IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #17

[otto]

Thanks for making me think in another direction.
Otto, if the girls were abducted near their house, do you think that could have happened without anyone seeing them?
Was the Auction Shop opened?
Were any neighbors in their yards?
are possible witnesses afraid to come forward?
You can probably tell
I get a little too focused on 1 theory. Your post made me realize a simple , probable fact.... more than 1 perp was likely involved.
With 2 girls on bikes being the victims , there must have been someone controlling the girls and another someone loading bikes and driving a vehicle. But how do people do this type thing?
Do they leave work and commit crimes?
Thanks for making me think.
IMO

Where are the girls?

I absolutely believe that the children could have been grabbed in the parking lot without anyone noticing. That is almost an industrial area shopping parking lot. Look at the parking lot as it connects to Lafayette.

It was noon on a Friday ... presumably the Auction Shop was open. A local posted that it had rained through the night and drizzled a bit in the morning, so I doubt that people were in their yards in the morning ... the children disappeared at noon. Any witness that claimed to be watering the barren lawn that afternoon would appear odd.

I too was stuck on "how does one person control two children while staging the bikes" until someone mentioned the taser. Risky without two people. Luring would only require one perp.

(thanks to Ollipop for the photos)

 

[otto]

 

[otto]

The grandmother may have been mistaken about the time. She initially said something like noon or 11:30, but maybe it was already 12 noon before the girls poured their V8 drinks, set them on the counter, and set off on a bike ride. Maybe the girls hopped on their bikes, quickly rode East to give their grandmother the impression that they were going to cycle circles in the area, then circled back through the parking lot and headed West to the Evansdale Nature Trail off Lafayette. If so, they were on a mission. What sort of mission could Lyric have been on that day ... what did she want more than anything ... and who knew that?

 

[otto]

Someone posted a while back that children under the age of 13 normally cycle at about 9 miles per hour. I factored it out and it seemed impossible for the girls to reach the destination in 6 minutes (12:19 - 12:25) at 15 miles per hour ... because children under the age of 13 ride at about 9 miles per hour. I later read the linked article, and it said that children often cycle at 15 miles per hour, but that it is not the average. The study was done to determine whether children or adults were better at estimating accurate cycling speed. The study included the fact that children under 13 cycle at 15 miles per hour.

Lyric and Elizabeth may have traveled at 15 miles per hour from home to the park. That's 1.5 miles in 6 minutes. If they cycled at 15 miles per hour to the double gate at the SE tip of Meyers Lake, parked their bikes, passed through the gate and set down a purse, then they were very definitely meeting someone ... and whomever they met quickly guided them out of the area ... most likely via Maiden Lane and up to 100 miles away within the three hours before anyone really knew that they were missing forever.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Otto! Those maps are wonderful! They truly allow me to see and
understand the area.
A huge thank you!

 

[CHERIE.T]

Now I 'get' it. This picture shows IMO a lot of places where the abduction could have taken place. Places where the perp or perps wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb.
The area reminds me of a little strip mall where I worked part time for an insurance company. There was a small area behind the office for trash cans, a narrow gravel drive way , then a small wooded area. Seldom was anyone seen back there. Things could have happened there and no one would have been the wiser.
I still believe whoever took the girls knew about their bike rides.
IMO

 

[otto]

Now I 'get' it. This picture shows IMO a lot of places where the abduction could have taken place. Places where the perp or perps wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb.
The area reminds me of a little strip mall where I worked part time for an insurance company. There was a small area behind the office for trash cans, a narrow gravel drive way , then a small wooded area. Seldom was anyone seen back there. Things could have happened there and no one would have been the wiser.
I still believe whoever took the girls knew about their bike rides.
IMO

Elizabeth Collin's lived on the corner across from some warehouse type businesses with ample parking. The grandmother said that the girls cycled in cirlces in front of the house and were always within hearing distance. The best I can figure out is that they cycled in the parking lot. Who know who they could have met there.

 

[CHERIE.T]

The grandmother may have been mistaken about the time. She initially said something like noon or 11:30, but maybe it was already 12 noon before the girls poured their V8 drinks, set them on the counter, and set off on a bike ride. Maybe the girls hopped on their bikes, quickly rode East to give their grandmother the impression that they were going to cycle circles in the area, then circled back through the parking lot and headed West to the Evansdale Nature Trail off Lafayette. If so, they were on a mission. What sort of mission could Lyric have been on that day ... what did she want more than anything ... and who knew that?

What and who.
Something wascimportant enough to Lyric that made her want to haul butt.....even though she knew she and Lizzy had to be home soon.
When I look at it this way, a 10 year old girl.....would rush to meet a boy, :what::moo:

 

[nikb]

The grandmother may have been mistaken about the time. She initially said something like noon or 11:30, but maybe it was already 12 noon before the girls poured their V8 drinks, set them on the counter, and set off on a bike ride. Maybe the girls hopped on their bikes, quickly rode East to give their grandmother the impression that they were going to cycle circles in the area, then circled back through the parking lot and headed West to the Evansdale Nature Trail off Lafayette. If so, they were on a mission. What sort of mission could Lyric have been on that day ... what did she want more than anything ... and who knew that?

I'm not disagreeing but what if it was Elizabeth who the one on the mission? It's the town where she lived, right? I'm trying so hard to consider alternate possibilities and this is one of them. I'm not set on anything, I'm just asking. I wish something stuck with me as definite.

I could see the younger cousin trying to show off to the older one, "C'mon follow me!" and the "bold, daring" (as described by the family) Lyric thinking no way she'd be out-done, she was gonna try to catch/outrun Lizzie on their bikes. Something bad definitely happened but I keep hoping maybe something in the middle helps get them found, if it can be figured out. Side note yes, it does make me sick to think of kids not being able to be just little girls out having fun. I guess it's always existed and the web probably made it more prominent but it makes me sick and sad every time.

 

[otto]

What and who.
Something wascimportant enough to Lyric that made her want to haul butt.....even though she knew she and Lizzy had to be home soon.
When I look at it this way, a 10 year old girl.....would rush to meet a boy, :what::moo:

A boy is probably far more interesting than a paddle boat ride. Someone that looks young but isn't, or someone that seems forthright and honest but isn't ... it seems like it has some sort of trickery.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Elizabeth Collin's lived on the corner across from some warehouse type businesses with ample parking. The grandmother said that the girls cycled in cirlces in front of the house and were always within hearing distance. The best I can figure out is that they cycled in the parking lot. Who know who they could have met there.

Right, they could have met anyone. Who?
Both girls are friendly,ones even called a pretty good talker. Lol
I'm betting neither are very shy.
Like you asked before, why the rush and to who?

At the ages of 8 and 10, my boys liked guy friends , baseball and Nintendo. Lol
My girls liked music, books, sleep overs and boys.
IMO

 

[CHERIE.T]

A boy is probably far more interesting than a paddle boat ride. Someone that looks young but isn't, or someone that seems forthright and honest but isn't ... it seems like it has some sort of trickery.

Exactly! Paddle boats are too slow, lol. Any males in the area who look much younger than they are?

 

[CHERIE.T]

I'm not disagreeing but what if it was Elizabeth who the one on the mission? It's the town where she lived, right? I'm trying so hard to consider alternate possibilities and this is one of them. I'm not set on anything, I'm just asking. I wish something stuck with me as definite.

I could see the younger cousin trying to show off to the older one, "C'mon follow me!" and the "bold, daring" (as described by the family) Lyric thinking no way she'd be out-done, she was gonna try to catch/outrun Lizzie on their bikes. Something bad definitely happened but I keep hoping maybe something in the middle helps get them found, if it can be figured out. Side note yes, it does make me sick to think of kids not being able to be just little girls out having fun. I guess it's always existed and the web probably made it more prominent but it makes me sick and sad every time.

Nikb, I thought about that recently too. How sad is it that these little girls couldn't do normal things without meeting danger? They should be back in school, discussing their summer during lunch., getting books from the library and making projects.
So heartbreaking.

 

[otto]

I don't think is has to be someone younger. It could just as easily be someone that shows a photo a younger boy ... or tells the girls how pretty they are, that they could be a model, but they should surprise their moms with the pictures ... don't mention it until after we see how they turn out ... kind of a meet and vanish scenario.

 

[cindersoot]

Now I 'get' it. This picture shows IMO a lot of places where the abduction could have taken place. Places where the perp or perps wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb.
The area reminds me of a little strip mall where I worked part time for an insurance company. There was a small area behind the office for trash cans, a narrow gravel drive way , then a small wooded area. Seldom was anyone seen back there. Things could have happened there and no one would have been the wiser.
I still believe whoever took the girls knew about their bike rides.
IMO

When you said small strip mall, I wanted to jump in, because it is not like any small strip small I ever seen. Its old and dingy and from what I saw the buisnesses which are two, look like they are from the 50's. Also it's in clear view of a huge amount of traffic thats not shown on any map.

 

[cindersoot]

Question to all. Would the dogs catch the girls scent at the lake, even if they weren't there but the scent was on the perp ( from picking up, or touching the girls) , and he left it while staging the bikes?

 

[cindersoot]

Right, they could have met anyone. Who?
Both girls are friendly,ones even called a pretty good talker. Lol
I'm betting neither are very shy.
Like you asked before, why the rush and to who?

At the ages of 8 and 10, my boys liked guy friends , baseball and Nintendo. Lol
My girls liked music, books, sleep overs and boys.
IMO

Thats why I think they rode the bike trail past the skate park, lotes of boys there.

 

[cindersoot]

What and who.
Something wascimportant enough to Lyric that made her want to haul butt.....even though she knew she and Lizzy had to be home soon.
When I look at it this way, a 10 year old girl.....would rush to meet a boy, :what::moo:

Or a perp with a surprise.

 

[princesspjs]

Seems to me she has one of those faces that are in a perpetual "smile"...whether it seems appropriate or not....

Have known and worked with people who have a certain , I don't know a good term, "smile-face"...?

Anyhow, thoughts are with her...

We call it a "perma-grin" around here (WA state)

 

[CN2Souls]

My personal Opinion only,

I believe That there were two people and one of them was a woman who led them away from "wherever" they were at the time, to awaiting vehicle were a man was inside already or she was going to drive them to were the woman’s partner was at.


I do not think the family was involved.
I also do not believe that the girls are within a 10 mile radius of last of abduction site.