IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

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  • #501
snipped, bolded etc by me (to take out what I have questions on...hopefully you can answer my questions)

Again...let me preface by saying I praise TG over and over for his actions so I'm not bashing him. I'm trying to understand the LE actions and MSM reports and photos (while sadly taking into account that your statement would still technically be considered hearsay as this rendition isn't given by TG himself)

Ok...so, what I see in this account may give us some clues. In your statement you've stated that TG reported his sighting 3 different times and only AFTER the 3rd attempt did LE come to speak with him. Why? :waitasec: Let's analyze this...

I would have thought that someone who reports they saw the bikes laying on the path the day these girls went missing could have been a HUGE breakthrough (if they had nothing else to go on)...and yet they didn't even follow up on it. This makes me wonder if LE already HAD their evidence/ clues of what happened and that this sighting didn't change or alter what their evidence already supported. If his sighting supports the already collected evidence then there really is no reason to mention TG.

Maybe they already can prove an EARLIER time when the bikes were there (possibly by other witnesses) so later accounts are just additional proof that the bikes never moved from that spot?

Maybe that is why they didn't jump on contacting him...because they still needed someone to come forward BEFORE the time he saw the bikes...as someone else had already confirmed they were there around the same time TG saw them?

I'm trying to read between the lines...:banghead:

Yes, I agree with you on that one. I think the initial thoughts by everyone in the area was that the girls had simply wandered away from their bikes into the woods or possibly drown. News didn't really spread about the disappearance until Saturday afternoon, and it was not even reported on our local news station until Saturday - they got a lot of flak on that! Reports about seeing the bikes might not have been taken seriously, or even considered necessary, until after that weekend, when searchers could not find the girls and it was obvious something was very wrong. :moo: Things like this just don't happen around here...:confused:
 
  • #502
Sure, anything is possible! IMO they were there, due the the bloodhounds following their scent and a few things.

Can you elaborate on the 'few things'?
 
  • #503
I respectfully disagree with part of your posting, purely based on a recent personal experience. I think you can believe what LE says to the public and they do tell the facts without consideration given to rumors, media and public interpretation, or speculation. Media coverage, public interpretation, speculated statements and rumors SHOULD NOT be considered reliable.

I agree that LE is very vague in their facts and purposely omits information as part of the investigation, witness authentication, POI interrogation. I believe that reliable witness statements to LE are kept confidential and what a witness reports to the public may not be what was reported to LE. I do question why reliable witnesses would make a public statement, however I know about the persistance and tactics used by Media to get them to talk. Also, I believe when LE states that they have POIs that they are questioning and evidence that they have collected, they know ALOT more about the case than the public believes.

LE cannot just arrest someone WITHOUT EVIDENCE OR PROOF, which may take time. Just because information is not given to the public, it doesn't mean that they don't know what is going on in the case or don't have a supect, motive, etc. This I know for a fact!

Well said and I agree with you.
 
  • #504
I think they were there too, just that they weren't on there way there at that point in time. :)

I think they were there earlier in the day...

.....wish these girls were found and on their way home!!!! :please:


*thanks for all your local insights and info - we really appreciate it!!! :clap:

You're welcome. It could very well be they were going somewhere else I suppose. But, again, I have no idea where they would be going. The intersection of River Forest Road and Lafayette Street consists of a small gas station, a car wash, and a bar. Other businesses in the area include a can redemption center, car repair/detailing, two other bars, a restaurant that was closed I think, and a home decor store. There is a small pocket of residential area on the North side of Lafayette, or maybe they were going down Lafayette into Waterloo? Either way, both these roads are usually fairly busy, Lafayette much more than River Forest Road. And still no sightings? I'm sure all security tapes have been scoured all around town by now, and LE is still mum.
 
  • #505
I'm not going to be able to keep up with the conversation for a few days. We have a hurricane in the Gulf (I'm on the coast) and my beloved dad was diagnosed with stage 3 lung cancer yesterday morning. He's on a ventilator and they can't get him off of it because he's so sick right now. Not trying to add to the drama, but I don't want to just disappear for awhile and anyone to think I've given up on these precious girls. They are in my constant prayers. I would give anything in the world if today would be the day that they come home. I hope to check back in soon and read the blessed news that they are home safe and sound.


Prayers for your dad, and please stay safe!
We just found out today that my husband's sister in AL had a heart attack over the weekend and is in ICU.
 
  • #506
Yes, I agree with you on that one. I think the initial thoughts by everyone in the area was that the girls had simply wandered away from their bikes into the woods or possibly drown. News didn't really spread about the disappearance until Saturday afternoon, and it was not even reported on our local news station until Saturday - they got a lot of flak on that! Reports about seeing the bikes might not have been taken seriously, or even considered necessary, until after that weekend, when searchers could not find the girls and it was obvious something was very wrong. :moo: Things like this just don't happen around here...:confused:

I'm a (somewhat) local too :woohoo: so I know exactly what you mean! I have been glued to this case from the beginning because this is too close to home for me. What scares the crap out of me is the lack of experience LE has when it comes to cases like this. How can we possibly expect a tiny town's LE to know the "right" way to handle scenarios like this when they happen next to NEVER?

I really pray LE are going to surprise the heck outta me and break this wide open with something soon that gives these poor families SOME sort of answer (good or bad). I believe they are all doing all they can to bring these girls home.
 
  • #507
Can you elaborate on the 'few things'?

I can't discuss rumors of another possible sighting in town, so I will just defer to Occam's razor here. MOO
 
  • #508
we are absolutely NOT going to go here again with sleuthing the witnesses. No we are not

:nono:

This would include the "hay" conversation.

There also will NOT be a poll for this thread at this time. We can discuss what is out there in the main stream media. That is the way we roll. Some places let rumors grow legs but we cut them off here before they run. Trust me, this rule is in place for a reason.. not just to cut off conversation.


When you sign up here you receive the terms of service and posting etiquette. All of the rules are included in there. That means every time you post you are posting knowing these rules.

I have linked them so many times I am dizzy and I will not link them again. They are on the main page of websleuths.

Again, please post responsibly. We all want these girls home.
 
  • #509
I agree. Chief Deputy Rick Abben appeared to be more pessimistic (or maybe realistic?) about the evidence and leads, whereas FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault seemed very optimistic, to the point many people assumed FBI had already found the girls and were keeping them in protective custody. I think we all want something more in the middle, or at least more information to go on!
 
  • #510
Thank you for your posts and your insights as a local!!

Would others (i.e., locals) have known of TG's daily riding of the trail? And, do you know if TG would ride the trail at the same time each day? My reason for asking is not that I question TG's statements. Rather, I'm wondering -- if the bikes were staged, would the perps had known of TG's daily biking and somehow tried to use that in their planning? I'm probably not being clear, as I don't have a theory that I'm working towards, just a question that popped into my head.

Good question I thought you were very clear!!
I only hope whoever took them is not as smart as people on here.
That way they will be caught!
 
  • #511
I'm a (somewhat) local too :woohoo: so I know exactly what you mean! I have been glued to this case from the beginning because this is too close to home for me. What scares the crap out of me is the lack of experience LE has when it comes to cases like this. How can we possibly expect a tiny town's LE to know the "right" way to handle scenarios like this when they happen next to NEVER?

I really pray LE are going to surprise the heck outta me and break this wide open with something soon that gives these poor families SOME sort of answer (good or bad). I believe they are all doing all they can to bring these girls home.

Stranger abductions happen next to never for almost any town in the US.

Yes, there are things that would no doubt have been handled differently had the Evansdale PD known from the very beginning that this was an abduction versus two kids who were lost or ran away or who had been in some sort of accident.

But they couldn't know that in advance, no one could. Preserving what no one knew was a crime scene was incompatible with searching the lake area around that rock jetty and the wooded area. It was most important to move fast in case any number of potential accidents that could result in two unconscious kids had happened.

From where I'm sitting (90 miles away), it looks to me like the Evansdale PD handled it well. As soon as they got the report from Heather Collins that there were two missing girls, they started searching. They called in the local volunteer firefighters to help search. They covered a significant amount of the town on that first evening.

Just that much response would be hotly envied by many people who have had children disappear and gotten a "yawn, probably just another runaway" reaction from their local PD.

LE managed to get over 800 people out that first Saturday to search. They got over 1000 people out that first Sunday to search. They covered 12 square miles in one weekend. They did it in horrible heat and humidity without losing anyone to heatstroke or other serious accident, which speaks well of their safety precautions.

A lot of families of missing children are lucky if the local PD searches 12 blocks!

Not only did the Evansdale PD act fast, they started calling for help ASAP. They called the state SAR organisations for help which allowed them to deploy very early the first Saturday morning.

When it started to look like it was more than two lost, runaway or injured children, they promptly called the DCI and the FBI for help.

So far as I can see, it looks to me like they did everything right and I don't see any really glaring mistakes.

I don't know if anyone else here remembers United Airlines Flight 232, which went down near Sioux City. Right afterward, so many people were depressed because 111 people on board died. It took awhile for it to sink in that the coordinated response of the pilots plus local emergency services saved 185 people.

That was a miracle because that jet went down too fast and at too steep an angle for a landing. It broke apart on landing, caught on fire and rolled over.

Yes, the loss of life was tragic but the excellent response to the conditions, both in the air and once the jet was on the ground, meant that a lot of lives were saved.

I see the Evansdale PD in much the same way. No, there hasn't been a storybook perfect ending (yet) but they have done darn well and I don't see any reason to reproach them.

Tangential note: someone I had admired for his excellent riding, Michael Matz, became my personal hero for getting out of that plane while leading 3 children to safety and then making the deliberate decision to go back in to the burning wreckage to save an infant.
 
  • #512
I'm a (somewhat) local too :woohoo: so I know exactly what you mean! I have been glued to this case from the beginning because this is too close to home for me. What scares the crap out of me is the lack of experience LE has when it comes to cases like this. How can we possibly expect a tiny town's LE to know the "right" way to handle scenarios like this when they happen next to NEVER?

I really pray LE are going to surprise the heck outta me and break this wide open with something soon that gives these poor families SOME sort of answer (good or bad). I believe they are all doing all they can to bring these girls home.


Because they are trained to do it, even if it's never happened in that town before. It's taught in the police academy. They're also free to ask for extra manpower from other agencies, which most of them do pretty quickly.

It's kind of the same thing as going to nursing school, you have to train to do a whole lot of stuff that you may never have to do... but you still have to know how to do it before you graduate.
 
  • #513
Stranger abductions happen next to never for almost any town in the US.

Yes, there are things that would no doubt have been handled differently had the Evansdale PD known from the very beginning that this was an abduction versus two kids who were lost or ran away or who had been in some sort of accident.

But they couldn't know that in advance, no one could. Preserving what no one knew was a crime scene was incompatible with searching the lake area around that rock jetty and the wooded area. It was most important to move fast in case any number of potential accidents that could result in two unconscious kids had happened.

From where I'm sitting (90 miles away), it looks to me like the Evansdale PD handled it well. As soon as they got the report from Heather Collins that there were two missing girls, they started searching. They called in the local volunteer firefighters to help search. They covered a significant amount of the town on that first evening.

Just that much response would be hotly envied by many people who have had children disappear and gotten a "yawn, probably just another runaway" reaction from their local PD.

LE managed to get over 800 people out that first Saturday to search. They got over 1000 people out that first Sunday to search. They covered 12 square miles in one weekend. They did it in horrible heat and humidity without losing anyone to heatstroke or other serious accident, which speaks well of their safety precautions.

A lot of families of missing children are lucky if the local PD searches 12 blocks!

Not only did the Evansdale PD act fast, they started calling for help ASAP. They called the state SAR organisations for help which allowed them to deploy very early the first Saturday morning.

When it started to look like it was more than two lost, runaway or injured children, they promptly called the DCI and the FBI for help.

So far as I can see, it looks to me like they did everything right and I don't see any really glaring mistakes.

I don't know if anyone else here remembers United Airlines Flight 232, which went down near Sioux City. Right afterward, so many people were depressed because 111 people on board died. It took awhile for it to sink in that the coordinated response of the pilots plus local emergency services saved 185 people.

That was a miracle because that jet went down too fast and at too steep an angle for a landing. It broke apart on landing, caught on fire and rolled over.

Yes, the loss of life was tragic but the excellent response to the conditions, both in the air and once the jet was on the ground, meant that a lot of lives were saved.

I see the Evansdale PD in much the same way. No, there hasn't been a storybook perfect ending (yet) but they have done darn well and I don't see any reason to reproach them.

Tangential note: someone I had admired for his excellent riding, Michael Matz, became my personal hero for getting out of that plane while leading 3 children to safety and then making the deliberate decision to go back in to the burning wreckage to save an infant.

Excellent post. God Bless Michael Matz and dear Barbaro.
 
  • #514
Completely OT (or maybe not) I would just like to post that I am going through some severe difficulties at the moment and have been helped ONCE AGAIN by the kindness of a stranger.

We tend to get very pessimistic at all the crime and horror we read, but I can assure you there are far, far more Angels out there, than the other sort.

You may not realise it but even a small act of kindness may well save someone's life.

I pray the girls find an Angel.

:please:
 
  • #515
we are absolutely NOT going to go here again with sleuthing the witnesses. No we are not

This would include the "hay" conversation.

<respectfully snipped for space>

Again, please post responsibly. We all want these girls home.

Thank you Nurse! I was getting pretty nervous we were possibly headed down that path again. I don't know if it'd do that much good but just a thought, maybe every time the mods post "this is a victim friendly site" you could also say "this is witness friendly site"?

BBM - that's for sure!
 
  • #516
Stranger abductions happen next to never for almost any town in the US.

Yes, there are things that would no doubt have been handled differently had the Evansdale PD known from the very beginning that this was an abduction versus two kids who were lost or ran away or who had been in some sort of accident.

But they couldn't know that in advance, no one could. Preserving what no one knew was a crime scene was incompatible with searching the lake area around that rock jetty and the wooded area. It was most important to move fast in case any number of potential accidents that could result in two unconscious kids had happened.

From where I'm sitting (90 miles away), it looks to me like the Evansdale PD handled it well. As soon as they got the report from Heather Collins that there were two missing girls, they started searching. They called in the local volunteer firefighters to help search. They covered a significant amount of the town on that first evening.

Just that much response would be hotly envied by many people who have had children disappear and gotten a "yawn, probably just another runaway" reaction from their local PD.

LE managed to get over 800 people out that first Saturday to search. They got over 1000 people out that first Sunday to search. They covered 12 square miles in one weekend. They did it in horrible heat and humidity without losing anyone to heatstroke or other serious accident, which speaks well of their safety precautions.

A lot of families of missing children are lucky if the local PD searches 12 blocks!

Not only did the Evansdale PD act fast, they started calling for help ASAP. They called the state SAR organisations for help which allowed them to deploy very early the first Saturday morning.

When it started to look like it was more than two lost, runaway or injured children, they promptly called the DCI and the FBI for help.

So far as I can see, it looks to me like they did everything right and I don't see any really glaring mistakes.

I don't know if anyone else here remembers United Airlines Flight 232, which went down near Sioux City. Right afterward, so many people were depressed because 111 people on board died. It took awhile for it to sink in that the coordinated response of the pilots plus local emergency services saved 185 people.

That was a miracle because that jet went down too fast and at too steep an angle for a landing. It broke apart on landing, caught on fire and rolled over.

Yes, the loss of life was tragic but the excellent response to the conditions, both in the air and once the jet was on the ground, meant that a lot of lives were saved.

I see the Evansdale PD in much the same way. No, there hasn't been a storybook perfect ending (yet) but they have done darn well and I don't see any reason to reproach them.

Tangential note: someone I had admired for his excellent riding, Michael Matz, became my personal hero for getting out of that plane while leading 3 children to safety and then making the deliberate decision to go back in to the burning wreckage to save an infant.

What a great post! I couldn't agree with you more. I think Evansdale PD handled the initial few days just as they should have. We can't judge them because they didn't get the results we all hoped for, which was finding the girls immediately. Besides, when TG called about seeing the bikes after he realized the girls were missing, the police already had the bikes and knew where they were. He wasn't providing them with new information except for the approximate time he saw the bikes. I'm sure if he had called and said he had seen the girls riding in a white van at 12:23 p.m. the police would have talked to him immediately.
 
  • #517
Completely OT (or maybe not) I would just like to post that I am going through some severe difficulties at the moment and have been helped ONCE AGAIN by the kindness of a stranger.
<snipped for space>

I'm sorry to hear that SapphireSteel - the difficulties part. I'm glad to hear that you've been helped by a stranger's kindness. It's a good reminder.
 
  • #518
I think LE focused on the lake..It seemed to be the natural conclusion..
The ball was dropped on these girls..Human error is to blame..

:tyou: "....".....
 
  • #519
Just wanted to send good wishes to Mother Ocean who is dealing with the illness of a beloved Father and for now, at the mercy of Mother nature.
Sapphire Steel, hope your situation eases somewhat - and that you continue to find strength and comfort in the knowledge that most people are good. It is so true, that sometimes the world can turn right side up with "the kindness of strangers".
 
  • #520
I frequently facebook check craigslist etc while i'm walking lol maybe i'm alone on that

You're one of those people who walk and text? :what:
:floorlaugh: watch out for manholes!
 
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