IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

[SapphireSteel]

I can do it in 7 intersections, if they take Evans. And these are quiet residential streets, in the middle of a weekday when everyone was at work.

Exactly.

I'm not even sure how that orange route came about?

It is the long way.

:dunno:

 

[SouthernMom]

I can do it in 7 intersections, if they take Evans. And these are quiet residential streets, in the middle of a weekday when everyone was at work.

If they took S Evans, then they came down arbutus and right past the other end of Maiden Lane, and were possibly seen by the perp(s) and rode right into "the trap" spoken of by LE.

 

[Sunlight]

Could it be a white van and somebody they know? So confusing.

 

[123ABC]

Fact they have is the timestamp . WItness seeing the girls and getting the time right exactly at that moment to me is more of a a guesstamint not a fact. Or maybe his watch was slow if he even looked at it at that exact moment. Lets see I see 2 girls then I look at my watch right away . Im not diggin on that too much room for error!! Way too much! Just my two pennies :-0


Me luv facts !!

 

[nikb]

I have no doubt he saw at least Elizabeth regularly. As for that day yeah I've had questions. I remember reading here that he started to say between "12 and 1" but his wife corrected it to "12 and 3." I always thought "12 and 1" seemed more likely. Trying to find the video so I can watch it again.

Found it! http://indianolarecordherald.desmoi...-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

I'm not convinced he was going to say "1 o'clock" but his wife definitely jumps in with the 3. Their accent isn't that strong but it's just enough different from California that I can't tell if that pause was about to be "1" or if it was more a pause like "uhhh." According to the article below his wife was out delivering newspapers so either she didn't see them or she saw them nearby, but the newspaper delivering might've helped her remember a time frame?

I don't know, MOO and ideas I'm throwing out there.

Here's the other photo and article: http://www.kwqc.com/story/19044405/witness-said-he-saw-missing-iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

 

[CHERIE.T]

Again, intuition.

I know these guys. Not them personally, but guys like them.

Mr G, Mr P and Mr C, they are all older, respectable gentlemen of comparative means, involved in local commerce and communities. The are as honest as the day is long and pretty much "salt of the earth".

They have absolutely zero reason to embroider. I have zero reason to disbelieve any of them, so my gut is...

8 minutes, the shortest route, going like the wind because they were on a mission of some sort.

It fits so perfectly, its scary.

:moo:

So was Ted Bundy. Mr.sweetie pie, friendly, great sense of humor, a respectable fellow to work with..................................UNTIL.

Statistics show that the last person who says they saw a missing person is usually one who........caused the disappearance.

Who knows?:moo:

 

[CHERIE.T]

I totally agree! I personally discount TG's statement. I threw his statement out of the scenerio before the second video was released. If I didn't throw him out of the timeline then I have him and the girls at the exact same spot at the same time, within mere moments. That does not work for me. And now that the second video has the girls by Elizabeth's home @ 12:19, it definately doesn't work at all.

Finally, someone said it. LOL

 

[Copper]

Exactly.

I'm not even sure how that orange route came about?

It is the long way.

:dunno:

The orange route on the map is the bike trail as it goes north away from the lake through Evansdale. It's seemed like a logical path for the girls to take from the north side of Evansdale to the south side, all the way or in part.

 

[Marnie]

Exactly.

I'm not even sure how that orange route came about?

It is the long way.

:dunno:

I agree. I think they came down S. Evans, turned left on Gilbert and a right @ Lake where Mr. Carpenter saw them and then onto Arbutus. Either crossed the field beyond the woods or continued on Arbutus and picked up on the trail. I think they took this way often and someone knew it.

 

[CHERIE.T]

The purse was found on the lake side of the fence.

cinder, who has the definite proof about where the purse was found? TIA. :moo:

 

[JaimeInLA]

If they took S Evans, then they came down arbutus and right past the other end of Maiden Lane, and were possibly seen by the perp(s) and rode right into "the trap" spoken of by LE.

Yes, I think you are exactly right. I'm not discounting any of the witnesses, and I can make it work.

They leave at 12:11-ish on a mission to meet their "friend." They ride down Evans, turn and ride by Mr. Carpenter's house, then pass the sewage lift station driveway on Arbutus where the perp is hiding. He sees them, so he walks out the other end (Maiden Lane, and along the fence). He is there waiting when the girls approach. He strikes up a conversation and lures them into the woods. TG comes along and swerves to miss their bikes, on the blind curve, as he described it, which is NOT the gate.

The perp subdues the girls in his vehicle in the woods (handcuffs, chloroform, whatever), then realizes that the bikes left where they are will point LE in the direction of the woods. He wants to put a little distance between the abduction location and the bikes. So he walks them down to the gate. There is no risk of being seen from the other side of the lake, because this section is obscured. If someone comes along, he will just smile and say, "hey, my daughter left her bike here," and nobody would ever suspect an abduction!! He thinks leaving them at the gate will make it look like the girls went into the lake and buy him time, which it does!

He returns to the car, and drives away.

LE denies the existence of TG (three times) because they don't want to reveal to the perp that they know the bikes were moved.

This has to be just killing TG that he was within feet of the girls and could have saved them, if he had only known.

 

[Sunlight]

Neither the Carpenters' nor TG's times have been confirmed by LE. MOO

 

[elmomom]

Found it! http://indianolarecordherald.desmoi...-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

I'm not convinced he was going to say "1 o'clock" but his wife definitely jumps in with the 3. Their accent isn't that strong but it's just enough different from California that I can't tell if that pause was about to be "1" or if it was more a pause like "uhhh." According to the article below his wife was out delivering newspapers so either she didn't see them or she saw them nearby, but the newspaper delivering might've helped her remember a time frame?

I don't know, MOO and ideas I'm throwing out there.

Here's the other photo and article: http://www.kwqc.com/story/19044405/witness-said-he-saw-missing-iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

Just jumping off this post... I don't know if I think it's likely, but it is possible that LE told them to keep the timeline vague if they talked to media. Since they were obviously questioned about the sighting time, and discussed it with LE, it is possible that LE did not want them to give out more exact information than a 3 hour time gap?

Eta: the reason I am speculating is that it almost seems to me that LE has gone out if its way to NOT discuss exact times other than 12:11 and 3:58, to the point if repeatedly denying the info from TG. (even though I do think the FBI dId affirm it, although not too exactly and not to give a time)

 

[123ABC]

Off Topic well sorta--Sorry but wondering how many people are trying to multitask on this sight and watch the Olympics at same time . Just have to keep rewinding to see whats going on This has been the strangest way to watch the Olympics ever. Its like my Computer and the Olympics are competing with each other ! :-0

 

[CHERIE.T]

Neither the Carpenters' nor TG's times have been confirmed by LE. MOO

:seeya: Thanks Sunlight.,



PS posters, I had to work all day today and then some. lol;
Please you all slow down. I had to read 20 pages to catch up. :floorlaugh:

Seriously thank you ALL for working so hard on this.
imoo

 

[MotherOcean]

I agree. I think they came down S. Evans, turned left on Gilbert and a right @ Lake where Mr. Carpenter saw them and then onto Arbutus. Either crossed the field beyond the woods or continued on Arbutus and picked up on the trail. I think they took this way often and someone knew it.

Me, too ^^ .

 

[Marnie]

Yes, I think you are exactly right. I'm not discounting any of the witnesses, and I can make it work.

They leave at 12:11-ish on a mission to meet their "friend." They ride down Evans, turn and ride by Mr. Carpenter's house, then pass the sewage lift station driveway on Arbutus where the perp is hiding. He sees them, so he walks out the other end (Maiden Lane, and along the fence). He is there waiting when the girls approach. He strikes up a conversation and lures them into the woods. TG comes along and swerves to miss their bikes, on the blind curve, as he described it, which is NOT the gate.

The perp subdues the girls in his vehicle in the woods (handcuffs, chloroform, whatever), then realizes that the bikes left where they are will point LE in the direction of the woods. He wants to put a little distance between the abduction location and the bikes. So he walks them down to the gate. There is no risk of being seen from the other side of the lake, because this section is obscured. If someone comes along, he will just smile and say, "hey, my daughter left her bike here," and nobody would ever suspect an abduction!! He thinks leaving them at the gate will make it look like the girls went into the lake and buy him time, which it does!

He returns to the car, and drives away.

LE denies the existence of TG (three times) because they don't want to reveal to the perp that they know the bikes were moved.

This has to be just killing TG that he was within feet of the girls and could have saved them, if he had only known.

Great post! This not only has the scent dogs picking up on the girls at the woods, but down the trail (scent from girls on bikes) and to the water's edge by way of Elizabeth's purse which he tossed onto the lake side of the fence!

 

[Sunlight]

I'm interested in that case someone posted earlier, and I can't find it...the one that was never solved...Davenport Iowa 1996. The perp was in his 20's at the time..if he's still around in Iowa somewhere, he'd be anywhere from 44-54 or something like that now. The girl resembled these two girls combined. Also, I wonder what kind of service or work vans the girls may have come in contact with...home repairs...maintenance..things like that. Just looking under stones...MOO

 

[SouthernMom]

Yes, I think you are exactly right. I'm not discounting any of the witnesses, and I can make it work.

They leave at 12:11-ish on a mission to meet their "friend." They ride down Evans, turn and ride by Mr. Carpenter's house, then pass the sewage lift station driveway on Arbutus where the perp is hiding. He sees them, so he walks out the other end (Maiden Lane, and along the fence). He is there waiting when the girls approach. He strikes up a conversation and lures them into the woods. TG comes along and swerves to miss their bikes, on the blind curve, as he described it, which is NOT the gate.

The perp subdues the girls in his vehicle in the woods (handcuffs, chloroform, whatever), then realizes that the bikes left where they are will point LE in the direction of the woods. He wants to put a little distance between the abduction location and the bikes. So he walks them down to the gate. There is no risk of being seen from the other side of the lake, because this section is obscured. If someone comes along, he will just smile and say, "hey, my daughter left her bike here," and nobody would ever suspect an abduction!! He thinks leaving them at the gate will make it look like the girls went into the lake and buy him time, which it does!

He returns to the car, and drives away.

LE denies the existence of TG (three times) because they don't want to reveal to the perp that they know the bikes were moved.

This has to be just killing TG that he was within feet of the girls and could have saved them, if he had only known.

I agree except I think he walked up from the lake side of the fence, and grabbed them from the gate area, took them inside the gate and led them between the waterline and the fence, Elizabeth dropped her purse or was forced to drop it, due to the cell phone being in it, and led them to a vehicle waiting in the woods. He/she was in and out in a matter of minutes. If TG passed by on the paved path, he just made the girls hunker down and threatened them with the weapon to keep them quiet. Then he/she led them to the vehicle in the woods. If there were two perps, one came from behind them and the other met them at the gate and led them to the woods. Quick and easy. If someone shows up, the plan is aborted.
I feel bad for TG, also, but in his defense, he is not the first person to be within a breath of being able to save someone from an abduction. Sadly, I have read so many stories where this happened. Unfortunately he had no way of knowing what was happening.

 

[craftybatchy]

So was Ted Bundy. Mr.sweetie pie, friendly, great sense of humor, a respectable fellow to work with..................................UNTIL.

Statistics show that the last person who says they saw a missing person is usually one who........caused the disappearance.

Who knows?:moo:

BBM

Hmmm. Totally not meaning to sound snarky (honest ) but do you have a reference for that statistic ?