IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

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  • #461
One of them is the odd one out...find out why BOTH girls were taken, and you find the girls.

I have been thinking about this and IMHO either the perp(s) intended to take both girls and planned for it, or the second girl was just a bonus and for some reason was taken as well, rather than left where the bikes were found. I'm thinking that leaving her there with the bikes would have created a bigger problem. Imagine if TG had come upon a child left behind in whatever condition. There would have been less time to make a getaway.
Both of these options make me sick to my stomach, however if both girls were meant to be taken, this could explain why LE made a statement that they believed the girls were alive.
 
  • #462
Pahl is the manager of Cornbelt Auctions, 3520 Lafayette Road, where a 24-hour camera captured the footage from its position behind the building. The time and date stamp — 12:11 p.m. July 13 — fits the police timeline of the case.

However, Pahl said the camera’s clock is eight minutes slower than his U.S. Cellular phone.

About 4 p.m. the youngsters’ bikes and Collins’ purse were found on the south side of Meyers Lake. Ted Gamerdinger of Waterloo, a bicyclist who said he often rides the Evansdale Nature Trail, has previously told The Courier he saw the two kids’ bikes on the trail at about 12:20 p.m., but no sign of the children.
http://m.wcfcourier.com/news/evansd...cle_c7394e3c-d6a6-11e1-a4f3-0019bb2963f4.html

I definitely think this article the FBI is going by the time stamp specifically on the camera. Mr. Pahl said the clockon the camera is slower than his cell phone.... maybe his cellular phone is not correct. I have been known to set my clocks a little faster, so I will actually hurry and get to appointments on time....I tend to procrastinate. TG only states at about 12:20, could have been sooner than that or even later. Looking at the rate of speed the girls are traveling on the video, I do believe they could have made it to the lake within 8 minutes, maybe it was 10minutes. It was close I believe. Thanks to Wishbone for posting the link.




The time on my cell phone has always been exact and when verified with friends and family, we all have the same time.
 
  • #463
I had to log off right after my last mega-post (sorry about that one, lol), so I'm back to catching up again, hopefully, before I log off to make supper.

One thing that bothers me and I'd like some local input on -

I read a report that says the cctv footage caught the girls going in the OPPOSITE direction, away from the lake, not towards it.

Is this correct?

This may have been addressed, but just in case: I can't say anything about Hollye's map that doesn't include the word "amazing," and I live in the town on that map, lol.

But on that map, there is a thumbtack in the spot where they were last seen. The cctv was facing SSE in such a way that the Collins' home is just out of view (on the left). It has been said that the home was visible, but that is not correct. In the video, the girls are headed west on Brovan, meaning that they were in front of the Collins' home (where Gramma apparently could easily see them out a window) within a second or two before the cctv captured them. (Note that the Collins' home is mis-labeled on that map...the Collins' live in the largest house on the street, on the corner of Brovan and Sipple.) They rode out of view to the west (away from home).

Since that has been the last time that LE confirms they were spotted, we must assume that they never pass by that spot again (altho we don't know if they were spotted on that cctv before that). Since we only see them ride for about 200 ft, traveling west (and quickly), it is a stretch IMO to say they are headed "away from" or "in the opposite direction" from the lake.

With the lake approximately 1.5 miles south, technically the girls are almost exactly the same distance from the lake for the duration of the video. (Zoom out on that map to see that the entirety of Brovan Blvd exists within the east-west parameters of the lake.) It is presumed they headed south on River Forest Rd, but could have turned back east at any of several roads before finally arriving at the lake. They could also have found a way north towards Lafayette and looped back around, but I suspect that area was also covered by some camera(s) somewhere and discounted.

It was baffling for me to read that a MSM outlet considered their path to be one that was headed away from the lake. According to that line of logic the only way for them to be headed toward the lake in the video, would be if they were riding away from the camera, off the street and into back yards. That is clearly not what is happening in the video; if anything, they are riding parallel with the lake.
(And I'm saving this comment of mine in a Notepad file, because this point - and that "away from the lake" statement - has caused many to be confused, repeatedly. It's likely I'll copy/paste it again when the next sleuther re-visits that article.)


Thanks ... the below image was posted here today and dated July 14. It looks like it was taken with a zoom lens from the parking area on the opposite side of the lake (about 1400 feet away). It looks like there is enough room on the shore to walk without much difficulty. If someone was paying attention to the opposite side of the 27 acre lake, they would see people along the trail or at the drainage pipe, but if they were paying attention to their surrounding area, would they really see two children walking the 100 foot length from the drainage pipe to the forested area around Maiden Lane, or would they really see someone walking quickly towards the gate with two bikes? I'm just wondering ... since people aren't always that observant and even if they do see something, they don't always think about what they're seeing.

meyerslakejuly14.jpg

I saw that, and I agree, it is not at all impossible. You can see in that view just how depleted the lake had gotten this summer due to the drought. (I can remember even recently when the lake was lapping at the paved trail right up under the fence.) And it's true, that is a zoom lens being used, and that figures moving about over there could be missed, but, considering that the view is across the lake and not much is moving other than cars passing above the trail, any movement over there catches the eye. The jetty is also something that immediately draws your eye. That said, if you were distracted, sure you could miss it.

I was thinking more along the lines of a perp, in that once you step outside (off the trail) that gate, onto the jetty, you feel exposed. Since from over there the parking area is easily viewed, and you can clearly see anyone on the docks, fishing, even back on the playground, you'd definitely get the feeling that everyone across the lake would be watching you. Of course, if there were only a couple people, it might not register. To me, however, the walk to the east and around the fence provides much more cover, and is just as likely (if not more so) the route of choice if you were headed in to those woods (which I suspect).

I'm certainly not trying to discount the path from the jetty to the woods between the lake and the fence. I'm just trying to see myself doing it (or my kids, or someone trying to do it with less-than-willing kids and/or two bikes), and it seems difficult. Ultimately, I'm not sure it matters much, since I think we can universally agree that if the girls were taken from the lake, they entered a vehicle, and that vehicle had to be on Maiden Lane, on Arbutus, or in the grassy area. All of those areas have been scoured thoroughly, and since completely trampled by onlookers and sleuthers.
 
  • #464
His three hour timeframe strikes me as being pretty vague.

True...he's an old guy, retired, in his garden all day, I can just hear it

"I wouldn't swear to it, mind"

He probably has a rough idea but that's all.

It's still a sighting and I'm taking it.

:moo:
 
  • #465
That is the direct path (the bike trail through town) that I have always thought the girls took straight to where the bikes were found.

Yes! Me too!
 
  • #466
"IOWA CITY, Iowa (AP) — The Iowa State Fair says a police booth will display information about two missing Iowa cousins and accept tips about their whereabouts.

http://www.kcrg.com/evansdaledisapp...-Girls-Abducted-from-Evansdale-165302876.html

The fair faced harsh criticism online Tuesday after turning down a request from volunteers who wanted a booth so they could give out information about 10-year-old Lyric Cook and 9-year-old Elizabeth Collins."

There may be no ground searches for the girls but LE planned on handing out a box for tips etc at the fair. They must have a person of interest. IMOO I have never heard of police setting up anywhere with a tip box before at a fair or an event.

This tells me LE has nothing.
IMHOO
 
  • #467
Thanks to my dog I have double posted lol
 
  • #468
sbm -bbm

This statement leads off each new thread and seems to indicate the purse was found on the highway side of the fence (south of the trail), not the lake side (north of the trail). Do we have confirmation of exactly where the purse was found? Or, am I reading it wrong?

I tried to find that for 2 weeks. :)
Thank you SacreBleu.
You are reading it right! :moo:
 
  • #469
I tried to find that for 2 weeks. :)
Thank you SacreBleu.
You are reading it right! :moo:

The purse was found on the lake side of the fence.
 
  • #470
IMHO
Are any of these times we have from the various people involved confirmed in an FBI timeline? (I can't remember, so don't jump all over me if they are) It seems to me that these times are all skewed, and that the FBI is probably pretty happy with the inability of the times to add up with what's been reported in MSM. I think the key lies in the midst of all this.

Right now, our perp is probably pretty relaxed that he's gotten away with this. I'm sure the FBI has everything calculated out to the "nth" degree, and are waiting for a slip-up from their perp. They have that missing piece of the puzzle that ties everything together, and I think honestly, we're never going to make things work until we have that piece.

It's one of those "you can't get there from here" things at this point. :moo:
 
  • #471
True...he's an old guy, retired, in his garden all day, I can just hear it

"I wouldn't swear to it, mind"

He probably has a rough idea but that's all.

It's still a sighting and I'm taking it.

:moo:

I have no doubt he saw at least Elizabeth regularly. As for that day yeah I've had questions. I remember reading here that he started to say between "12 and 1" but his wife corrected it to "12 and 3." I always thought "12 and 1" seemed more likely. Trying to find the video so I can watch it again.
 
  • #472
This is another subject but thought some may want to know. They believe they have found Mickey Shunick's body, My local news ksla.com and many others here in Louisiana have it.

what OMGosh really? :please:
 
  • #473
I have no doubt he saw at least Elizabeth regularly. As for that day yeah I've had questions. I remember reading here that he started to say between "12 and 1" but his wife corrected it to "12 and 3." I always thought "12 and 1" seemed more likely. Trying to find the video so I can watch it again.

lol...bless her.
 
  • #474
I have no doubt he saw at least Elizabeth regularly. As for that day yeah I've had questions. I remember reading here that he started to say between "12 and 1" but his wife corrected it to "12 and 3." I always thought "12 and 1" seemed more likely. Trying to find the video so I can watch it again.

Ok, don't some people gauge when something happened by what was on tv at the time? For example, my mom couldn't tell you what time something happened, but she could tell you she was watching Jerry Springer at the time. So maybe he was possibly outside puttering in the yard from 12-3 by her tv or housekeeping routine, and she didn't believe he could really guesstimate accurately when he saw them? Or could he, maybe he had a yard maintenance routine he followed? :twocents:
 
  • #475
That is the direct path (the bike trail through town) that I have always thought the girls took straight to where the bikes were found.

Looking at this map, if the girls came down S. Evans rd and turned on Arbutus, the perp may have seen them coming past maiden lane/arbutus and been prepared for them. IMHO.
 
  • #476
The only timelines "confirmed" by LE are 12:15 and 3:58, and that depends on the definition of "confirmed"..lol Those are the only times they have used, as far as I can see, which means that everything else is up in the air....everything..and everybody...publicly. MOO
 
  • #477
lol...bless her.
How much you wanna bet they're still bickering about that?

"You embarrassed me on camera, woman!"

"Well, learn to read your watch, you old coot!"


[disclaimer - this post is meant to be humorous, not to offend. I'm married. This stuff happens. Trust me.]
 
  • #478
Ok, don't some people gauge when something happened by what was on tv at the time? For example, my mom couldn't tell you what time something happened, but she could tell you she was watching Jerry Springer at the time. So maybe he was possibly outside puttering in the yard from 12-3 by her tv or housekeeping routine, and she didn't believe he could really guesstimate accurately when he saw them? Or could he, maybe he had a yard maintenance routine he followed? :twocents:

This is true. Once, I actually gauged the time I had a car accident by the show I was listening to on the radio.
 
  • #479
There are about 10 intersections between the video footage and where the trail begins at the park. I really doubt that the girls powered through 1.5 miles and 10 intersections in less than 5 minutes.

evandalestreets.jpg

I can do it in 7 intersections, if they take Evans. And these are quiet residential streets, in the middle of a weekday when everyone was at work.
 
  • #480
I have no doubt he saw at least Elizabeth regularly. As for that day yeah I've had questions. I remember reading here that he started to say between "12 and 1" but his wife corrected it to "12 and 3." I always thought "12 and 1" seemed more likely. Trying to find the video so I can watch it again.

Sounds like his wife reads WS and knows how much fuss is being made over the timeline lol.
 
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