I am so Angry

[dakini]

WHO's to blame?

Mother Nature, chaos, human nature, errors of judgment.

The government response was unacceptable. It does not mean the people were bad.

As a citizen, one can, in general, openly oppose the policies and practices of an administration and its leaders.

 

[tipper]

Question: We saw the parking lot full of school busses and wondered why they weren't used to transport people. But since then I've been thinking - Who did the mayor have to drive those busses? I've never driven one and wouldn't volunteer to do so - especially in a crisis situation. I expect most people are the same.

 

[Details]

Stress shows the true quality of people, as it did in the looters and the heros that developed when the nightmare began. It also shows the quality of government.

 

[Dara]

Tuesday morning, it should have been obvious that this went from a minor emergency to an absolute disaster. Anyone who knew anything about New Orleans, and all the media attention before the hurricane about the worries that it would break the levees knew what would happen if they broke. From the instant that happened, getting the national guard and resources out there, evacuating everyone out of there possible should have become a top priority.

Heck, I saw that news, and the graphic of the shape of New Orleans (the infamous bowl), and knew right there that the city was probably lost. It's shocking, and I can see shock and disbelief working for a little while, but there are plenty of disaster experts accessible and probably working for the government at all levels (federal, state, city) to tell what that meant.

Right at that point, everything should have been going in high gear.

FEMA ticks me off - keeping needed supplies out - I get the feeling they were a little territorial on the disaster - but since they didn't have the situation handled, they should have been welcoming help, not blockading it. Doubly so when they allowed the media in!

And that's why I wonder if there is more than simply politics to Blanco's reported refusal to not turn things over. Trust me, I want her held accountable for anything and everything she did wrong. If she had her own interests at heart, it's not simply a shame. It's an unconscionable act that must be addressed.

But FEMA was bungling things. Brown didn't know (supposedly) about the widely reported crises. Was she afraid to give more power to those who were making bad decisions and sending away aid? I don't know. I want to hear both sides of this.

And we do know FEMA anticipated a lot of this when they ran the 2004 drill. Brown said so, though Chertoff contradicts him (but, hey, Bush says no one anticipated the levees breaking. Oy.) But they said in 2004 that the city could be flooded and that many, many people wouldn't leave. I've got their report and plan in its own thread.

 

[Details]

Question: We saw the parking lot full of school busses and wondered why they weren't used to transport people. But since then I've been thinking - Who did the mayor have to drive those busses? I've never driven one and wouldn't volunteer to do so - especially in a crisis situation. I expect most people are the same.

I wouldn't volunteer to drive one - except in a crisis situation. Moving along at a slow speed is better than staying put, and no matter how much I grind the gears, it's probably good enough to go...


IF AND ONLY IF there is somewhere to go. I think that was a key point. To evacuate from the hurricane, you have to go somewhere either outside of the hurricane track (and that was quite a wide zone!) or somewhere else strong enough to shelter from a hurricane. It's not like you can just go drive out a few miles, sleep in your car or any motel you find, and return if everything is OK. The hurricane was huge, and had quite a substantial portion of the United States under threat. Sleep in a motel or in your car 20 miles away, and you might wake up a few hundred feet in the air.

 

[tybee204]

People going to the Superdome were told to bring a 3 day supply of food , water etc. That was Sunday, August 28th. They were not evacuated from the Dome untill this weekend. Any food @ water they brought ran out long before evacuation was done. Many who took shelter in the Dome were homeless. They would not have had access to 1 day supply of food let alone 3 days.

Also the hot conditions in the Dome would have required massive amounts of water intake to prevent dehydration. Reports of temperatures over 120 degrees inside the Dome.

 

[Details]

And non-homeless people with no gas money, no car, no money (this was the day before payday for a lot of people) - a lot of them don't have access to 3 days worth of food and water in a package they can bring. Especially the water. That probably comes from the tap usually, and they probably don't have a set of unused camping supplies gathering dust in the garage.

 

[TexMex]

Coast Guard rescue on Tues 08/28


http://www2.ljworld.com/photos/galleries/hurricane_katrina/5679/

 

[TexMex]

People going to the Superdome were told to bring a 3 day supply of food , water etc. That was Sunday, August 28th. They were not evacuated from the Dome untill this weekend. Any food @ water they brought ran out long before evacuation was done. Many who took shelter in the Dome were homeless. They would not have had access to 1 day supply of food let alone 3 days.

Also the hot conditions in the Dome would have required massive amounts of water intake to prevent dehydration. Reports of temperatures over 120 degrees inside the Dome.

Not many went until Mon and Tues. Some went right before the thing hit Mon morning --then it looked like NO had been spared so they left to go check on their homes/loved ones. Then Tues when the water began to rise the people streamed in.

From the city of NO's plan for hurricane evac

The City of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas. Those evacuated will be directed to temporary sheltering and feeding facilities as needed. When specific routes of progress are required, evacuees will be directed to those routes. Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific life saving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed.

 

[tybee204]

Once they were in the Superdome it is my understanding they were not allowed to leave. 10-15,000 were in there Sunday nite before the Hurricane hit.

 

[kgeaux]

Stress shows the true quality of people, as it did in the looters and the heros that developed when the nightmare began. It also shows the quality of government.

I did hear that the bus drivers, many of them, were among those who chose to obey the evacuation order----this may explain why the busses sat there.

 

[kgeaux]

People going to the Superdome were told to bring a 3 day supply of food , water etc. That was Sunday, August 28th. They were not evacuated from the Dome untill this weekend. Any food @ water they brought ran out long before evacuation was done. Many who took shelter in the Dome were homeless. They would not have had access to 1 day supply of food let alone 3 days.

Also the hot conditions in the Dome would have required massive amounts of water intake to prevent dehydration. Reports of temperatures over 120 degrees inside the Dome.

People in the Super Dome were being given water (2 bottles a day each) and MRE's. Also 2 a day. People on the overpasses weren't receiving any, they weren't in an official evacuation area and no one seemed to go to them. Except reporters.

 

[tybee204]

I have actually read really conflicting reports about what was and what was not distributed at the dome and for how long. That is going to be an investigation in itself.

 

[JBean]

This is completely unprecedented - and although expected, I don't think anyone really realized the full human cost of the plans they had, the disaster scenarios they knew could happen.

One thing - I don't see how any state could be ready to handle even the first 72 hours of something of this size - that FEMA bit seems a lot of a cop-out. This isn't a typical disaster that hits a few city blocks - this is an entire, densely populated city. It applies to a normal disaster, but something of this scale - you can't just go by the rules. Disasters don't go by the rules.

My sister has been a disaster planner for big cities her entire adult career. She said this is basic rule of thumb stuff. All her cities were able to self sustain for 72 hours or she wasn't doing her job. It's all about advance planning.


ETA: maybe disasters don't follow rules , but one can have a pretty good idea what to expect.

 

[Details]

My sister has been a disaster planner for big cities her entire adult career. She said this is basic rule of thumb stuff. All her cities were able to self sustain for 72 hours or she wasn't doing her job. It's all about advance planning.


ETA: maybe disasters don't follow rules , but one can have a pretty good idea what to expect.

I just wonder how they handle things like the lack of communications, most of the roads into town being destroyed, or in a hypothetical - let's say that the storage location for the emergency supplies is destroyed by the emergency?

It just seems that saying that a 72 hour delay is OK because they were supposed to be able to handle that part of the disaster is not something that can be expected to always be true. Sometimes unforseen things happen - in this case, the shooting at rescuers; and in part, the breach of the levee well after they thought they were done with the hurricane.

 

[marrigotti]

I just wonder how they handle things like the lack of communications, most of the roads into town being destroyed, or in a hypothetical - let's say that the storage location for the emergency supplies is destroyed by the emergency?

It just seems that saying that a 72 hour delay is OK because they were supposed to be able to handle that part of the disaster is not something that can be expected to always be true. Sometimes unforseen things happen - in this case, the shooting at rescuers; and in part, the breach of the levee well after they thought they were done with the hurricane.

The levee issue was a well known issue.

 

[Dara]

My sister has been a disaster planner for big cities her entire adult career. She said this is basic rule of thumb stuff. All her cities were able to self sustain for 72 hours or she wasn't doing her job. It's all about advance planning.


ETA: maybe disasters don't follow rules , but one can have a pretty good idea what to expect.

FEMA knew in June 2004 that the city would likely flood and that many people would not for whatever reason evacuate. I assume they also knew of the poverty level. They made a whole plan for that area, but from what I can see, that plan wasn't implemented too well.

 

[marrigotti]

FEMA knew in June 2004 that the city would likely flood and that many people would not for whatever reason evacuate. I assume they also knew of the poverty level. They made a whole plan for that area, but from what I can see, that plan wasn't implemented too well.

That is true; however, the city and state's plan wasn't implemented too well either. Looks to me like things fell apart from top to bottom.

 

[JBean]

I just wonder how they handle things like the lack of communications, most of the roads into town being destroyed, or in a hypothetical - let's say that the storage location for the emergency supplies is destroyed by the emergency?

It just seems that saying that a 72 hour delay is OK because they were supposed to be able to handle that part of the disaster is not something that can be expected to always be true. Sometimes unforseen things happen - in this case, the shooting at rescuers; and in part, the breach of the levee well after they thought they were done with the hurricane.

But that's what disasters are all about.. Everything you mentioned is a foreseeable event in a disaster. It's all about planning..Thats what city and state safety planners are hired to do. I cannot even tell you how upset my sister is about this because she knows in her heart that the local level could have done much much more, because that's what she does, prepares for diasters on the city and state level. Her work with FEMA is secondary to having her areas covered, while waiting for FEMA. She told me she has to have her area in a position to sustain, for 72 hours as best she can... period ...that's her job.

 

[Dara]

The levee issue was a well known issue.

Yes. To most of us. With at least one notable exception:

For instance, Bush said Thursday, "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."