IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #10

[CHERIE.T]

BSL in the Mickey Shunick case was also a regular church goer. :what:
Just observing, not judging......

Good point. He's a sexual predator woman killer.
Church did him no good since he's killed at least 2 women in 13 years.
:moo:.

 

[GrainneDhu]

WHOA! Good catch! As I'm not anywhere near Iowa, is it unusual to see people driving around with boats on trailers?

Not terribly unusual.

There are plenty of places in Iowa to go fishing, etc.

 

[GrainneDhu]

She did not suddenly start spewing Jesus. Her pastor posted on the church's FB page that she, Lyric, and JW had been regular attendants at the church for the past year. I know she was in jail some during that time but he posted she had been attending for a year.

Your opinion does not offend me at all but I myself will not fault anyone for holding on to their faith during a crisis, regardless to the nature of the crisis, or to the person's own righteousness, or lack thereof.

I know a good bit about the theology of the churches associated with their church and with associated ministries and pastors/teachers, so I have a good understanding of where they are "coming from". I do not attend a Vineyard church and I can't whole-heartedly endorse their doctrines but they don't preach their Christianity, they preach Jesus. The terminology that she uses, plus all of the other family members, including things I've heard Dan say, come from the type of church they attend.

No snarkiness intended at all.

BBM

Actually, MCM was in a halfway house, not in prison.

 

[GrainneDhu]

The video shows them going west, but that is near the Collins' home and if they did take a left and shoot down to the lake, there are many side streets they could choose and enter the trail from either direction. I don't think the direction they were seen in the video can tell us anything once they got near the lake. I was curious which direction the bikes were facing when found because that would tell us which way they came from and were headed immediately before the bikes were abandoned (assuming they were there with their bikes at all)

I realise that the girls could get to the lake going either direction on Brovan.

I thought that Chief Deputy Abben would realise it as well, seeing as he lives in the area.

So when he said the girls were riding in the opposite direction from the lake in the video, that seemed odd to me. How can one ride in an opposite direction going west to a spot that is south?

And then I realised, "wait. Abben knows the area and he saw the bikes. Maybe he let slip a bit of information when he said that because he knew the bikes were pointed west when they found."

Of course the girls could have cut back the other direction on Lafayette and picked up the trail to the east. I'm sure that if he'd thought about it for a second, Abben would realise that also.

For some reason, as he was speaking, he said they were going the opposite way. It's not a sensible thing to say and yet he seems like a sensible man.

Maybe there is nothing to it. But maybe it means that Abben saw the bikes pointing west.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Okay, so that is my latest theory. Suppose Dan narced out a female, one that he was having a relationship with? Would she be angry enough to get him where it would hurt the most, through his children? Especially if the woman was jealous of his wife and angry at her too.

It is kind of hard for me to see drug cartels or druglords, going after a man's kids. But a spurned lover? Yes, that is possible. Especially if she were narced out and going to do time in prison, while he hoped to spend time at home with his family.

That theory i could definately see happening Katydid,if the girls disappearance was to do with him being a grass.
I dont see anyone one,even a high up supplier/dealer going for the kids.
I mean what would the dealers do with the kids,"hey Dan,weve kidnapped the kids because youre a grass",then what do they do?,blackmail him for cash as compensation for grassing?(you gotta know LE would become involved).Or do they take the kids and murder them as payback?,for that to happen they have to make sure Dan knows about it for it to be effective,and if that was the case then what would stop Dan from going to LE with the kidnappers names?..
In my experience you go directly for the grass,you either start messing with them or they get set up for a hiding(at the very least)..

As for 'Drug Lords',never heard it being used outside of joking or talking about 80s columbians lol and ive met few dealers from small time mates supplying mates to importers.(and no i dont do drugs,i just know peoples)...


Again jus my opinion.

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM, this is a transcribed interview, yes? Can someone who has watched this tell me how she says "nobody"? Does she pronounce in nobuddy or no body?

I do not know, sorry.

I do want to say that if another Iowan said that to me, I would take it to mean "we did not find anyone who could be of assistance to us" rather than the literal "we didn't find one single person."

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM, this is a transcribed interview, yes? Can someone who has watched this tell me how she says "nobody"? Does she pronounce in nobuddy or no body?

On further thought...

Iowans often pronounce the word "nobody" as "nob'dy" with a very slight, short U sound between the b and d.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

LOL Katydid,i meant the theory of the jealous woman etc,i went off on one sorry,its the sorta thing my ex would have done before i got custody of my kids>>>

 

[ScotsPaddy]

BBM

This is good info.

But I can't help it, when I envision LE turning on someone's cell phone, I immediately think "don't they get tired of watching the insides of pockets?"

Maybe because my husband found over 250 pocket photos on my cell phone a couple weeks ago...

Yup GrainneDhu ive found many a picture of the inside of my pocket on my phone.

Also wanted to add that there is an App to allow you to do similar and stream pictures from youre phone camera to youre pc/laptop etc..

 

[GrainneDhu]

(still catching up so sorry if this is outdated)

Sailorsgirl I'm so glad your child is OK. I hope that's right, seems so from what you've posted.

Regarding your post... I know! Earlier there was a statement about forgiving the perp even if the child was harmed and that one sort of made sense to me, anything to get the child back alive and deal with the rest of the mess later. But to say "alive or dead" scares me.

Once in my life I was the child who was in the "unkown if she'll live or die" category (disease not foul play) for a couple of years and I can remember the agony it put my parents and brother through. It was awful for them not knowing what was going to happen or how sick I truly was, but at least they knew I was in the hands of a whole lot of caring docs and nurses. I can't imagine if they didn't even know at least where I was. Awful.

It makes me sick to even think of anything worse happening to these girls. Maybe, maybe the parents are thinking IF the worst has happened they'd rather at least know what happened vs. not? I started to type out my next thought but it made me sick so I'll just say, sometimes there's that "fate worse than death" and maybe the parents are thinking along those lines as well since so much time has passed?

I have no idea... throwing random thoughts out at this point.

I think a lot of Iowans are still aware of the Johnny Gosch and Eugene Martin disappearances. And have seen Noreen Gosch's agony.

I think that if the choices for knowledge are between "dead" or "dead and don't know it," most people (not just Iowans) would pick knowing "dead."

In my own family, my maternal grandfather was (probably) a posthumous child. He was born after his father went off to WWI. His father went missing in action and his remains were never identified.

Logic says that he died. WWI was a literal bloodbath and there are still hundreds of thousands of unidentified bodies (I'm not exaggerating). My great grandfather was probably just one of them.

But my great grandmother never gave up some small hope. She never re-married and every time she moved, she made sure to leave a forwarding address from her address when she was married. After the British Post started imposing a (very small) fee for forwarding addresses more than a year old, she paid that fee.

And my grandfather did as well. Some small part of him kept hoping that maybe he'd get a letter from a very old man who needed to clear up some business from his youth.

It would have been so much better for both of them if they had known "yes, he died during the battle of <somewhere in France> and his remains were buried there."

I'm sure that the families would prefer tha the girls be alive. But if they are dead, I'm sure the families want to know that.

 

[Pensfan]

Campgrounds that allow monthly rentals can have transient spooks living there are on permanent basis in substandard conditions. I wonder how thoroughly Deerwood Park Camp Ground kept records of who was living there. That park is large with 118 camp sites.
http://www.rvparking.com/ia/evansdale/deerwood-park

This is a really good article: Investigative Case Management for Missing Children Homicides
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/201253NCJRS.pdf
(Yes, I realize Elizabeth and Lyric may be alive.)

Charts from the article

 

[Pensfan]

More charts from above article:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Very good scenario. It is physically possible.

My question is this. Is there a good enough reason for a perp to hunker down there? Are there a lot of unsupervised kids going through there?

it just seems so improbable that the girls would be nabbed within minutes of arriving at the lake. I guess it is what it is.

I just keep going back to the coincidence of Lyric's fathers court issues. Having all of that happening simultaneously is so hard for me to ignore.

The bike trail sounds like it gets a fair amount of traffic according to Ollipop. He says that when he walks it with his children, they pass 3 or 4 people in the 45 minutes it takes them.

For a perp who wants to grab someone, that's just about perfect. Enough use to be sure someone will come along, not so much use that there is likely to be a witness to an abduction.

I think it's more likely that the perp was looking for an adolescent girl (Lyric) rather than a prepubescent girl (Elizabeth). Or had a very wide range in victim age, which is somewhat unusual but it has happened many times before. For example, BTK's victims ranged in age from 9 to 62. The 9 year old, Joseph Otero, was probably incidental to the main victim, who was his 13 year old sister Josephine Otero. However the 62 year old, Dolores Evans, was the single victim when he killed her.

The reason I think the girls were grabbed as soon as they were at the lake is because no information has been released that places them there other than the bicycles and purse. Of course, LE could have witnesses that have not been revealed to the public.

According to his mother, DC's whereabouts were known for the entire day before the girls disappeared. Sure, he could have set up some sort of grab but if so, he's really good at faking grief and stress.

If someone wanted to threaten him, dropping the plea bargain would be to their advantage. But the girls disappeared after DC dropped the plea bargain.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I'm just catching up after being a thread behind, a couple of comments I wanted to make.

1. I don't have an issue with the way MCM talks, behaves, etc I'm pretty sure I'd be making inappropriate jokes because that's what I do when I'm stressed and nervous. I have laughed at a funeral, not my proudest moment. But I just get awkward and nervous and do the absolutely last thing expected.

2. Heather's shoes are super cute and I can't believe she got flack for looking nice. If my child ever goes missing, expect me in 5 inch heels at all times.

Hey, it would make you taller so you could see more!

 

[cindersoot]

Do you think the public will ever be updated on anything? It's just so quiet and feels like nothing is being done.

 

[TxLady2]

I can't pretend to understand what it's like to have a missing child ... however, I do know exactly what it's like to have a potentially dying child. It just wouldn't dawn on me to pray to Jesus that it's up to him to decide whether my child lives or dies. I prayed that my child would live.

We do, but we say things like "If it's your will, Lord..." We're taught that everything that happens is through God's will and we should pray for ourselves to accept His will... not to change it.
Hope that makes sense.

 

[CocoChanel]

We do, but we say things like "If it's your will, Lord..." We're taught that everything that happens is through God's will and we should pray for ourselves to accept His will... not to change it.
Hope that makes sense.

I agree.
Faith and beliefs are so personal, and everyone has their own individual belief system. IMHO, in addition to prayer for acceptance (taught to us in the Garden of Gethsemane) we can also pray for strength and courage as we face the ordeal, wisdom for those directly invovled in our child's welfare, and even thanksgiving for the support we are given from others. I experienced all of this when we nearly lost my then 20-year-old to toxic shock syndrome. I am so grateful it was only mere days when his life was in balance, and thankful that he survived. When my mother was in hospice care, I learned that the prayers for healing took on a different meaning. Instead of no hope, we had a new kind of hope for a good death, and the prayers became those for emotional and psychological healing rather than physical healing. It opened my eyes to the many levels of prayer and has deeply and positively affected my everyday life, especially in the face of challenges.

 

[HeavenLeigh]

On March 2nd and March 6th she posted a religios reference on FB. The March 6th posted was related to all men taking responsibility for the families they created.

You are aware that dates can be changed on Facebook for each post, right? You can add a new post today (or whenever) & backdate it & it will look like you posted it for whatever date you choose.

Info here:
https://www.facebook.com/help?faq=301591769889792


I don't recall seeing any of the post referencing religion the first time I saw her "new" Facebook. Her wall has been edited. She has an older one besides this "newer".

 

[tlcya]

http://thegazette.com/2012/07/30/missing-girls-birthday-is-tuesday/

Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, were last seen about 12:15 p.m. on July 13 in downtown Evansdale. Their bikes and a purse were found along a trail on the southeast corner of Meyers Lake at about 4 p.m..

Tuesday is Collin&#8217;s 9th birthday.

http://www.kwqc.com/story/19153022/family-celebrates-missing-iowa-girls-birthday

A community Cupcakes of Hope event is being held Tuesday from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. at Prince of Peace Church at 4031 Lafayette Rd. in Evansdale. Poyner Elementary organized the event to say thank you to all the people that have donated supplies and time to the search.

Thoughts of Elizabeth on her Birthday If she is indeed still alive what a horrible way to spend your birthday. Likely terrified, possibly hurt.

Where are these girls?

 

[Unscripted]

Do you think the public will ever be updated on anything? It's just so quiet and feels like nothing is being done.

Emily Christensen, reporter for The Courier in Waterloo, IA tweeted this morning that she "Talked to Capt. Abben Fri. He said they hadn't reduced the # of investigators. No word on official leads."

https://twitter.com/CourierEmilyC

Twitter #evansdalesearch