I can't find a hole in this theory...

[Whaleshark]

Whaleshark, this is so long and convoluted it's hard for me to understand exactly what you are getting at.

You always make remarks like that to me about my posts -- 'they are so long and confusing all over the place that you just don't get it'. I knew you were going to say that, too, as I almost put an additional comment to read it slow and read it twice, if you were going to say that.

I made all those points to flow into eliminating each scenario and why it is still important either way to have a RN as evidence. With the importance of the RN, we have to determine how/when he would have police see it as evidence - whether by 911 call, taking to the station, handing over a copy, or whatever.

That's why I said to please follow the logic. That's why I said to bear with me. It was not convoluted; it flowed with the thinking of starting with your question and going through each scenario or possibility of the rest of his plan.
There was a whole main idea of critical and logical thinking from beginning to end carefully considering the mindset and thinking of John Ramsey. And you just say 'you don't get it'.

You always comment about being irritated or misunderstanding my long posts, but you have a whole blog about the case, with a lot of long posts about the case as well.

I guess no one else is supposed to think too hard about anything else or else it is just 'too confusing'.

As to whether or not he'd have wanted to be the one to find the body, my guess is that the body was probably hidden in a corner under blankets. He claimed it was right out in the open, but my feeling is that he was lying. If he hadn't been the one to find it, then Fleet would probably have discovered how well hidden it was and that would certainly have looked bad.

But once he has 'discovered' the body in that room, it already looks that bad. He's already saying that the kidnapper managed to find that room and put her in there anyway - .... still seems like a bigger risk to be the one to find her if he was orig. going to remove her, and not let someone else eventually find her - as for her being hidden in the corner of the room, and that looking bad, if the kidnappers managed to find the room anyway, and we believe they are hiding her there, the story could be they wanted to have her hidden as far in the house as possible to not be found while trying to still collect ransom...

The important fact is that he found the body. In the house. Hidden in the most remote spot in the basement.

Right, but if you've staged the body and you've hidden it in a place that is obvious that would be very hard for an intruder to even know exists, you've just magnified the suspicion on you tenfold anyway. The only way this looks like you didn't do it, is to point the finger at the only other people who would know where that room is as well -- the hired housekeeper people, and/or anyone who is intimately acquainted with the Ramseys and their house - which is what he did when he said 'this is an inside job'..... Perhaps she is staged to be found in that room because only those few people would know of that room.

If he and Patsy were collaborating on a coverup that body would have been removed from the basement and dumped somewhere prior to calling the police. Guaranteed. Otherwise the ransom note makes no sense at all, and does nothing for them. It becomes evidence against them, as a matter of fact.

It's evidence against them anyway, even if she is not found. All the same findings of the note would be found - whose pad, pen, handwriting samples, etc.

(Even though there was a ransom note in the Zahra Baker case and her body was removed like it should have been, the parents were still #1 suspects, the note still pointed to them, and the first associated 911 call was made by the stepmom who also authored the note....).

And the Ramseys still could have been on it together, since they need to call people by a certain time to say they aren't going to make their plans as expected -

And really, don't they need to call police because of Burke? Because if Patsy and John are collaborating, where is Burke going to be? If he is to be taken to a friend's, what is to be told to them and/or Burke, about JonBenet?

If he is supposed to stay with them, so there are no questions asked, how do they keep the info from Burke? Even if they sneak the body out while he is in the house, what is he going to ask about where she is?

If he's involved, they have to call police anyway because he knows what happened, or if he caused her injury and they are covering up, and he didn't realize he hurt her, he'll still need to know where she is, or what happened.

I mean, don't they really have no choice but to call police because Burke is there?

.... Well, you'll say not really, if they are following the ransom note warnings to not call police and perhaps tell Burke she was taken but that they can't call police because of the warnings... Same with friends and neighbors.... Yes, you stated so earlier...

Right, so all the more reason there is a ransom note to prove they were told not to call police. Several people need to know why he, or they, are doing what they are doing, and why they would not call police at a certain time. Ransom note information is needed in either scenario... So even if they get Burke out of the house without calling police, they need to explain why they are not calling police. And they need the ransom note later when there is no body and to explain their actions between finding the note and the later 911 call when she is never found or kidnappers did not follow through....

 

[DeeDee249]

There is another version told to LE by Patsy, where she claims that "I hear John screaming as he comes up from the BASEMENT, so that differs markedly from the other version where Patsy claims she screamed for JR and he was still upstairs, although BOTH may have happened, with the basement scream coming second.

BTW, I don't feel like I am in a morass, abyss, or anything like that because I believe what I believe. However, until we get some cooperation from the "new DA" and some LE with a spine, we are ALL in "limbo" as far as this case is concerned.

 

[InstantProof]

But this is, admittedly speculation. The important fact is that he found the body. In the house. Hidden in the most remote spot in the basement. If he and Patsy were collaborating on a coverup that body would have been removed from the basement and dumped somewhere prior to calling the police. Guaranteed. Otherwise the ransom note makes no sense at all, and does nothing for them. It becomes evidence against them, as a matter of fact.

Sometimes I wonder if J or P or both thought the police would be out looking for a missing child with little focus on the home she was supposedly no longer in.

 

[txsvicki]

Or a note written by a deranged psycho who had stalked the family. Possibly an inside job but knowing that everyone would have an alibi on christmas. Then when/IF the body was found it would turn to pedophile stalker intent on taking jonbenet but she fought and he killed and assaulted her there. If she had been found outside the home it would appear she'd been snatched with her blanket and assaulted elsewhere. The note seems to cover any possible outcome and scenario. Imo patsy was too dramatic to come up with that.

 

[dodie20]

I haven't read a single theory, that doesn't have holes in it. The main problem, is we don't have access to all of the evidence, and we're left trying to fill in the holes. I guarantee there's information, if released to the public, that would have us all slapping our foreheads and saying, 'Now, this makes sense', and all the puzzle pieces would quickly fall into place. So, although I admit this theory is interesting and has possibilities, it depends too much on supposition and guess work...such as assuming PR would Not call 911, if she had written the note. There's no way to know any such thing. We also have to assume she, JR, and BR all lied about it being JR's idea to call, and honestly, that's a hard leap to make. We also have to ignore the witness who claimed she heard the scream, because she's 'flaky', and even if she Did hear the scream, accept that it has nothing to do with solving this crime. I can't do that, because the housekeeper reported that PR and JB often fought and screamed in the bathroom, so there seemed to be a history of PR making JB scream, and it being ignored....unless we assume the housekeeper was lying, and I can't do that either. I'm not putting this theory down, just stating what I see as holes, but it's just as good as any other theory, and deserves to be considered. IMO, 1 'new' piece of evidence that might help solve this case, is the feces covered chocolates... but it depends on who smeared the chocolates. If it was BR, ok, I can understand people suspecting him, but if the feces belonged to JB, then IMO, I see a motive for PR to rage. And yes, rage is important in this case, because of the head bash. MOO

 

[Chrishope]

You always make remarks like that to me about my posts -- 'they are so long and confusing all over the place that you just don't get it'. I knew you were going to say that, too, as I almost put an additional comment to read it slow and read it twice, if you were going to say that.

I made all those points to flow into eliminating each scenario and why it is still important either way to have a RN as evidence. With the importance of the RN, we have to determine how/when he would have police see it as evidence - whether by 911 call, taking to the station, handing over a copy, or whatever.

That's why I said to please follow the logic. That's why I said to bear with me. It was not convoluted; it flowed with the thinking of starting with your question and going through each scenario or possibility of the rest of his plan.
There was a whole main idea of critical and logical thinking from beginning to end carefully considering the mindset and thinking of John Ramsey. And you just say 'you don't get it'.

You always comment about being irritated or misunderstanding my long posts, but you have a whole blog about the case, with a lot of long posts about the case as well.

I guess no one else is supposed to think too hard about anything else or else it is just 'too confusing'.



But once he has 'discovered' the body in that room, it already looks that bad. He's already saying that the kidnapper managed to find that room and put her in there anyway - .... still seems like a bigger risk to be the one to find her if he was orig. going to remove her, and not let someone else eventually find her - as for her being hidden in the corner of the room, and that looking bad, if the kidnappers managed to find the room anyway, and we believe they are hiding her there, the story could be they wanted to have her hidden as far in the house as possible to not be found while trying to still collect ransom...



Right, but if you've staged the body and you've hidden it in a place that is obvious that would be very hard for an intruder to even know exists, you've just magnified the suspicion on you tenfold anyway. The only way this looks like you didn't do it, is to point the finger at the only other people who would know where that room is as well -- the hired housekeeper people, and/or anyone who is intimately acquainted with the Ramseys and their house - which is what he did when he said 'this is an inside job'..... Perhaps she is staged to be found in that room because only those few people would know of that room.




It's evidence against them anyway, even if she is not found. All the same findings of the note would be found - whose pad, pen, handwriting samples, etc.

(Even though there was a ransom note in the Zahra Baker case and her body was removed like it should have been, the parents were still #1 suspects, the note still pointed to them, and the first associated 911 call was made by the stepmom who also authored the note....).

And the Ramseys still could have been on it together, since they need to call people by a certain time to say they aren't going to make their plans as expected -

And really, don't they need to call police because of Burke? Because if Patsy and John are collaborating, where is Burke going to be? If he is to be taken to a friend's, what is to be told to them and/or Burke, about JonBenet?

If he is supposed to stay with them, so there are no questions asked, how do they keep the info from Burke? Even if they sneak the body out while he is in the house, what is he going to ask about where she is?

If he's involved, they have to call police anyway because he knows what happened, or if he caused her injury and they are covering up, and he didn't realize he hurt her, he'll still need to know where she is, or what happened.

I mean, don't they really have no choice but to call police because Burke is there?

.... Well, you'll say not really, if they are following the ransom note warnings to not call police and perhaps tell Burke she was taken but that they can't call police because of the warnings... Same with friends and neighbors.... Yes, you stated so earlier...

Right, so all the more reason there is a ransom note to prove they were told not to call police. Several people need to know why he, or they, are doing what they are doing, and why they would not call police at a certain time. Ransom note information is needed in either scenario... So even if they get Burke out of the house without calling police, they need to explain why they are not calling police. And they need the ransom note later when there is no body and to explain their actions between finding the note and the later 911 call when she is never found or kidnappers did not follow through....

I found it hard to follow as well.

I agree that once the body was found it looks bad for the Rs. It doesn't matter all that much who the "finder" is. The situation screams "Our daughter was murdered in the house last night and the kidnapping scenario was faked to cover it up". Why the weren't arrested on the spot I will never understand. There is no way kidnappers could reasonably expect the body to remain unfound before collecting the ransom. Extremely improbable.

Dumping the body is more probable that the Rs wanting the police to find her.

There is no real need for the police to see the ransom note. It might be better if they don't. If there are a handful of witnesses who saw the note then the existence of the note is established, but the cops have nothing to analyze.

 

[Chrishope]

So bear with me here -- try and follow the logic -

So why would John need to go get the body at all then, and put her right in their face? If his orig. plan was screwed & he wasn't planning on going to get the body till later that evening in his ‘original plan’, and had planned to dispose of her body anyway, then why would he think he needed to go get her now? If he was planning on keeping her hidden in the house till later, should it have mattered - even though the police were staying put, not leaving, and not allowing him to follow his orig. plan? – It shouldn't matter, because he should not ‘know’ that she is hidden in the house, in the wine cellar, esp. if he supposedly looked for her earlier...

If he didn't want the cops to find her, and he planned to get rid of the body, he didn't have any urgent need to go get her. What's the difference in him bringing her up now, or letting them find her then at that point, since his 'original plan' was blown?

I know; I know – if there is a RN there should be no body.
Yes, but then if there now has to be a body because his plan is screwed, he should at least not be the one to go straight to the hidden room and find her!

Best at that point, to definitely NOT be the one to find her….
(Unless of course, the RN is just a note to point to an intruder, not to literally follow the Ransom Note….there’s a thought.)

Right. It doesn't really make all that much difference who finds the body, once it's found the kidnapping scenario evaporates. It looks like the RN was written to fake a kidnapping to cover a murder.

Maybe JR thinks if he finds the body it somehow looks less suspicious? As though he wouldn't find the body if he was guilty? I don't know, I see it as a faked kidnapping with a family member as the murderer no matter who finds her.

I don't see how the note points to an intruder, given there is no evidence of an intruder and no plausible reason for an intruder to leave a RN and a body.

Automatically, it made him look more guilty to go straight where she was and happen to find her, rather than just leave her there and not be the one to find her. Even if she would have started to stink or whatever, why does he need to go?….

He looks guilty anyway.

And if he planned to dispose of the body in the first place, then he couldn't have been worried about a 'proper burial' if she's going to be out in the elements -- UNLESS he planned on being able to 'recover' her right away, which then wouldn't have mattered where she was 'dumped', or where she was ‘found’ - if HE was to be the one to find her, or told by the kidnappers where to find her, or to have been the one to pick her up, right?

Interesting. I'd not considered that he might say the body was returned to him. I don't take the "proper burial" stuff very seriously, but you've got a point.

So, if he was planning on getting the body out of the house, to 'pick her up from the kidnappers', then he has to take her body to the 'pick up' place, right?

But then was he just going to drive to a location, keep her in the car, then say he found her there? Was he to drop her off in the elements and leave her there for a while, risking someone else find her? If he wanted to make sure he was the one who got her back, and wanted her body for burial, why wouldn’t he just keep her in the car and not drop her anywhere; better yet, why take her anywhere at all? If no one else knew where she was hidden, & the other Ramseys are to be out of the house, then why does he need to plan to remove the body from the house at all, if he will be the one to go get her?

If he was smart, he'd have laid the body at the pick up point long enough to pick up trace evidence, then put her back in the car - in the back seat. Carpet fibers from the trunk of the car would be hard to explain. I'm assuming that he wouldn't treat her body as luggage, were this a real kidnapping scenario.

So then if he is the one to go ‘pick her up’, the police are never called like he supposedly wanted, and he’s following his original plan, & got rid of the ransom note, does he just have the body at that point, and nothing to show for evidence of an intruder/kidnapper? Or, no body & no ransom note either?

So to answer that, you've said he may have planned then to make a copy of the RN for police. Ok, but if he’s planning on ‘picking up’ her body, & if he has a RN copy, he STILL ends up with a RN and a dead body. And if he comes back with only a body, and no RN, he looks even more guilty, because he’s the only witness to everything and there’s no evidence of anyone else.

No, he has witnesses who saw the note. He's established the note, w/o leaving the cops the actual note to analyze.

…So, if he’s planning on NOT having the body recovered, saying the kidnappers denied him the body, then he definitely needs some proof of a RN, because no call to police was made, he’s back to having a missing daughter, and his whereabouts during all this time are unaccounted for….

And at some point a 911 call still has to be made anyway.

If he is going to leave her ’missing’, he’s got to have SOME proof of the kidnappers – whether it’s a copy of the RN or the original, he’s got to have some proof – and if we are to think he’s planning and calculating enough to stage all this and plan to go make these errands, then to say he planned on saying the kidnappers might have asked for the RN back because he would say that they said they didn’t want their handwriting figured out…Well—first, how would they not expect him just to make a copy of the ransom note while he is out getting the money or whatever? Which you said he would have thought to make for himself to give to the police anyway… So if he would have thought to make a copy, then why would he not think the kidnappers would think he might make one?

The kidnappers might have thought he'd make a copy. There isn't much they could do to prevent it, other than abandon the kidnapping.

Even if he thinks he is going to go through all that to get out of being caught – him doing all the stuff on his own with no ‘proof’ of anyone else, or anything else, really doesn’t make him less of a suspect. It makes him look more of a suspect. And if he’s supposed to be smart enough to put all that plan together, he’s got to be smart enough to know it doesn’t make him look any less guilty without some evidence of a kidnapper....

He doesn't care about being a suspect. He cares about not being convicted of murder. The police can suspect him all they like, but there still has to be evidence to convict him.

Thing is, if we don’t have a body, then we need to have the Ransom Note. The RN had to be just as important as evidence for the police, as you say it was for Patsy…. Body or no body, original or copy – it HAD to be for the police too. Otherwise, who cares if it’s 3 pages long, with a whole devised story? If he’s having Patsy read through it just once and he plans on getting rid of it, getting her and Burke out of the house, and getting on with his plan, what does it matter of the details, if only he was to see most of it?

But as you say, if there’s a RN there should be no body.

Ok, but if there was to be no body, there needed to be a Ransom Note.

Ransom Note is crucial, especially if there is no body.

The RN, then, is NOT just for Patsy – whether the body was really supposed to ever be removed from the house or not, there still has to be a RN.

There has to be evidence of a RN yes. The actual physical note doesn't have to exist.

Once we realize there still has to be a Ransom Note, we have to then know he was going to turn in the original, or make a copy. So then to believe that he would make a copy of what he already made, starts to get far-fetched. Then we have to go back into his whole plan scheme… and it gets more convoluted.

Why is it far fetched? It's simple enough to make a copy. If he's smart he'll make a dozen copies so that what he hands police has more copy errors and is harder to compare to handwriting exemplars.

I just feel like we have to get so convoluted into what Act III of his plan would be, to believe he would believe that it would work that way.

You tell us to not speculate and go in circles about things that don’t add up and to just look at the whole picture….
But in order to imagine him having this as the original plan, we have to do just that – speculate the whole rest of his plan to see if it makes sense….

Don’t get me wrong, it’s 100% obvious that he is involved. I am just not so sure that he is the only one…..

You have a choice. Either the Rs worked in concert to have the police find both a RN and a body, which looks really incriminating, or JR worked alone, planned to get PR/BR out of the way, dump the body, finish the staging, etc.

What exactly he'd do with the note is speculative, but the fact remains we have a dead body and a RN in the house, and it seems unlikely that the plan was to find both as this completely destroys the kidnapping story.

 

[sandover]

Why JR decided to find the body, after his original plan went awry, is simple:

Linda Arndt gave him an opening; he knew it would be found at some point; carrying the body up allowed him to contaminate the crime scene.

 

[pistolina]

Do you really think John would have let Patsy make that call if he really wanted it made? He'd have called himself, for sure. She could barely get the words out. And by calling 911 instead of the FBI she allowed uniformed police to enter the home which was supposedly being monitored by the kidnappers. I don't care what story they ultimately agreed on, if John wanted the call made he'd have made it himself. And if they were in on it together that call would not have been made.

I disagree. For the reasons you stated above, PR was the perfect one to call police. It made her more believable. JR couldn’t have pulled that off. And if PR wasn’t in on it why would she call the police? According to the note that would insure that her daughter would be killed. What would be her reason to alert the neighborhood? PR did a great job of creating a buffer between herself and the crime. There is no way to convince me that she wasn’t in on it. And as a mother, if one child is missing there is no way I leave the other upstairs “sleeping”. I wouldn’t be able to let that child out of my sight much less send him away from the house.

If they actually wanted the cops to find the body, why hide it in the WC? Why write a RN? Why not just stage an intruder/killer scenario? Leave the body in her bed, open a door a crack to serve as the point of entry, then call the police.

They put the body in a place that they (the Rs) wouldn’t have logically looked for it. If she was upstairs in her bed molested and dead, one of them would have been arrested on the spot. IMO they wanted it to look like the intruder intended to leave the house with her but killed her instead. They didn’t have to offer the cops a reason why. How would they know what happened in the basement or what the intruder intended to do? If they didn’t want the body found, why did JR present it to them? Also who was the staging for, if not the cops?

I really think that the Rs thought – the cops would come, see the RN, search the house, find the body, and that would be the end. The cops would go on their merry way looking for an intruder. CSI and shows of the like were not around, they didn’t have any idea of police procedure or that the cops would instantly be suspicious of a RN and a body in the house. The Rs weren’t expert criminals. They were just lucky ones. They muddied the waters just enough for us to still be talking about this case all these years later.

 

[InstantProof]

Why JR decided to find the body, after his original plan went awry, is simple:

Linda Arndt gave him an opening; he knew it would be found at some point; carrying the body up allowed him to contaminate the crime scene.

If the cops found the body I think J&P would have been arrested, John finding it somehow worked to confuse people at the scene.
I always thought some or all of the staging to JBR was done while J went missing while everyone was at the house.

 

[pistolina]

snip

Also there are other indications causing us to doubt her involvement because no Patsy did it scenario can explain why a head wound couldn't have been explained as an accident, or why a middle class housewife would suddenly transform into Jack the Ripper, sexually violating her daughter's body and then strangling her with a garotte of all things, in order to cover up a head blow. Nor is it logical to assume she would cover for John if he'd assaulted and killed their daughter. The same with Burke, because again a head wound could have been explained as an accident and again why would she go to such bizarre extremes to cover it up?
QUOTE]

Again I disagree. What if PR caught JR in the act of molesting JBR and swung the flashlight to hit him and missed, hitting JBR instead. How would that be explained to the cops? Yes, it was an accident and she didn't mean to hit JBR but she did intend to hit JR, maybe even kill him. That story would have had both of the Rs in jail. Whatever happened that night, the molestation of JBR played a major part in the cover up. It is the only logical way I can see the staging occurring.

 

[sandover]

These theories where PR swings a flashlight and "misses" JR but hits JB are laughably melodramatic. They require a succession of absurd coincidences that are impossible to believe.

BUT -- let's assume that this happened. PR, in her own demented way, DEEPLY LOVED JB. I think she would have INSTANTLY called 911. This is a woman brought back from the brink of death from ovarian cancer. Doctors saved her life. There's no way she'd hit JB on the head and think, "Oh well, nothing can be done, let's finish her off and stage an intruder scenario!"

JR had a motive -- exposure as a sexual abuser of his own daughter -- and a plan that would have allowed him a strong possibility to get away with murder. This is quite simply the only scenario that makes sense.

 

[pistolina]

These theories where PR swings a flashlight and "misses" JR but hits JB are laughably melodramatic. They require a succession of absurd coincidences that are impossible to believe.

BUT -- let's assume that this happened. PR, in her own demented way, DEEPLY LOVED JB. I think she would have INSTANTLY called 911. This is a woman brought back from the brink of death from ovarian cancer. Doctors saved her life. There's no way she'd hit JB on the head and think, "Oh well, nothing can be done, let's finish her off and stage an intruder scenario!"

QUOTE]

I think PR thought she killed JBR or she would have called 911. Image was very important to PR. IMO I think that PR decided it was too late for JBR but she could still save her family image. After it happened she blamed JR. I see her anger in the staging and the note. It wasn’t JBR that she was trying to hurt it was JR.

 

[pistolina]

Why JR decided to find the body, after his original plan went awry, is simple:

Linda Arndt gave him an opening; he knew it would be found at some point; carrying the body up allowed him to contaminate the crime scene.

I guess that plan failed as well, since the only part of her body found to have fibers from JR were the crouch of her panties.

 

[sandover]

I guess that plan failed as well, since the only part of her body found to have fibers from JR were the crouch of her panties.

No, that plan didn't "fail" -- both the crime scene and the body were contaminated by JR's "discovering" JB and carrying her body upstairs, exposing it to others etc...

 

[sandover]

These theories where PR swings a flashlight and "misses" JR but hits JB are laughably melodramatic. They require a succession of absurd coincidences that are impossible to believe.

BUT -- let's assume that this happened. PR, in her own demented way, DEEPLY LOVED JB. I think she would have INSTANTLY called 911. This is a woman brought back from the brink of death from ovarian cancer. Doctors saved her life. There's no way she'd hit JB on the head and think, "Oh well, nothing can be done, let's finish her off and stage an intruder scenario!"

QUOTE]

I think PR thought she killed JBR or she would have called 911. Image was very important to PR. IMO I think that PR decided it was too late for JBR but she could still save her family image. After it happened she blamed JR. I see her anger in the staging and the note. It wasn’t JBR that she was trying to hurt it was JR.

Saying "image was very important to PR" is the kind of irrelevant psychological profiling that makes folks go round and round with this case. Yes image was important to PR but that is not "evidence" of anything. The only evidence we have points to JR.

 

[dodie20]

These theories where PR swings a flashlight and "misses" JR but hits JB are laughably melodramatic. They require a succession of absurd coincidences that are impossible to believe.

BUT -- let's assume that this happened. PR, in her own demented way, DEEPLY LOVED JB. I think she would have INSTANTLY called 911. This is a woman brought back from the brink of death from ovarian cancer. Doctors saved her life. There's no way she'd hit JB on the head and think, "Oh well, nothing can be done, let's finish her off and stage an intruder scenario!"

JR had a motive -- exposure as a sexual abuser of his own daughter -- and a plan that would have allowed him a strong possibility to get away with murder. This is quite simply the only scenario that makes sense.

I never did find the theory of PR hitting JB, while aiming for JR believable. Mainly because these 2 Then joined forces? If PR had missed him, where did her anger go? IMO, a scenario like that, would have made her more determined to kill him. moo

 

[SyraKelly]

Spend some time with DocG's JDI theory. Actually, the killer's mind was quite rational: my daughter is going to tell on me for sexually abusing her, so I have to kill her and make it look like someone else did it. I also have to get rid of the body, so law enforcement can't be notified; therefore, I need to write a ransom note that gets my wife and son out of the house and gives me a day to dispose of the body before involving police.

JR was smart and would have figured out that that's what he had to do within minutes (assuming his decision to kill JB was spontaneous or just barely "planned" before being carried out). He then carried out his plan which worked even when a major component went wrong!

To make this a PDI theory, you have to bend over backwards to find any sense in what PR or the Ramseys as a couple did. So to justify this people say, "She was in a panic, she wasn't being rational." That nothing makes sense is seen as evidence of the truth of a theory that makes no sense.

I find this motive unbelievable & I am trying to figure out how to post why-b/c I don't want to offend or disrespect anyone who is an abuse victim.I am just trying to figure out what happened that night like everyone else..
JB was 6yrs old and from what I have read over the yrs-MOST sexual abuse victims don't tell about the abuse for yrs.I would find it very hard to believe she (6 yrs old) told a grown adult man-esp-her father...I am telling mom what you are doing to me & John got scared & had to kill her for fear of getting caught..Most young victims tell on the abuser when the abuser is not around,they don't tell the abuser to their faces that they are going to tell on them.
This was Christmas Day Night-If John went to her room that night-got her up,fed her pineapple,took her downstairs to abuse her-What do you think he is saying to her all this time.I can hear him telling her-OH JB-I told Secret Santa all about you & he is going to make a very special trip to MI just for you.She would be all excited & giggling about getting more presents..all of this while he is abusing her-she is not fighting him for fear-he will tell secret Santa she is being bad- she just plays along like he tells her..I don't see her screaming or fighting him & saying-I am telling on you! I see John using Secret Santa as a bribe to get what he wants & her going along in a complying way and then back to bed!! KWIM
Something else happened that night to scare her enough to scream-yes-I believe the neighbor heard the scream.Now I can see a scerario where JB is saying to B-I am telling Mom on you & he does something to make her scream & he hits her!!
I am see more of a motive for B than John on THIS NIGHT!!


I am sorry if I offended anyone with my post-it was not my intention to do so!!

 

[BOESP]

Saying "image was very important to PR" is the kind of irrelevant psychological profiling that makes folks go round and round with this case. Yes image was important to PR but that is not "evidence" of anything. The only evidence we have points to JR.

I would say behavior is evidence. There is a branch of psychology devoted to behavioral evidence and it is part of the foundation of criminal profiling. It can't be evaluated like mathematics, e.g. one and one always equals two, but if enough data is gathered a statistical model can give great insight.

 

[redheadedgal]

I am sorry if I offended anyone with my post-it was not my intention to do so!!

i see nothing offensive in your post. it rocks imo!