I am so Angry

[Dara]

I'm not sure what request of tybee's you're talking about. I guess I missed it.

Not to get personal. Address the post, not the poster. I guess a few of you missed it. But this weekend, I was the topic of conversation here and it detracted from the discussion.

Then maybe we should blame YOU

Good idea. Blame also everyone else who knew Wednesday. Blame the governor, blame the mayor, blame everyone who knew. That would leave out Brown and Chertoff, but at least finally includes Bush. That's a start.

ummm, where did I say that? I've said several times there's plenty of blame to go around, but I think it needs to start with local government first since they have PRIMARY responsibility for local citizens.

So, can you give me a timeline for what it's acceptable to acknowledge Bush's culpability?

 

[TexMex]

I won't concede anything because you aren't aware of the post that had the confirmation. If I can't prove it, I have to concede? I should concede to something I know is untrue. LOL. I'll stick with the truth and trust you to look for the proof if you are actually concerned with the truth and not just defending Bush.

The proof is in another thread and was linked to. This weekend. If you don't want to believe, don't. It gives you an out, if you want to keep believing Bush just couldn't do one little thing without the governor letting him. If not, you might just consider Bush made a grave error that cost lives.

But even his supporters are saying he gave Blanco the choice. He deferred to her, according to Mayor Nagin.

OMG

Bush followed the Constitution and let a duly elected Gov do what she felt was needed for HER state.



It is against the law for any President to order troops into a city or across state lines without a request and permission from the Governor of that state.

John Armor, a First Amendment lawyer: "Federal law prevents the President from sending in the National Guard until the Governor gives the order. It is little known, but the Commanding General of the National Guard in every state reports to the Governor, not the President, until the Governor says otherwise. U.S. military units (regular Army, not the Guard) cannot be used because of the Posse Comitatus law, until the Guard has been authorized."

 

[marrigotti]

Which one? I keep asking about the 24 grace period and Tex keeps not exactly answering that.

So, there are a lot of posts.

I am referring to her post with reference to the Wall Street Journal.

 

[marrigotti]

OMG

Bush followed the Constitution and let a duly elected Gov do what she felt was needed for HER state.



It is against the law for any President to order troops into a city or across state lines without a request and permission from the Governor of that state.

John Armor, a First Amendment lawyer: "Federal law prevents the President from sending in the National Guard until the Governor gives the order. It is little known, but the Commanding General of the National Guard in every state reports to the Governor, not the President, until the Governor says otherwise. U.S. military units (regular Army, not the Guard) cannot be used because of the Posse Comitatus law, until the Guard has been authorized."

Thanks so much! :clap:

 

[Dara]

I haven't the slightest interest in "defending" Bush. I feel that the federal government did make errors; however, so did the state and local government. As best I can understand, you choose to hold Bush accountable for their errors as well as the federal government's errors.

I see clearly that that is the best you can understand. It is, however, an inaccurate understanding.

I knew it would be almost impossible to have a clear picture of what was going on at the state and local level for a long time. We sure don't have one yet. But no matter what, and especially if, the state and local government failed and failed spectacularly, and Bush chose to say, Well, you want to keep trying for 24 hours or should I take over, that's of great concern to me.

He had the power. Believe it or don't

You are not obliged to produce support for your position. You would, however, be more persuasive if you did so.

I don't think some posters would take me serously unless I said Bush is the best prez ever and did a faboo job with this mess. And that's ok. Plenty of others do. I do provide support (and I link to what I post, so you can check the veracity and have the whole context). I'm not going to look up that one thing, because it's been accepted as common knowledge based on a long long LONG debate this weekend. It's not my job to persuade you. If you want to know the truth, dig a little. I did.

 

[less0305]

Oh, I have a question. Can someone please point me in the direction in what part of the constitution of the United States is it written that the President is the boss of a governor? That would be a new one on me....but I'd love to see it in the U.S. Constitution. Seems to me the President couldn't even override a STATE JUDGE in Florida not too long ago. I'm eager to learn.

 

[Dara]

OMG

Bush followed the Constitution and let a duly elected Gov do what she felt was needed for HER state.



It is against the law for any President to order troops into a city or across state lines without a request and permission from the Governor of that state.

John Armor, a First Amendment lawyer: "Federal law prevents the President from sending in the National Guard until the Governor gives the order. It is little known, but the Commanding General of the National Guard in every state reports to the Governor, not the President, until the Governor says otherwise. U.S. military units (regular Army, not the Guard) cannot be used because of the Posse Comitatus law, until the Guard has been authorized."

And after that was posted this weekend, it was later corrected that in a state of federal emergency, Bush could have sent them in.

I thought you were posting when that was determined.

 

[JBean]

ummm, where did I say that? I've said several times there's plenty of blame to go around, but I think it needs to start with local government first since they have PRIMARY responsibility for local citizens.

This is the cornerstone of the whole debacle. The local government has GOT to be able to sustain themsleves until FEMA arrives. period. If they cannot they have the wrong people in place in elected and paid positions.
I can tell you that I now know that my area is not covered as well as I thought it would be in case of an Earthquake. But my beef will not be with FEMA It will be with whom I have put in local office and how much priority they have given it or will give it. If they need help they better go get it..NOW.
This governor should have known a long long long time ago that she couldn't handle it. That's what planning is about.There is no excuse for it IMO, none. If she didn;t know she couldn't handle it..who would know?

 

[marrigotti]

And after that was posted this weekend, it was later corrected that in a state of federal emergency, Bush could have sent them in.

I thought you were posting when that was determined.

The president does have the right in certain circumstances to waive this, but I am not certain that this would have been deemed a federal emergency. I would be interested if anyone knows of instances where there was a waiver and what the circumstances were.

 

[Dara]

The president does have the right in certain circumstances to waive this, but I am not certain that this would have been deemed a federal emergency. I would be interested if anyone knows of instances where there was a waiver and what the circumstances were.

Well, I have put the big dogs on this, lol. I've got my local librarians looking it up so that hopefully we have a definitive answer. At my library they dont move fast, but they're wonderful at helping with research.

I know one was reference was already posted, but I can't find it.

If I had to believe that the president has no power above the governor under any circumstances in a federal emergency, I might never sleep again. And Mitt Romney is my governor. He ain't perfect, but I've seen nothing to suggest he'd be a disaster in, well, a disaster.

 

[Ntegrity]

The president does have the right in certain circumstances to waive this, but I am not certain that this would have been deemed a federal emergency. I would be interested if anyone knows of instances where there was a waiver and what the circumstances were.

I haven't read it all, but 1st paragraph on page 2 says "The President of the United States has available certain powers that may be exercised in the event that the nation is threatened by crisis, exigency, or emergency circumstances other than natural disaster, ..."

Am I reading that right? I'm busy and no time to read the entire document. Here, y'all have at it.

National Emergency Powers (Order Code 98-505 GOV)

 

[Ntegrity]

Starting on page 16 of that document is a list of "Declared National Emergencies, 1976-2001". Not a single natural disaster included. :razz:

 

[marrigotti]

I haven't read it all, but 1st paragraph on page 2 says "The President of the United States has available certain powers that may be exercised in the event that the nation is threatened by crisis, exigency, or emergency circumstances other than natural disaster, ..."

Am I reading that right? I'm busy and no time to read the entire document. Here, y'all have at it.

National Emergency Powers (Order Code 98-505 GOV)

Thanks for the link, Ntegrity.

 

[BarnGoddess]

Oh, I have a question. Can someone please point me in the direction in what part of the constitution of the United States is it written that the President is the boss of a governor? That would be a new one on me....but I'd love to see it in the U.S. Constitution. Seems to me the President couldn't even override a STATE JUDGE in Florida not too long ago. I'm eager to learn.

Gosh, I'm just getting caught up. You beat me to it. Our states may be UNITED, but each STATE is autonomous. The governor of Louisiana or any other state for that matter does not have a boss.

 

[marrigotti]

Well, I have put the big dogs on this, lol. I've got my local librarians looking it up so that hopefully we have a definitive answer. At my library they dont move fast, but they're wonderful at helping with research.

I know one was reference was already posted, but I can't find it.

If I had to believe that the president has no power above the governor under any circumstances in a federal emergency, I might never sleep again. And Mitt Romney is my governor. He ain't perfect, but I've seen nothing to suggest he'd be a disaster in, well, a disaster.

Well, from reading TexMex's submission, I am still not certain, and the scope of the document specifically does not address natural disasters. It does note that some people would argue that natural disasters qualify, but that's it.

 

[Dara]

What does FEMA do? Prepares – Responds – Helps Recover – Reduces Risk

Coordinates the Federal Response to Presidentially Declared Disasters

So, according to FEMA, they are the ones responsible for coordinating the federal response.

Maybe not the whole answer, but a piece of the puzzle. Still looking and so is the wonderful librarian I'm working with.

 

[Dara]

Wonderful librarian is now as frustrated as the rest of us, and this is what she does every day. She's still looking but it may take until tomorrow. I know the answer is in this forum somewhere.

 

[Ntegrity]

Wonderful librarian is now as frustrated as the rest of us, and this is what she does every day. She's still looking but it may take until tomorrow. I know the answer is in this forum somewhere.

Maybe in the document I already referenced?

Gosh, where's JBean's disaster sis when we need her?

 

[Dara]

Maybe in the document I already referenced?

Gosh, where's JBean's disaster sis when we need her?

I'm looking through that as well, but I also activated my state's online library reference so I could have the librarian looking, too.

 

[Maral]

The president does have the right in certain circumstances to waive this, but I am not certain that this would have been deemed a federal emergency. I would be interested if anyone knows of instances where there was a waiver and what the circumstances were.

From the
National Response Plan :

Protocols for proactive Federal response are most likely to be implemented for catastrophic events involving chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, or high-yield explosive weapons of mass destruction, or large magnitude earthquakes or other natural or technological disasters in or near heavily populated areas.

Guiding principles for proactive Federal response include the following:
■ The primary mission is to save lives; protect critical infrastructure, property, and the environment; contain the event; and preserve national security.
■ Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances, suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of catastrophic magnitude.
■ Identified Federal response resources will deploy and begin necessary operations as required to commence life-safety activities.
■ Notification and full coordination with States will occur, but the coordination process must not delay or impede the rapid deployment and use of critical resources. States are urged to notify and coordinate with local governments regarding a proactive Federal response.
■ State and local governments are encouraged to conduct collaborative planning with the Federal Government as a part of "steady-state" preparedness for catastrophic incidents.