Probe Guard Delay


WASHINGTON - Several states ready and willing to send National Guard troops to the rescue in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans didn't get the go-ahead until days after the storm struck — a delay nearly certain to be investigated by Congress. .....

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state's National Guard on Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday.......



Why do you say she didnt request troops? She did, Washington didnt deliver.

Hi ty

Read the whole article


We could have had people on the road Tuesday," Cutler said. "We have to wait and respond to their need."

The Michigan National Guard was asked for military police by Mississippi late Tuesday and by Louisiana officials late Wednesday. The state sent 182 MPs to Mississippi on Friday and had 242 headed to Louisiana on Saturday.

Typically, the authority to use the National Guard in a state role lies with the governor, who tells his or her adjutant general to order individual Guard units to begin duty. Turnaround time varies depending on the number of troops involved, their location and their assigned missions.

One factor that may have further complicated post-Katrina deployment arose when Louisiana discovered it needed Guardsmen to do more law enforcement duty because a large portion of the New Orleans police force was not functioning, according to Lt. Gen. Steven H. Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau at the Pentagon.

Because the agreement that was already in existence for states to contribute Guard troops to Louisiana did not include a provision on their use in law enforcement, Blum said, Gov. Blanco had to get separate written agreements authorizing Guardsmen to do police-type duty.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state's National Guard on Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday.......[/B]



Why do you say she didnt request troops? She did, Washington didnt deliver.

What day did Blanco accept his offer? What day did she send the paperwork to Washington???????? We haven't seen that yet, have we?

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

So don't tell me I hate Bush. Don't tell me I'm being partisan. Apparently, I'm one of the few people who didn't bother to find out what party everyone was with. I didn't think at this stage it mattered.

When all else fails, the federal government is supposed to be there. If the governor tried to keep power and wasn't up to the task, that's MORE reason for Bush to take over, not less. If the mayor ended up in a corner sucking his thumb, that's not the federal government's excuse not to have done more. It's the reason they should have. I'll blame everyone when the dust settles, but right now, I know the federal government is the one entity and Bush the one person who is accountable, because they always are. We used to know that. What the hell happened?

Any anger is not directed at you, DD.

I, too, never asked anyone their party affiliation. It's often quite obvious. I just happened to state mine on record.

yes, "when all else fails" the feds are supposed to be there. For things to "fail" and it becomes obvious that help is needed, means time has passed. A day? Two? And that's pretty much what happened here, IMO.

 

[bulletgirl2002]

Dara, is it the white house that held up the request? I've only read Washington, which I took to mean some bureacrat in an office somewhere let the paper sit on his desk while he played around with some red tape. Is it Bush personally?

I guess people don't realize that the President is like a CEO of a VERY large company and depends on others to do their jobs too.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Dara, is it the white house that held up the request? I've only read Washington, which I took to mean some bureacrat in an office somewhere let the paper sit on his desk while he played around with some red tape. Is it Bush personally?

I so agree, we just don't know yet! From what TexMex just posted, I'd say she didn't get the paperwork TO Washington on Sunday...if I were a betting person, I bet she got it there on Wednesday...we'll find out, I'm sure....

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Well, while we're all in great debate about this and now pointing fingers somewhat, Pres Bush 41 and Pres Clinton are on TV saying that now is not the time to be blaming! And, I was impressed with what both of them said! Whew.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I guess people don't realize that the President is like a CEO of a VERY large company and depends on others to do their jobs too.

Yes, Bullet. If it was one of Bush's staff that held up paperwork (I just hate to believe that, that a staff member wouldn't make an emergency request a priority!!!), they should be fired after a review of the situation...and Bush should be bopped for having an incompetent staffer.

I say the same thing for if it were one of Blanco's staffers....

 

[Dara]

Dara, is it the white house that held up the request? I've only read Washington, which I took to mean some bureacrat in an office somewhere let the paper sit on his desk while he played around with some red tape. Is it Bush personally?

I'm pretty sure it was the White House. But I suppose in the Bush administration, requests such as this could be dumped on the desk of some flunky. Under a big stack of paper about Iraw, most likely. I guess we'll soon know, but in a state of emergency and promises that the federal government was coordinating with state and local government, someone high up had to know she asked for troops.

But, you know, no matter what, when we all knew babies were dying, the request didn't mean jack. Bush had the power to save lives and he didn't do it. If it's because the governor didn't ask (which...see tybee), it's her fault but ultimately the president's because it's his JOB. If it's because she asked and the request languished, it's still Bush's fault because he's the boss.

Honestly, this whole situation is reminding me of that commercial where a group of people are standing around a piece of garbage on the ground next to a trash can. They all talk endlessly about how wrong it is and what an outrage until one guy walking by bends, picks up the trash, tosses it in the can and keeps going, never saying a word. It doesn't matter how many people stood around and left the trash there (we can and should blame them) . But Bush was supposed to be the guy who picks up the trash. He wasn't supposed to circle the group and wait for them to tell him to.

 

[tybee204]

Hopefully we will find out exactly what brokedown if there are Congressional Hearings. As I have repeated often, those responsible from the bottem to the top need to be held responsible.