IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[otto]

Out of everything released about the investigation, this is the main thing that doesn't make sense to me and it is why I believe there is some family connection to the disappearance! Remember earlier in the disappearance, several family members said that the girls would never go to the lake? More information has been released (by family and others) indicating that they HAD been to the lake previously.

I live in an area with river access, bike paths, small lakes, and trails within 1 mile of my house. If my daughters had "never been there", or even had been there on occasion, those areas would certainly not be the locations I would look for them within the first 2 hrs of disappearing...AND...if for some reason I THOUGHT they would go to a lake, bike path or river, I would be more focused on the areas closest to my home.

I am convinced, based on my experiences with briefly "missing" my daughters at that age, that someone in this family knew those girls would be there or wanted it to appear that they had been there!

Solving the WHY and HOW will lead to finding the girls!

I think you make a good point. There was one summer when my son fell in with some unsupervised children. He was not honest with me about what he was doing and when he was late, I didn't even know where to begin looking for him. Looking at the location of the Collin's home, it would make more sense to look along the river, which is only a couple of blocks from the house. The decision to look at the lake suggests that someone knew that it was a likely spot.

It could be as simple as one of the relatives knowing that the girls were sneaking off to the lake without Grandma knowing what they were up to, and keeping the secret. Some adults want to be a child's friend, rather than an authoritarian figure, so they keep children's secrets. The person that first suggested the lake is probably the relative that kept the secret from Grandma and the parents. That doesn't mean that the relative was involved with the abduction, only that the relative did not enforce the rules and, as a result, the children were vulnerable to abduction.

 

[RNER]

BBM...
When you have looked at every other place except for the lake wouldn't you then go to the lake? Evansdale is a small place from what I see by looking at a map.
Not to sound disrespectful but what about the lie detector tests? The entire family took them.

Grandma was quoted as saying within an hour or so of the girls last being seen (until Aunt T got there), she searched various areas in her car, including Meyers Lake "area"(did not report bike trail or Lake itself). How thorough of a search could she do IN HER CAR and WITHIN an HOUR? How much of Meyers Lake/bike path is visible from the road?

I also live in a small place, but I have neighbors and businesses, side streets, etc that I would drive through during the FIRST Hour, then maybe work my way out FROM my house UNLESS I had reason to beleve they were at the lake, bikepath. I don't know why the reason they would be at the lake has been kept so "secretive".

Not to be disrespectful, but what about the lie detectors? Yes, the family took them....we haven't heard of any "official" results or the questions that were asked.

 

[dnasmom9]

I live approx. 6 miles from this location. I am signed up through police department to receive important news. Not saying this has anything to do with girls, but there was someone on here that was wishing to keep track of all suspicious activities in surrounding areas. I am approx. 1 hour 15 min from waterloo. Here is the link. https://local.nixle.com/alert/4867314/?sub_id=346495

 

[ROM828]

I think so too ... probably 2-3 blocks from the entrance to the park, and it could have happened really fast. I agree ... they could have ridden their bikes on one of the side streets rather than taking the trail.

If one of the parents, like perhaps Aunt Tammie, knew that the girls were riding all over the place without permission, there must be a lot of guilt.

IMO...I don't think the bikes were staged. I know ppl that kidnap children take more risks than the avg. person, but considering the visibility of the area and the time of day, I don't think someone took them and then dumped the bikes.

However, IF the bikes were staged, I believe the girls were VERY close to the spot where their bikes were found. That way it wouldn't have to take a lot of time/thought to do it. IMO

I also think staging the bikes would have been something that would need to be premeditated. Given the quickness of the disappearance and random bike ride I don't see that happening. I see the perp being more opportunistic at best.

 

[shefner]

Just a couple observations because I don't have much to add at this point:

Don't you guys think its amazing how quickly people are abducted? Not just little kids either. Look at Holly Bobo's case. Her brother actually saw her walking into the woods with her abductor...and LE was there within minutes. Still, she has not been found. Its completely maddening.

Second, the positive side of this case is that LE is still receiving lots of tips. Even though most of them are totally fruitless, at least they are getting attention and people are taking the time to call.

 

[ROM828]

Does anyone know if there are cases where a perp using the exact same vehicle to abduct multiple people?

I'm curious because we see reports of white vans or green cars......I would think that someone who can take 2 children and not be caught would be smart enough to know NOT to use the same vehicle. I wonder if ppl are barking up the wrong tree??

 

[lishac23]

Couple things I thought of this weekend (kids don't allow sluething during THEIR time...lol)

Not sure if its been mentioned. Did my best to catch up...but if LE has made a public request for info regarding a paddleboat/peddleboat. I'm wondering if witnesses at the lake mentioned the boat....and whom ever was on it, is the only person/persons that are not accounted for/interviewed. Are these types of boats available for rental at the lake? Or would someone have to own their own?

 

[threecrazykids]

Just a couple observations because I don't have much to add at this point:

Don't you guys think its amazing how quickly people are abducted? Not just little kids either. Look at Holly Bobo's case. Her brother actually saw her walking into the woods with her abductor...and LE was there within minutes. Still, she has not been found. Its completely maddening.

Second, the positive side of this case is that LE is still receiving lots of tips. Even though most of them are totally fruitless, at least they are getting attention and people are taking the time to call.

BBM

I agree...this whole case is just baffling to me. I honestly never thought (especially with 2 girls!!) that they would still be missing. I know LE does everything they possibly can...but cases like this make me wonder how many more perps out there go "hmmm...that seems to have worked for that perp maybe I should try something similar":waitasec:

Very scary how fast it happens.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I'm thinking the "guy in the paddleboat" came from the same source as the "2.15 jogger".

:moo:

 

[otto]

IMO...I don't think the bikes were staged. I know ppl that kidnap children take more risks than the avg. person, but considering the visibility of the area and the time of day, I don't think someone took them and then dumped the bikes.

However, IF the bikes were staged, I believe the girls were VERY close to the spot where their bikes were found. That way it wouldn't have to take a lot of time/thought to do it. IMO

I also think staging the bikes would have been something that would need to be premeditated. Given the quickness of the disappearance and random bike ride I don't see that happening. I see the perp being opportunistic at best.

I'm open to Grandma's theory about the girls and their bikes being grabbed at an intersection on the way to the park by two perps. The girls could have been subdued by one perp while the other drove to the Sewer Life Station Road ... which turns into Maiden Lane. It would take minutes to be hidden by the trees, where one perp could watch the girls while the other, under the cover of trees/fence/shrubs, could walk along the water side of the fence, put the bikes through the gate and return to the vehicle. That act alone - leaving the bikes at the gate - delayed the investigation as an abduction for at least a week. It suggests a local person or someone familiar with the area and a very devious plan. The girls could be anywhere by now.

I see parallels with the Victoria Stafford case. When she disappeared, people first looked at the family, then their drug use, then suggested that she was abducted for a drug debt, then looked at nearby empty or transient houses ... it seems like a replay with this case. Ultimately, Victoria was abducted quickly in broad daylight near her school by a couple that had no connection to her family. They drove her to a secluded area a couple of hours away, assaulted her, murdered her, covered their tracks and acted as though nothing had happened. It took a few months before it was solved and the remains were located.

 

[ROM828]

I'm open to Grandma's theory about the girls and their bikes being grabbed at an intersection on the way to the park by two perps. The girls could have been subdued by one perp while the other drove to the Sewer Life Station Road ... which turns into Maiden Lane. It would take minutes to be hidden by the trees, where one perp could watch the girls while the other, under the cover of trees/fence/shrubs, could walk along the water side of the fence, put the bikes through the gate and return to the vehicle. That act alone - leaving the bikes at the gate - delayed the investigation as an abduction for at least a week. It suggests a local person or someone familiar with the area and a very devious plan. The girls could be anywhere by now.

I see parallels with the Victoria Stafford case. When she disappeared, people first looked at the family, then their drug use, then suggested that she was abducted for a drug debt, then looked at nearby empty or transient houses ... it seems like a replay with this case. Ultimately, Victoria was abducted quickly in broad daylight near her school by a couple that had no connection to her family. They drove her to a secluded area a couple of hours away, assaulted her, murdered her, covered their tracks and acted as though nothing had happened. It took a few months before it was solved and the remains were located.

If they were abducted and then driven to the lake, it would have to be (IMO) someone familiar with the area. Otherwise someone who was an "out of towner" wouldn't spend precious time looking for a good spot to dump the bikes.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Does anyone know if there are cases where a perp using the exact same vehicle to abduct multiple people?

I'm curious because we see reports of white vans or green cars......I would think that someone who can take 2 children and not be caught would be smart enough to know NOT to use the same vehicle. I wonder if ppl are barking up the wrong tree??

MOO, but I definitely think people are barking up the wrong tree with all the white van stuff. I mean, come on, if you were really running a highly illegal and despicable child trafficking/ ring, you wouldn't have uniforms and a company car! People are connecting all these white van abduction attempts all over the country and saying it is a ring of people working together. Any decent criminal enterprise would make sure their cars look as different as possible - not identical! Heck, why not just paint "Kiddie Abductors" on the side if they are all going to look the same?!

 

[song22]

Couple things I thought of this weekend (kids don't allow sluething during THEIR time...lol)

Not sure if its been mentioned. Did my best to catch up...but if LE has made a public request for info regarding a paddleboat/peddleboat. I'm wondering if witnesses at the lake mentioned the boat....and whom ever was on it, is the only person/persons that are not accounted for/interviewed. Are these types of boats available for rental at the lake? Or would someone have to own their own?

From what I recall someone owned a paddleboat and was away for the weekend. When they returned they found the paddleboat had been used. I believe the request from LE to speak to the person on the paddleboat was directed at whoever had borrowed it. Is that right? I will try to find a link.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I'm open to Grandma's theory about the girls and their bikes being grabbed at an intersection on the way to the park by two perps. The girls could have been subdued by one perp while the other drove to the Sewer Life Station Road ... which turns into Maiden Lane. It would take minutes to be hidden by the trees, where one perp could watch the girls while the other, under the cover of trees/fence/shrubs, could walk along the water side of the fence, put the bikes through the gate and return to the vehicle. That act alone - leaving the bikes at the gate - delayed the investigation as an abduction for at least a week. It suggests a local person or someone familiar with the area and a very devious plan. The girls could be anywhere by now.

I see parallels with the Victoria Stafford case. When she disappeared, people first looked at the family, then their drug use, then suggested that she was abducted for a drug debt, then looked at nearby empty or transient houses ... it seems like a replay with this case. Ultimately, Victoria was abducted quickly in broad daylight near her school by a couple that had no connection to her family. They drove her to a secluded area a couple of hours away, assaulted her, murdered her, covered their tracks and acted as though nothing had happened. It took a few months before it was solved and the remains were located.

I'm open to the bikes being staged too, but ONLY if the perp is local. If it is a random sex offender who just got off the freeway - he has no reason to stage the bikes. He would either take them or leave them where he took the girls. However, if a local came out of his house, lured the girls inside, and then subdued them is the perp -- he HAD TO stage the bikes -- to get them off of his driveway!!

 

[Confusion]

I'm open to the bikes being staged too, but ONLY if the perp is local. If it is a random sex offender who just got off the freeway - he has no reason to stage the bikes. He would either take them or leave them where he took the girls. However, if a local came out of his house, lured the girls inside, and then subdued them is the perp -- he HAD TO stage the bikes -- to get them off of his driveway!!

I would also say only if the abduction happened close to the lake. If it happened anywhere else, there are many places to dump the bikes that would be eaiser to get to and less likely to have witnesses.

 

[otto]

If they were abducted and then driven to the lake, it would have to be (IMO) someone familiar with the area. Otherwise someone who was an "out of towner" wouldn't spend precious time looking for a good spot to dump the bikes.

Absolutely. Everything about the location of the bikes suggests to me that the perp(s) is (are) familiar with that Maiden Lane area - regardless of whether the bikes were staged or the girls parked their bikes at the gate. It has to be someone that had a reason to be there prior to the abduction ... fishing, boating, partying as a teen, working at the Sewer Life Station ... some reason to explore that secluded Lane. If I was driving down the highway or passing through Evansdale, there is no way that I would take the chance of driving down Maiden Lane to ditch bikes or kidnap children without knowing that the Sewer Life Station did not have an office or security attendant ... the perp or perps knew that no one would be in the area on a Friday at noon.

I am assuming that Maiden Lane was used to either ditch the bikes or abduct the children ... as that seems like the most likely option.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The problem with the staging theory is the dogs picked up the girls scent.

 

[balaney]

maybe the girls borrowed the boat

 

[lishac23]

I'm open to the bikes being staged too, but ONLY if the perp is local. If it is a random sex offender who just got off the freeway - he has no reason to stage the bikes. He would either take them or leave them where he took the girls. However, if a local came out of his house, lured the girls inside, and then subdued them is the perp -- he HAD TO stage the bikes -- to get them off of his driveway!!

Only thing that keeps me from believing the bikes were staged is the scent dogs. Not sure if the report is 100% accurate...but if the dogs followed their scent to the bikes, and then followed their scent to the lake, IMO they were there. I'm no scent dog expert of course, but I don't think their scent would still have been traceable had it been a dump job.

 

[otto]

The problem with the staging theory is the dogs picked up the girls scent.

The dogs went to the lake ... and the girls bikes and purse were right there ... so it makes sense that they went from the bikes to the lake. Even if the dogs tracked to the Maiden Lane area, it suggests that something belonging to the girls was in the Maiden Lane area and the lake. Dogs track scent ... scent that could belong to clothing, bikes ... not necessarily that the girls walked the distance from the bikes to Maiden Lane. The dog information doesn't preclude staging.