I am so Angry

[bulletgirl2002]

Some folks just won't be happy until Bush's head is served up on a platter. Forget separation of powers between state and federal government.

Does anyone else remember how much criticism Bush received for meddling in state affairs during the Terri Schiavo travesty? I wonder if the same people were screaming about him overstepping his powers in that instance??!!

Sheesh

Yeppers....he is damned if he do and damned if he don't imo.

 

[marrigotti]

This would seem to imply that the President could have gone forward instead of deferring to the governor. Still, I am hoping to get a constitutional law read on this. The fact that it is contained in governmental protocols would seem to support Dara's contention. Now I am really curious.

 

[TexMex]

This would seem to imply that the President could have gone forward instead of deferring to the governor. Still, I am hoping to get a constitutional law read on this. The fact that it is contained in governmental protocols would seem to support Dara's contention. Now I am really curious.

Very confusing. I'd like to know if this Nat. Response Plan is part of the US Code


http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode50/usc_sup_01_50_10_34.html

 

[Dara]

Ntegrity, the more I read your document, the more I think the President had the power to do much more than he did, even if the governor said no. But I can't say this proves it. From your document:

Federal law provides a variety of powers for the President to use in response to crisis, exigency, or emergency circumstances threatening the nation. Moreover, they are not limited to military or war situations. Some of these authorities, deriving from the Constitution or statutory law, are continuously available to the President with little or no qualification. Others—statutory delegations from Congress—exist on a standby basis and remain dormant until the President formally declares a national
emergency. These delegations or grants of power authorize the President to meet the problems of governing effectively in times of crisis. Under the powers delegated by such statutes, the President may seize property, organize and control the means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, institute martial law, seize and control all transportation and communication, regulate the operation of private enterprise, restrict travel, and, in a variety of ways, control the lives of United States citizens. Furthermore, Congress may modify, rescind, or render dormant such delegated emergency authority.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

One thing I have learned while working in a gov't agency, is that many of the plans are long, and repeat over and over (imagine that!). Sometimes taking parts or sections out can lead to one conclusion; whereas, in it's entirety, it may have a different conclusion. Also, heck, we've got SEVERAL AGENCY-wide manuals, and then Policy/Procedure Books, and then we have REGIONAL manuals, etc. Then, of course, there's interpretation which can be guided by the person in command. Although the manuals/policies/procedures may not have changed, interpretation often changes when a new commander comes in.

BUT...not only do some of the sections repeat sometimes, when they do, they have been known to contradict another section. (Again, imagine that!) Then the big boys have to :slap: amongst themselves and come to consensus on what the "intent" was.

I didn't have a chance to read the 45-page document from yesterday that I think Jelly attached, but I will, and I will probably find it quite interesting. It would also be interesting, down the road, to compare it to the City's "plan." Normally, as bureaucracies go, there's more specifics and details the "lower" you are in a chain (i.e., City level), then State, etc. The detail at the top will be the most broad, or vague, haha.

Just FYI for those who really have never dealt with gov't plans, procedures, etc. (Sorry if everyone already knew all that.) This is how a lot of the "the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing" can and does occur. And again, for lil' ol' me, it will be interesting to compare detail later.

 

[bulletgirl2002]

This would seem to imply that the President could have gone forward instead of deferring to the governor. Still, I am hoping to get a constitutional law read on this. The fact that it is contained in governmental protocols would seem to support Dara's contention. Now I am really curious.

I don't think it is a protocal, I think it is a plan, but it is 114 pages long and I haven't had the chance to read it. I don't even know if it has been implemented. Perhaps someone with more time and energy can read through. Someone who will not "pick and choose" what they want to see.....hint hint..

 

[less0305]

Gosh, I'm just getting caught up. You beat me to it. Our states may be UNITED, but each STATE is autonomous. The governor of Louisiana or any other state for that matter does not have a boss.

Thanks Barn....I sure thought so. But, you know, I been out of school a long time and some people make it up as they go along.

 

[bulletgirl2002]

Very confusing. I'd like to know if this Nat. Response Plan is part of the US Code


http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode50/usc_sup_01_50_10_34.html

No it is not. It is a plan....

 

[marrigotti]

Ntegrity, the more I read your document, the more I think the President had the power to do much more than he did, even if the governor said no. But I can't say this proves it. From your document:

Ntegrity's document specifically states that it does NOT address natural disasters. We need to find something that does.

 

[Dara]

This would seem to imply that the President could have gone forward instead of deferring to the governor. Still, I am hoping to get a constitutional law read on this. The fact that it is contained in governmental protocols would seem to support Dara's contention. Now I am really curious.

I am hoping I have a definitive answer soon. But it probably won't be before tomorrow, since the librarian gave me some phone numbers to call. I'll keep looking online, though, as I'm able.

 

[TexMex]

No it is not. It is a plan....

Was just reading it took 5 days to get Fed troops into FLA after Andrew!

 

[Dara]

Ntegrity's document specifically states that it does NOT address natural disasters. We need to find something that does.

Did you read the part Ntegrity quoted in context?

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Yeppers....he is damned if he do and damned if he don't imo.

Just in general...remind me never to let anyone I care about, friends, family, co-workers, the neighbor lady...to ever run for elected office. Obviously I'm being a little bit sarcastic, but not completely, as I think it's sad. What a tough job, and yet I think there are some very good people in this country that won't run for office because of all the cr**. Too bad. Really.

(But yet, the greatest form of government, I think...it just has flaws, just like me.)

 

[Ntegrity]

Ntegrity's document specifically states that it does NOT address natural disasters. We need to find something that does.

That's the way I interpreted it too. The other document (National Response Plan) seems to address this situation better and is a much newer document. I still don't believe a president can override a governor's authority ... but I could be wrong.

 

[marrigotti]

Did you read the part Ntegrity quoted in context?

Yes, Dara, I did; however, the document itself says that it is not addressing waiver in environmental disasters. I am looking for something that does. No success so far.

 

[TexMex]

That's the way I interpreted it too. The other document (National Response Plan) seems to address this situation better and is a much newer document. I still don't believe a president can override a governor's authority ... but I could be wrong.

Officials Say Red Tape Hindered Relief
Sep 06 12:06 PM US/Eastern


By MARTHA MENDOZA



The federal government actually wrote a "How To" book for national catastrophes after the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks. The 426-page document, called the National Response Plan, was released in December, 2004.

Frank Cilluffo, director of the Homeland Security Policy Institute at George Washington University, said Hurricane Katrina is the first real test of the plan, and has exposed its strengths and weaknesses.

"Quite honestly, at the federal level, the coordination was quite robust," he said. "It's just the interface between federal, state and local where clearly we need to look to ways to improve the process."

 

[marrigotti]

That's the way I interpreted it too. The other document (National Response Plan) seems to address this situation better and is a much newer document. I still don't believe a president can override a governor's authority ... but I could be wrong.

I have found documents stating that the governor's permission must be given. I am still trying to find anything that suggests that there are exceptions.

 

[less0305]

I would love for this thread to become I Am So Angry Part 2. This is getting to be sooooo long in nature. But I don't want to start any discension. So I'll move to another thread if anyone else thinks that's a good idea.

 

[Dara]

It does seem to exclude natural disasters, but what it does say is:

While some might argue that the concept of emergency powers can be extended to embrace authority exercised in response to circumstances of natural disaster, this dimension is not within the scope of this report. Various federal response arrangements and programs for dealing with natural disasters have been established and administered with no potential or actual disruption of constitutional arrangements[font=&quot]. [/font]

I wish they'd been nice enough to tell us what arrangements and programs those are. FEMA surely is one, yes? Homeland Security? What other arrangements are there?

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Officials Say Red Tape Hindered Relief
Sep 06 12:06 PM US/Eastern


By MARTHA MENDOZA



The federal government actually wrote a "How To" book for national catastrophes after the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks. The 426-page document, called the National Response Plan, was released in December, 2004.

Frank Cilluffo, director of the Homeland Security Policy Institute at George Washington University, said Hurricane Katrina is the first real test of the plan, and has exposed its strengths and weaknesses.

"Quite honestly, at the federal level, the coordination was quite robust," he said. "It's just the interface between federal, state and local where clearly we need to look to ways to improve the process."

Thank you, Tex. The last sentence, IMO, speaks volumes. No matter who we want to blame, and when, this is the big picture. All can do better coordination. All.