IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #17

[SapphireSteel]

Oh, and one more thing. I am also more convinced than ever before that Maiden Lane was NOT used. The video makes it pretty clear that any ordinary car or white van could not easily make it back there. The girls were snatched closer to home, and the bikes were put at the gate to make people think they drowned. And it worked. It bought the perp 1 full week to clean up whatever he did. IMO.

Common sense indicates this is accurate however, there are two aspects I cannot get past which are -

1. the dogs found the girls scent at the lake
2. TGs sighting of the bikes.

eta...make that three...

3. Mr C's sighting in Lake Ave

 

[Beyond Belief]

The perp could have been on a bike, one phone call and one of his demented buddies could have been down there to pick them.

 

[CHERIE.T]

BBM. One thing that happened during that time is Grandma said she drove around looking for the girls between 12:30 - 1:30. Drew must have been home with the younger kids during that time too? So the girls were out of sight then or she just missed them.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Yes, you're right about the grandmother possibly missing the girls as she drove around looking for them.

imo

 

[JaimeInLA]

Common sense indicates this is accurate however, there are two aspects I cannot get past which are -

1. the dogs found the girls scent at the lake -- We don't know this. Abben said that the girls may or may not have been at the lake. Breault said they were at the lake, but she also said they had evidence they were alive, and has now retracted that. Tammy said she thinks the dogs indicated they were at the lake, but Tammy knows nothing about tracking dogs. Even if the dogs DID indicate they were at the lake, the girls could have been there on Thursday, not Friday. To me, the dogs mean nothing.


2. TGs sighting of the bikes. -- <modsnip>
eta...make that three...

3. Mr C's sighting in Lake Ave -- This still could have happened. If they were snatched near the skatepark, he would have seen them. Then the bikes could have been easily placed at the gate.

Answers inserted above, in bold.

 

[TxLady2]

I've never followed the case of a missing person when a suspect was named before an arrest. I've been thinking about that and wondering if that ever happens.

It depends on the agency, and the case itself. In Michelle Parker's case, they named her ex-fiance as prime suspect months ago, but he has never been arrested.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Answers inserted above, in bold.

Thanks.

Absolutely it could have happened that way...

We have three fifths of nothing to go on when sleuthing this one.

Formulating theories that ignore what little "evidence" we DO have, seems to me to be against the rules of KISS.

I firmly believe a person intent on abducting a child would be looking for the quickest, easiest way to get a child.

Abducting two AND THEIR BIKES (silently, unseen) on a town street in the school holidays just seems wildly improbable to me...especially when you add in the fact the bikes and purse were found at the lake.

Take Jaycees abduction for example...they just took her. No staging, no driving around dumping/staging her property. Just grab and go.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I've never followed the case of a missing person when a suspect was named before an arrest. I've been thinking about that and wondering if that ever happens.

Skip on over to the Charley Project.

You will find many, many disappeared persons (especially women) whose partners have been named as POI, yet never prosecuted.

It pretty much boils down to no body, no prosecution.

:cow:

 

[CHERIE.T]

I cannot imagine contemplating suicide if there was a chance my child was alive and could come home. No way!

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Thanks for saying that.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Thanks.

Absolutely it could have happened that way...

We have three fifths of nothing to go on when sleuthing this one.

Formulating theories that ignore what little "evidence" we DO have, seems to me to be against the rules of KISS.

I firmly believe a person intent on abducting a child would be looking for the quickest, easiest way to get a child.

Abducting two AND THEIR BIKES (silently, unseen) on a town street in the school holidays just seems wildly improbable to me...especially when you add in the fact the bikes and purse were found at the lake.

Take Jaycees abduction for example...they just took her. No staging, no driving around dumping/staging her property. Just grab and go.

I think what you are calling "ignoring evidence" is what I call "reading between the lines and seeing clues in the evidence we do have."

Your statement above assumes this was a stranger abduction. If the 2 girls were familiar with the perp, had met him before and were friendly with him -- he wouldn't have to abduct them and their bikes at all. He just had to persuade them to get in the van ("C'mon, I'll buy you girls some ice cream! We'll drop your bikes off at home and make sure it's ok with Grandma!").

We see on that video how few people are around. To say Evansdale is sleepy is an understatement. A familiar perp with a van would have all the opportunity in the world to lure the 2 girls to go with him without being seen.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I think what you are calling "ignoring evidence" is what I call "reading between the lines and seeing clues in the evidence we do have."

Your statement above assumes this was a stranger abduction. If the 2 girls were familiar with the perp, had met him before and were friendly with him -- he wouldn't have to abduct them and their bikes at all. He just had to persuade them to get in the van ("C'mon, I'll buy you girls some ice cream! We'll drop your bikes off at home and make sure it's ok with Grandma!").

We see on that video how few people are around. To say Evansdale is sleepy is an understatement. A familiar perp with a van would have all the opportunity in the world to lure the 2 girls to go with him without being seen.

Please understand I am not snarking at you, I had absolutely considered the abduction taking place away from the lake...it still may have...but this would mean specifically discounting Mr G's sighting.

I get strong indications that this witness is very solid. It appears I am alone in this on this forum. I do not believe for one second he "confabulated" the sighting, made it up, embroidered it, got his times or days wrong.

I do not believe it was a stranger abduction, at all. Never have. I believe the girls knew their abductor.

Add in Mr G, Mr C and Mr P, also Mr C's wife, and Mr G's daughter, and there are just too many (in my mind) CREDIBLE witnesses to the girls being at (or at least very nearby) that lake.

The dogs tracking their scent into the wooded area tends to confirm this.

All opinion only.

 

[TxLady2]

Sorry, I'm still trying to catch up. I keep seeing this and I'm wondering how we know Lyric was interested in boys. My youngest is 10 and she isn't interested in boys at all yet. I don't think my oldest was at the age either. . .closer to 12ish IIRC.

Anyway, I just don't want to assume that is true, because I still think 10 is a little young. Maybe when Lyric was out with her older cousins, but I can't see a boy being the lure when she was out with an 8yr old. However, I can see it being something else. . .a phone, IPad, puppy, etc.

MOO

ETA_ I'm still favoring that the girls didn't rush to the lake and they were taken somewhere close to Brovan. It sounds like Lizzie was a talker. I think they could have been watched, then approached and lured over to a van. What if after a short convo someone offered to help them with their bikes. . .I'll adjust your seat for you, tighten your breaks, etc. Just come over here to my van where my tools are. . .. ??

It's just a thought.

I feel the same way, I don't think all 10 y.o. girls are all that interested in boys yet. Some might be, of course. I'm not all that knowledgable about girls' minds these days, and things are so much different than they were when I was growing up, so I could be wrong. But at 10, I "liked" boys at school, probably a different boy every week... but they were not my priority, as I was still climbing trees and playing catch with my brother. My stepdaughter didn't come to live with us until she was 13, and according to her she was already dating, but I think it was limited to sitting beside one at the movies, or meeting up at the skating rink.

 

[Bettylou4you]

Thanks for this article, HeavenLeigh! Lots of info here that's new to me.
BBFox -

NEW & DETAILED ARTICLE!
On a recent Wednesday afternoon, as the case of two missing cousins entered its third week, officers descended on an Elk Run Heights home.

Marked sheriff’s office squad cars pulled up with two nondescript passenger cars in tow. Uniformed deputies took up positions around the house. Plainclothes detectives and FBI agents knocked at the door.

They talked with the resident and checked in an old camping trailer in the backyard.

Then the lawmen left. The whole episode took about 45 minutes."snipped" <re-snipped by FoxB.>

Since the resident and house number are unidentified in the article, I hope it's acceptable for me to comment and/or ask questions here. What does "two...passenger cars in tow...." indicate to you guys? Might the PD have been returning cars which they had taken into station to search? I wish the article had mentioned if the PD left the two towed cars at the residence when they left.

The subject article also mentions that a "trained team" recently scoured a wooded area along Elk Run Creek. Does anybody know if there were search dogs on site? If there were, I wonder what their search specialty is.

I don't think they meant literally 'in tow'. I think they are referring to unmarked cars carrying additional officers and FBI agents.

 

[SapphireSteel]

My beautiful daughter is 19 and still has no particular interest in dating.

She has put her studies first.

She has seen her friends pretty much screw up their lives chasing one boy or another, in some cases men.

She's smart and said "nup"...so far. Wild horses would not drag her to meet a boy at that age, she was still playing with Lego.

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space> I get strong indications that this witness is very solid. It appears I am alone in this on this forum. <snip>

BBM - I just wanted to let you know, you're not.

 

[Mandy113]

Whoever took the girls apparently did so while leaving little evidence. Yes, it could have been someone familiar to the girls or simply a very well prepared perp.

But I just can't see the staging of the bikes. If the perp(s) abducted the girls without being seen, why take the risk of being noticed with their bikes at the lake? As another poster astutely pointed out earlier, this was not a reckless perp. (I'm sorry I can't remember who posted it)

All JMO. Not trying to argue with anyone, it's just my take on the events we know about.

 

[ShyViolet]

Please understand I am not snarking at you, I had absolutely considered the abduction taking place away from the lake...it still may have...but this would mean specifically discounting Mr G's sighting.

I get strong indications that this witness is very solid. It appears I am alone in this on this forum. I do not believe for one second he "confabulated" the sighting, made it up, embroidered it, got his times or days wrong.

I do not believe it was a stranger abduction, at all. Never have. I believe the girls knew their abductor.

Add in Mr G, Mr C and Mr P, also Mr C's wife, and Mr G's daughter, and there are just too many (in my mind) CREDIBLE witnesses to the girls being at (or at least very nearby) that lake.

The dogs tracking their scent into the wooded area tends to confirm this.

All opinion only.

BBM. Do you have a link showing Mr P.,Mrs. C and Mr G's daughter saw the girls at or near the lake that day? :waitasec:

 

[Confusion]

BBM - I just wanted to let you know, you're not.

There are a few of us here.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Elk Run Heights has bothered me all the way through.

It appears significant.

Are there any locals who can give me an idea of why this would be? Is it a "kid magnet" type of place?

The reason I ask this is granma specifically mentioned it when describing where they had searched.

 

[Simp]

Please understand I am not snarking at you, I had absolutely considered the abduction taking place away from the lake...it still may have...but this would mean specifically discounting Mr G's sighting.

I get strong indications that this witness is very solid. It appears I am alone in this on this forum. I do not believe for one second he "confabulated" the sighting, made it up, embroidered it, got his times or days wrong.

I do not believe it was a stranger abduction, at all. Never have. I believe the girls knew their abductor.

Add in Mr G, Mr C and Mr P, also Mr C's wife, and Mr G's daughter, and there are just too many (in my mind) CREDIBLE witnesses to the girls being at (or at least very nearby) that lake.
The dogs tracking their scent into the wooded area tends to confirm this.

All opinion only.

Just wanted to say.. You are not alone!! I also believe these are credible witnesses. FWIW. MOO

 

[CHERIE.T]

I've never followed the case of a missing person when a suspect was named before an arrest. I've been thinking about that and wondering if that ever happens.

Scott Peterson