IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

[song22]

The computers were taken day one.

MCM opened a new facebook page after the girls went missing. She has two accounts. In the second she has a new profile picture wearing a pink shirt with the missing girls and she has also changed her friends list. DM also has two accounts. You can see all four as they are not set to private. It's true there aren't pictures of the girls, appeals etc. on either of them. But maybe LE asked them not to change anything at some point for some reason? I have no idea.

 

[roseofsharon]

I don't think anyone said Lyric was dressed like a sesame Street character. Early on, her flip flops ere described as having a SS character on them, although in an interview, Misty described them differently.

misty also said Lyric was wearing a green shirt in the morning, i.e. as pyjamas, but wasn't sure if she had changed once they got to Evansdale.

I'm pretty sure this was during an interview on the JVM show, which are all available on youtube. I can't look them up though.

Here's what I found ...

http://www.examiner.com/article/mis...-lyric-cook-morrissey-takes-lie-detector-test

 

[winterrose]

LE carries weapons.

It is illegal for anyone else to carry them so no one does.

Amazing thought hey.

You can go anywhere and pretty much guarantee no one is armed. A whole different mindset to the US.

Yes it is our mindset, for the most part, because all the bad guys carry, but this isn't a "to have or not have" forum, so...

 

[nikb]

I was looking through old articles and realized it might be good to re-share some of them. For those who've been following this awhile the links below will be repeat info and you may want to just skip them, but for those newer to the case or those who want to re-read some of the earlier stories.

(Quick caveat before I post the links: the inconsistencies in the articles when you look at them side by side are staggering. Some are explainable because the family just isn't sure, or info changes (i.e. Elizabeth's age going from 8 to 9 because of her birthday), but some are just crazy. The purse has been reported as anywhere from 10 feet to 20 feet to 20 yards (over 60 feet) away from the bikes. The lake has been reported as anywhere from 20 acres to 26 acres (granted, this one might change depending on the fullness of the lake but that's a pretty huge change). Even MCM's son is described as age 16 in one article, 12 in another.

I tend to believe the LE statements and press releases more anyway but geez, I had no idea the MSM articles were SO different even from one to the next. I respected LE before, but I now have a whole new increased respect for them and the piles of misinformation they must have to go through to get to the facts.)

With that little 'caveat' out of the way, there is still a lot of great info in these articles, especially about the early search efforts and family's early responses:

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...arents-continue-believe-cousins-were-abducted

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-07-20/...cousins_1_lake-search-lyric-cook-25-acre-lake

http://wtvr.com/2012/07/18/mom-thinks-missing-girls-may-have-been-taken/

http://www.kcrg.com/evansdaledisapp...or-Missing-Girls-162534996.html?m=y&smobile=y
(The one above had a lot of info in it. And I finally found where the "Sesame Street flip flops" came into play. I think the other description from the family about totally different flip flops (black straps, 'diamonds' on them) is probably more accurate, though.)

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...g-iowa-girls-investigation-as-abduction-case/

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_20c2e864-d215-11e1-a320-0019bb2963f4.html (this article has a lot about the early searches)

 

[otto]

Gosh, I don't get the impression at all that one could walk on that shoreline. It looks to me like the "shore" is just mud and muck.

Here's a close up of the shore from the July 14 photo. It looks like there's a piece of cardboard or a board on the shore line. I think two girls or a perp carrying two bikes could navigate that shore line without too much difficulty.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Wow. That's wonderful for the crime rate. Are you allowed to carry out in the bush? What the hey do you do if one of the many venomous snakes comes along? Geeezzzzz!!! Seriously....or in your yard? Maybe I watched too much of the Crocodile Hunter,,,,,,,,,,,,

People are allowed guns but you have to be licenced to purchase, also ammo, and I personally have no idea where a gun shop is in my state even.

The licences themselves are very hard to get. You have to be able to demonstrate a need for a gun, demonstrate good character (thats the hard part for your average crim) and most guns are banned outright, like semi automatics, automatics, etc. You have to apply to the police to be able to get a licence, there is NO SUCH THING as carrying in public places, it is illegal under any conditions.

If you wish to have a licence for say, sport, like joining a gun club, the police will actually interview the gun club to make sure you are who you say you are, are a person of good character, etc. Then you will still have a massive waiting period. You also have to be inspected that you have the correct storage facilities for the weapon, a shoebox under the bed won't do. It has to be keyed safe like storage cabinets of an approved brand only.

If you wish to have a licence for hunting, for example, you can get hunting rifles etc, but you also have to be of good character, have a waiting period, references, proof that you have permission to shoot on someones land etc.

It doesn't stop the crims getting the guns if they are really determined (they import them), but it has the effect of removing guns from the reach of most.

There is no such thing as someone coming home drunk, grabbing their gun and blowing the missus away, for example. Or kids playing Russian Roulette. Or muggings/robberies turning into fatal shootings.

I guess someone will post something proving me wrong but you get my drift...its so rare as to be almost non existent.

There is another gun amnesty on now. Anyone who still has one and cant.wont meet the licencing requirements can surrender them no questions asked. Our PM John Howard actually had a gun buy back scheme, you could get good money for your guns, he did this just to get them out of circulation after the Port Arthur massacre.

He called gun ownership "the American Disease".

 

[SapphireSteel]

Yes it is our mindset, for the most part, because all the bad guys carry, but this isn't a "to have or not have" forum, so...

Sorry I was answering a question...no one said anything about the rights or wrongs?

:moo:

 

[123ABC]

Originally Posted by 123ABC View Post
RE: traveling perp cindersoot.
I can not change my mind till the facts that are there change !! :-0 Im so curious to why and what made you change your mind ??? Did you learn any new actual facts that changed your mind!!??!! ITs strange really There are more facts in this case with these girls that the public has go on, than facts the public has to go on with these white vans attempting abductions all over the place !!! well how crazzee is that!! Is it or is it not the same white van/s people/s?? or just copy cats?? Who knows at this point really!!!


RE : RNER wow was this post intended for facebook

O
LOL WHy Im so cornfused I was just trying to see for my info and for you alls what facts changed Cindersoot mind ... SHe said today she changed her mind and she thinks its an out of town travleing perp. Im trying to stay grounded &trying not to get spun by factless theories .In not saying thinking out of the box is bad its great and believe me I have and its a good thing but it has come to a point I felt like was going in cirlces has come to a stop now now that I look at facts at hand. Im sure law enforcement is tring to keep from going in circle too however they do it I dont know I just know what works for me. If its a good way to solve something I have no idea . I certainly havent solved anything prob not even close but my theory is built on facts at this point and Im not so dizzy but geesh I still cant write worth a dang. Hope this makes sense

 

[Sunlight]

Thank you so much!

So, at first glance, they are heading away from the lake.

Gramma said she let them go out at 11.30 with a warning not to be long as they had an appointment. She started to get worried by 12.30.

It would fit this timeline if they were RETURNING to the house at 12.15? Right when Gramma expects them?

So maybe they'd already been to the lake and were heading home again when they were abducted?

All we need to explain then is the reason for the staging of the bikes, in this scenario...

Any glaring errors, please let me know.

:moo:

What do you mean already been to the lake and back (by 12:15)? What makes you think they were at the lake prior to 12:15? The bikes were found at 3:58 at the lake and possibly sighted at 12:20 by TG.

 

[brighidin]

Originally Posted by 123ABC View Post
RE: traveling perp cindersoot.
I can not change my mind till the facts that are there change !! :-0 Im so curious to why and what made you change your mind ??? Did you learn any new actual facts that changed your mind!!??!! ITs strange really There are more facts in this case with these girls that the public has go on, than facts the public has to go on with these white vans attempting abductions all over the place !!! well how crazzee is that!! Is it or is it not the same white van/s people/s?? or just copy cats?? Who knows at this point really!!!


RE : RNER wow was this post intended for facebook

O
LOL WHy Im so cornfused I was just trying to see for my info and for you alls what facts changed Cindersoot mind ... SHe said today she changed her mind and she thinks its an out of town travleing perp. Im trying to stay grounded &trying not to get spun by factless theories .In not saying thinking out of the box believe me I have and its a good thing but it has come to a point I felt like was going in cirlces has come to a stop now now that I look at facts at hand. Im sure law enforcement is tring to keep from going in circle too however they do it I dont know I just know what works for me. If its a good way to solve something I have no idea . I certainly havent solved anything prob not even close but my theory is built on facts at this point and Im not so dizzy but geesh I still cant write worth a dang. Hope this makes sense

I am not cindersoot, but i think it is because of all the reports of attempted abductions by people in white vans.

 

[smiley]

This is another subject but thought some may want to know. They believe they have found Mickey Shunick's body, My local news ksla.com and many others here in Louisiana have it.

 

[otto]

Sorry but directions are about as clear as mud to me.

I have a learning disorder.

I can only work on "towards" and "away" and "left" and "right".

Can you please place it in those terms? I could figure out what you're saying but not without getting a paper and pen...

:banghead:

Wouldn't it be easier to open up google maps, put north at the top (it's there by default) and then grab a paper and pen ...

 

[SapphireSteel]

The collins house is above the lake. Most people would go left to get there. The girls were seen on CCTV going left, so the reporter said they were going away from the lake. But as it turns out, you can get to the lake going either left and then down or right and then down. The girls weren't riding away from the lake, because you can get there from the left or the right.

I hope that helps and makes sense. And I hope i've got it right.

Yes thank you!

So what I really meant to ask, and should have, was -

the girls were caught on cctv heading to the house, or away from the house? The house being on the same street the cctv overlooked?


tia.

Looking from the cctv the girls were going from left to right. Was their house to the left of the cctv (behind them) or to the right of the cctv (in front of them)?

 

[Sunlight]

Here's what I found ...

http://www.examiner.com/article/mis...-lyric-cook-morrissey-takes-lie-detector-test

From what I recall, Misty was unsure of what Lyric was wearing...she thought she might be wearing a green t-shirt she wore for pj's..as for her flip flops...she said she wasn't sure, but her flip flops were the only shoes "missing" from the house. So..Misty did not "know" what Lyric was wearing. MOO

 

[nikb]

You got it! They were heading west in front of the Collins home. The lake is south. They could get to the lake by heading either east or west and then heading south.

Or turning their bikes around? I know there were supposedly no other bikes caught on that surveillance camera that day, but they could've been out of view of the camera.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Wouldn't it be easier to open up google maps, put north at the top (it's there by default) and then grab a paper and pen ...

That's like asking a dyslexic, wouldn't it be easier to open a dictionary?

I have a learning disorder that means I cannot process things like direction, times and numbers like other people do.

I've got ways of managing but it takes me a lot of effort.

 

[MNDad]

Yes thank you!

So what I really meant to ask, and should have, was -

the girls were caught on cctv heading to the house, or away from the house? The house being on the same street the cctv overlooked?


tia.

House is on the corner. They were a couple houses over riding away from the house.

 

[callyn]

I was looking through old articles and realized it might be good to re-share some of them. For those who've been following this awhile the links below will be repeat info and you may want to just skip them, but for those newer to the case or those who want to re-read some of the earlier stories.

(Quick caveat before I post the links: the inconsistencies in the articles when you look at them side by side are staggering. Some are explainable because the family just isn't sure, or info changes (i.e. Elizabeth's age going from 8 to 9 because of her birthday), but some are just crazy. The purse has been reported as anywhere from 10 feet to 20 feet to 20 yards (over 60 feet) away from the bikes. The lake has been reported as anywhere from 20 acres to 26 acres (granted, this one might change depending on the fullness of the lake but that's a pretty huge change). Even MCM's son is described as age 16 in one article, 12 in another.

I tend to believe the LE statements and press releases more anyway but geez, I had no idea the MSM articles were SO different even from one to the next. I respected LE before, but I now have a whole new increased respect for them and the piles of misinformation they must have to go through to get to the facts.)

With that little 'caveat' out of the way, there is still a lot of great info in these articles, especially about the early search efforts and family's early responses:

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...arents-continue-believe-cousins-were-abducted

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-07-20/...cousins_1_lake-search-lyric-cook-25-acre-lake

http://wtvr.com/2012/07/18/mom-thinks-missing-girls-may-have-been-taken/

http://www.kcrg.com/evansdaledisapp...or-Missing-Girls-162534996.html?m=y&smobile=y (The one above had a lot of info in it. And I finally found where the "Sesame Street flip flops" came into play. I think the other description from the family about totally different flip flops (black straps, 'diamonds' on them) is probably more accurate, though.)

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...g-iowa-girls-investigation-as-abduction-case/

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_20c2e864-d215-11e1-a320-0019bb2963f4.html (this article has a lot about the early searches)

BBM
Exactly my point yesterday re MSM. Then I was reminded quite thoroughly that MSM is considered a reliable source here. Trust but verify is always a good thing to do.

 

[SapphireSteel]

House is on the corner. They were a couple houses over riding away from the house.

Thanks!!!!

This is what I had originally thought but that abc report really threw me.

Finally someone dumbed it down enough lol.

:woohoo:

 

[palaminodee]

BBM
Exactly my point yesterday re MSM. Then I was reminded quite thoroughly that MSM is considered a reliable source here. Trust but verify is always a good thing to do.

but some inconsistencies were not the media, it was the family itself (not bashing) just in the heat of the moment various family members said different things. Who knows why, but their stories did vary. Plus the fact that Grandmother, Misty and Heather all thought the girls never went to the lake, but later on in one of the last interviews Aunt T said they'd been to the lake w/ the neighbors.

So, until LE confirms any of the witnesses and actual times, we have to go with approximate or maybe?