IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

[otto]

i dont think a perp would stage a scene , heck they usually dont even bother to hid the victim if its a stranger/random perp. which in my mind means that the perp would have to be someone who would be suspected right away when they vanished family/friend of family. and even at that i think they would have been more likely to dump the bikes where they didnt think they would be found, maybe never found... staging things seems to eventually provide enough evidence to get the perp busted...

Police are considering the possibility that the bikes were staged, so it must be a something that happens more often than people realize.

 

[otto]

If the perp(s) placed the bikes where they were found, there should be prints on the bikes or on the purse...

If someone is going to make the effort to obscure the location where the girls were abducted, I think we can assume that the same person is not going to carelessly leave their fingerprints on the bikes.

 

[Copper]

Nagging me in the back of my mind is that the girls were taken by current/former member of LE, considering how the investigation has played out. So much time was bought and it seems like only someone familiar with LE would know what to do to buy that time.

EDIT: This would also account for lack of prints on the bikes/purse.

 

[RNER]

From my perspective, the only clue regarding who did this can be found in determining what happened to the girls ... whether the bikes were staged or placed there by the girls and which direction they went afterwards. Once their steps can be traced, police can possibly determine who was in that exact area and then identify possible abductors. Only then can the girls be found.

I absolutely do not believe that the family has any knowledge about the abduction of their children, so the only way to find them is to understand thei last movements of the children.

So, are you saying a "random" perp and abduction...with a "random coincidence that the girls they abducted have such bizarre family dynamics?

IMO...there is some family connection to the abductors or abduction, just not sure of the involvement yet!

 

[Sunlight]

I believe that the girls were in likely at the lake, because I trust that the dogs (two of them) tracked them some distance..some dogs track on the ground, some dogs air scent. I don't believe in the "van" theory, because I believe the bikes would have been taken away from the scene totally. My theory is that they were taken into the woods by a perp and/or taken into a car by someone who may have come back to the scene and changed or not changed the position of the bikes. I don't think the Maiden Lane to campground to Hanson's lake area have been checked adequately, because the volunteer search was called off too soon, because of other shiny objects and false theory trails...JMHO

 

[nervous_nellie]

If someone is going to make the effort to obscure the location where the girls were abducted, I think we can assume that the same person is not going to carelessly leave their fingerprints on the bikes.

unless this why they are considering the staged theory?

 

[Sunlight]

If someone is going to make the effort to obscure the location where the girls were abducted, I think we can assume that the same person is not going to carelessly leave their fingerprints on the bikes.

Precisely my point....not "carelessly"...gloves?

 

[nervous_nellie]

prints could be from someone not in afis, no prior arrests..

 

[otto]

[/B]

So, are you saying a "random" perp and abduction...with a "random coincidence that the girls they abducted have such bizarre family dynamics?

IMO...there is some family connection to the abductors or abduction, just not sure of the involvement yet!

There's nothing random or coincidental about abducted children and the families they come from. Children are kidnapped from all types of families and there's no reason to assume that because the families may be experiencing health, financial, substance abuse, or domestic violence issues, the families are involved in the abduction. There is no reason to assume that children from important families are kidnapped by strangers and children from families in distress are kidnapped by friends of the family. There is simply nothing to suggest that this happens.

 

[dotr]

Posted this video about missing Trudy Appleby on her WS thread and wondered if anything in that case is possibly related to this one...
Trudy Appleby went missing on August 21, 1996 - YouTube

 

[otto]

I believe that the girls were in likely at the lake, because I trust that the dogs (two of them) tracked them some distance..some dogs track on the ground, some dogs air scent. I don't believe in the "van" theory, because I believe the bikes would have been taken away from the scene totally. My theory is that they were taken into the woods by a perp and/or taken into a car by someone who may have come back to the scene and changed or not changed the position of the bikes. I don't think the Maiden Lane to campground to Hanson's lake area have been checked adequately, because the volunteer search was called off too soon, because of other shiny objects and false theory trails...JMHO

The dogs tracked objects belonging to the girls. They sniffed objects belonging to the girls and were commanded to search for similar objects. The dogs confirmed that objects belonging to the girls were at the SE tip of Meyers Lake, but police have said that this does not mean that the girls were there.

 

[hollyblue]

I need help in rationalizing the act of someone besides the family in staging the bikes? Why would a perp do that? Have there been other cases where this has happened.....someone took the time to actually stage/divert the direction of the investigation besides lying to investigators? Meaning planting physical evidence? My knowledge of SO's and their behaviors is young and limited, but I was under the assumption their only goal was to abduct the person/child. Even if a person in the peripheral wanting to "save" the girls-----would they bother to take the time and effort? I'd really like other's thought on this....or a link to a study of abductors staging the scene after the abduction. Just not understanding and grasping why so many believe the perp would actually do this. TIA

 

[otto]

Posted this video about missing Trudy Appleby on her WS thread and wondered if anything in that case is possibly related to this one...

Thanks. It would surprise me if someone was active in 1996 and then again now. Are there more similar cases over the years?

 

[Plombage]

What if the girls were playing on the jetted rocky area and the perp used Elizabeth's moms illness to get them in a vehicle. The girls would have left their bikes and the purse there in hurry to get back.

 

[palaminodee]

Indianola is S of Des Moines, IA

http://whotv.com/2012/08/07/attempted-abduction-indianola-girls-get-away/

 

[hollyblue]

i dont think a perp would stage a scene , heck they usually dont even bother to hid the victim if its a stranger/random perp. which in my mind means that the perp would have to be someone who would be suspected right away when they vanished family/friend of family. and even at that i think they would have been more likely to dump the bikes where they didnt think they would be found, maybe never found... staging things seems to eventually provide enough evidence to get the perp busted...

We are on the same page. Can't wrap my brain around someone staging the bikes unless they were meant to found....and that, to me, means family somehow would be relevant.

 

[cindersoot]

Nagging me in the back of my mind is that the girls were taken by current/former member of LE, considering how the investigation has played out. So much time was bought and it seems like only someone familiar with LE would know what to do to buy that time.

EDIT: This would also account for lack of prints on the bikes/purse.

And..how do you know there is a lack of prints on the bike/purse?

 

[LittleMissContrary]

I believe that the girls were in likely at the lake, because I trust that the dogs (two of them) tracked them some distance..some dogs track on the ground, some dogs air scent. I don't believe in the "van" theory, because I believe the bikes would have been taken away from the scene totally. My theory is that they were taken into the woods by a perp and/or taken into a car by someone who may have come back to the scene and changed or not changed the position of the bikes. I don't think the Maiden Lane to campground to Hanson's lake area have been checked adequately, because the volunteer search was called off too soon, because of other shiny objects and false theory trails...JMHO

The van theory might still be valid when you consider that Lyric was riding a bike that was described as a mountain bike, not a little girls bike. The logistics of putting two girls and two bikes, one larger in size, into the van perhaps made it impossible.
Maybe the girls were snatched, the bikes were dropped, the suspects then throw the girls in the van, and then realize they can't fit the bikes in the van so they just ditch them there.

 

[Copper]

I need help in rationalizing the act of someone besides the family in staging the bikes? Why would a perp do that? Have there been other cases where this has happened.....someone took the time to actually stage/divert the direction of the investigation besides lying to investigators? Meaning planting physical evidence? My knowledge of SO's and their behaviors is young and limited, but I was under the assumption their only goal was to abduct the person/child. Even if a person in the peripheral wanting to "save" the girls-----would they bother to take the time and effort? I'd really like other's thought on this....or a link to a study of abductors staging the scene after the abduction. Just not understanding and grasping why so many believe the perp would actually do this. TIA

I think the perp staged the bikes and the purse for two reasons.

1. As has been mentioned, it really set the investigation back by a week plus. A week plus is just that much more time for the perp to have the girls. Either it was a premeditated move to throw off LE or it was a spur of the moment decision that succeeded spectacularly.

2. I really think staging the bikes and purse could also have been an act of power, especially if the perp is local. He has a week to have his way with the girls while watching the investigation unfold and knowing he is in control while the family and LE seem clueless.

 

[cindersoot]

fyi...
BOATING
There are seven boat ramps on the lake and one on Coralville Lake. Pontoons, motorboats, canoes and paddle boats are available for rent near the beach.
BBM

Lake McBride about 45min south of waterloo rents paddleboats

http://www.stateparks.com/lake_macbride.html

I've been there, they are the little boats you pedal like a bike

I would more likely believe the perp borrowed one of the boats on the lake than be seen towing and putting a boat in the water. Plus rental receipts are trackable.