IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #10

[cluciano63]

Without knowing who else was out and about, up to no good at the time they went missing, I can't see how it matters if it was 12:11, 12:15 or ten minutes later. I mean, there doesn't seem to be anything useful on tape, that we know of. LE appears to be stuck, as in no arrests, no named suspects or POI's, and they know more, presumably than we do.

I just can't see a way out of this standstill of a case, like so many others, unless someone confesses. And that very seldom happens in cases involving children. No one is coming forward for the reward, apparently.

I hate being so negative, but these vanishings happen time after time, and the worst part is never knowing if the children were taken by random sex predators, or were harmed and hidden by one of their own parents or relatives.

 

[cckeepsakes]

I'm going to question your first fact. Sorry. I know there is still debate over whether there is one video or two. But, before the more zoomed out video (the 12:11 version) was released, everyone was saying the last sighting was at 12:15, per the more zoomed in video. Did that first video have a time stamp on it? Did anyone actually SEE a time stamp on EITHER video?

(I'm just wondering if maybe the girls were doing laps around that block, and passed the camera at 12:11 AND 12:15)

And was the 3:58 confirmed somewhere official from LE as the find by the fire fighter? I still haven't been able to find that.

I keep thinking that was when the other LE types showed up.

 

[Jules71]

And was the 3:58 confirmed somewhere official from LE as the find by the fire fighter? I still haven't been able to find that.

I keep thinking that was when the other LE types showed up.

Abben stated in a press conference that the bikes were found at 3:58.

So....
Facts:
1. Last seen on cctv between 12:11 (time stamp) and 12:19 (8 minutes slow)
2. Bikes found at 3:58
3. Elizabeth and Lyric are missing

 

[GGE]

I'm going to question your first fact. Sorry. I know there is still debate over whether there is one video or two. But, before the more zoomed out video (the 12:11 version) was released, everyone was saying the last sighting was at 12:15, per the more zoomed in video. Did that first video have a time stamp on it? Did anyone actually SEE a time stamp on EITHER video?

(I'm just wondering if maybe the girls were doing laps around that block, and passed the camera at 12:11 AND 12:15)

Hopefully this can help at least part of the confusion --

I took screenshots from the first video released (said to be timestamped 12:13) and then from the second video released (said to be timestamped 12:11, with the 8 minute variable, by Mr. Pahl, manager of the auction house where the camera was located - the building is connected to Ledermans) -- the screenshots are attached - They look to me to be from the exact same camera, which has led me to believe for awhile now that they did, indeed, circle the building.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Abben stated in a press conference that the bikes were found at 3:58.

So....
Facts:
1. Last seen on cctv between 12:11 (time stamp) and 12:19 (8 minutes slow)
2. Bikes found at 3:58
3. Elizabeth and Lyric are missing

Can we add these?
4. 7/12 - Dan Morrissey attends pre-trial hearing and rejects plea deal
5. Somewhere around 7/9 - Lyric is late coming home and her parents call the police. She was with her Cousin K___.

I know not everyone agrees, but I strongly believe those are critically relevant facts.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

Abben stated in a press conference that the bikes were found at 3:58.

So....
Facts:
1. Last seen on cctv between 12:11 (time stamp) and 12:19 (8 minutes slow)
2. Bikes found at 3:58
3. Elizabeth and Lyric are missing

I wouldn't expect much more info from LE. They are EXTREMELY tight with info-sometimes too tight IMO. Even with really, really cold cases they won't release anything. We had 2 elderly ladies murdered in their homes in Des Moines about 5 years ago- their stories just went away quietly, and have never been solved. I just hope and pray that isn't what will happen here.

 

[BethInAK]

I'm happy for you that you could do that. Not everyone can though.

No, not everyone can, but I was responding to a sweeping "never" statement.

 

[Jules71]

Welcome MomtoCrysChris! You might want to remove the minor's name in your post as it violates TOS. Thanks!

:welcome4:

 

[JaimeInLA]

Hopefully this can help at least part of the confusion --

I took screenshots from the first video released (said to be timestamped 12:13) and then from the second video released (said to be timestamped 12:11, with the 8 minute variable, by Mr. Pahl, manager of the auction house where the camera was located - the building is connected to Ledermans) -- the screenshots are attached - They look to me to be from the exact same camera, which has led me to believe for awhile now that they did, indeed, circle the building.

Ok, this is probably going to be super confusing, but those screen caps are not from the actual security video itself, they are from media reports about the security footage. I agree, they do look to be the same camera. But the media camera crew that shot that footage of the security camera could have just mistakenly shot the wrong security camera. KWIM? There could be two security cameras very close to each other on the back of that little strip mall, but when KWWL or whoever went out to report on the first/Lederman's footage, they took video of the camera on Lederman's. Then when KGAN went out to cover the Auction House footage, they too shot video of the camera on Lederman's, not the one on the Auction house.

I'm afraid that unless a local goes to tell us how many cameras are on the back of that building, we won't know for sure. (I don't even really think it matters that much. Just trying to figure it out!)

 

[Jax49]

I'm going to question your first fact. Sorry. I know there is still debate over whether there is one video or two. But, before the more zoomed out video (the 12:11 version) was released, everyone was saying the last sighting was at 12:15, per the more zoomed in video. Did that first video have a time stamp on it? Did anyone actually SEE a time stamp on EITHER video?

(I'm just wondering if maybe the girls were doing laps around that block, and passed the camera at 12:11 AND 12:15)

I saw a 12:11 time stamp on the "2nd" video, in the interview with Mr. Pahl. I'm now 95% convinced that there is only one video.

Have any locals checked out the building to see if there are two cameras? Sorry if this has been asked and answered.

 

[GGE]

Ok, this is probably going to be super confusing, but those screen caps are not from the actual security video itself, they are from media reports about the security footage. I agree, they do look to be the same camera. But the media camera crew that shot that footage of the security camera could have just mistakenly shot the wrong security camera. KWIM? There could be two security cameras very close to each other on the back of that little strip mall, but when KWWL or whoever went out to report on the first/Lederman's footage, they took video of the camera on Lederman's. Then when KGAN went out to cover the Auction House footage, they too shot video of the camera on Lederman's, not the one on the Auction house.

I'm afraid that unless a local goes to tell us how many cameras are on the back of that building, we won't know for sure. (I don't even really think it matters that much. Just trying to figure it out!)

Thank you for typing all that out so nicely. I had thought of that, but didn't want to even take the time to type all of it out, and it wouldn't have sounded so articulate if I had. :seeya:

 

[Bootsctr]

I am a first time poster, but read here all the time because you have all the latest info. I have something I want to bring up and ask what everyone thinks, even though it has been discussed previously. I just keep coming back to the prior disappearance of Lyric.

:greetings: I'm new too, but I also think the prior disappearance Lyric could be related to Elizabeth and Lyric's disappearance.

 

[cckeepsakes]

Hopefully this can help at least part of the confusion --

I took screenshots from the first video released (said to be timestamped 12:13) and then from the second video released (said to be timestamped 12:11, with the 8 minute variable, by Mr. Pahl, manager of the auction house where the camera was located - the building is connected to Ledermans) -- the screenshots are attached - They look to me to be from the exact same camera, which has led me to believe for awhile now that they did, indeed, circle the building.

I find that interesting because they clearly have tried to make the impression that they passed by two separate cameras once NOT one camera multiple times.

Could that really be confusion or is that intentional obfuscation? I don't know why you wouldn't show the loop video unless there is something on that they don't want out that they know.

 

[Jules71]

Does anyone know for sure if Lyric was with KB or HB when she was gone too long 4 days before? Are KB and HB two different people? The transcript said Tammy's daughter "K". Just wondering if they got her name wrong. Anyone know?

 

[JaimeInLA]

My thoughts: Misty clearly says the two girls (in prior situation) went to the park, they were gone too long so they went to look for them. The girls WERE NOT at the park, so they called the police. Then up come the girls. There has never been any explanation given that I have found that says where the girls were during the time they were missing. Here Misty just blows it off as though the family overreacted, that there is no connection between these two events. How does Misty know that the two girls had not gone off in a vehicle with someone and that is why they were not at the park? And then they got dropped off and came home? I am really starting to believe the answer may lie with the other cousin, Tammy’s daughter K (not sure of spelling).

First, welcome!

Second, I think this is a REALLY important point. If I could question just one person in this case, it would be Tammy's 11-year old daughter. To solve this crime, we need to know where they were the first time Lyric was "late."

Third, it should be noted that in that JVM interview, when Dan says, "they went to a certain destination..." Misty gives him a firm elbow in the ribs. She then butts in and tells the story her way, about the park. That, to me, is a very telling interview to watch on video.

 

[Ollipop]

Ok, this is probably going to be super confusing, but those screen caps are not from the actual security video itself, they are from media reports about the security footage. I agree, they do look to be the same camera. But the media camera crew that shot that footage of the security camera could have just mistakenly shot the wrong security camera. KWIM? There could be two security cameras very close to each other on the back of that little strip mall, but when KWWL or whoever went out to report on the first/Lederman's footage, they took video of the camera on Lederman's. Then when KGAN went out to cover the Auction House footage, they too shot video of the camera on Lederman's, not the one on the Auction house.

I'm afraid that unless a local goes to tell us how many cameras are on the back of that building, we won't know for sure. (I don't even really think it matters that much. Just trying to figure it out!)

I think I can solve this. I'll try to swing by on my way to dinner in a bit (anniversary, woo hoo!). The only issue is it will require driving right past the Collins home, which feels like gawking. Of course, we know the Collins', so I doubt it'll be a problem, but we won't be back to report what we see for a couple hours.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Does anyone know for sure if Lyric was with KB or HB when she was gone too long 4 days before? Are KB and HB two different people? The transcript said Tammy's daughter "K". Just wondering if they got her name wrong. Anyone know?

Ok, WEIRD. I thought KB and HB were definitely 2 different people, but now that you say that, it could be a mistake in the transcript because their names rhyme, and who would name their 2 daughters with names that are SO close to one another?!

 

[JaimeInLA]

I think I can solve this. I'll try to swing by on my way to dinner in a bit (anniversary, woo hoo!). The only issue is it will require driving right past the Collins home, which feels like gawking. Of course, we know the Collins', so I doubt it'll be a problem, but we won't be back to report what we see for a couple hours.

Thanks, Ollipop! You're the BEST!!! Happy Anniversary!

 

[FrayedKnot]

I really think these girls were used to being unsupervised and rode all over Evansdale. I also believe when questioned, the family was alittle embarrassed to admit that.

ITA. I think that is why Gma kept her plans with aunt Tammy. She wasn't all that worried, figured the girls would turn up and she would give them an earful when they did.

If the girls were given a fairly loose rein, Gma probably was more annoyed than worried. She couldn't have known.

 

[Jules71]

Ok, WEIRD. I thought KB and HB were definitely 2 different people, but now that you say that, it could be a mistake in the transcript because their names rhyme, and who would name their 2 daughters with names that are SO close to one another?!

The reason I ask is because Lyric posted this on her FB and I didn't think HB was a "little cousin".

I dont think myhh lil cousin should b using foual language. lol h---- b-----
Share · July 2, 2011 at 4:38pm ·