IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #20

[GrainneDhu]

A good topic IMO. I do have a question - why does "sex trafficking" seem to come up as the first answer lately if the motive isn't clear? Am I just naive or newly familiar with this 'trend'? It freaks me out that within a few hours of kids going missing people are turning to "human trafficking" as an answer - not just this case, others too. . Is it really that widespread? That scares the heck out of me.

Related to the girls IMO I think Aunt T knows more that she either can't share or it hasn't been released publicly - and this is nothing negative against her whatsoever. I just think there's more she's either been told not to say or is afraid to say publicly. I hope I'm right because I think she loves these two little girls and wants to help them.

Aside from a handful of cases, what is now called human trafficking (used to be called prostitution) of US citizens mostly involves runaway kids, throwaway kids and drug addicts. There is minimal flow of human trafficking out of the US; most of the flow is towards the US because, to quote Willie Sutton, that's where the money is.

As a business model, abducting children away from their homes is not a viable proposition. There are so many children and young adults who can be lured into sex work that there's no point in abducting children who will then attract unwanted notice to the traffickers (pimps).

In third world countries, human trafficking is a much greater problem. In places like the former Soviet bloc states, abduction into human trafficking is a very real phenomenon. However, even there, the usual model is luring via the promise of well paying jobs in Europe and the US.

And the real problem is not the children and women who are trafficked. The real problem is the European and USAn appetite for prostitutes and . If the demand did not exist, trafficking would not exist.

I consider it highly unlikely that Elizabeth and Lyric were abducted for the purposes of human trafficking. On the other hand, if they were trafficked (prostituted) it would mean they are still alive. Considering the most likely alternative, I can see why TB is clinging to the hope that they were trafficked.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Aside from a handful of cases, what is now called human trafficking (used to be called prostitution) of US citizens mostly involves runaway kids, throwaway kids and drug addicts. There is minimal flow of human trafficking out of the US; most of the flow is towards the US because, to quote Willie Sutton, that's where the money is.

As a business model, abducting children away from their homes is not a viable proposition. There are so many children and young adults who can be lured into sex work that there's no point in abducting children who will then attract unwanted notice to the traffickers (pimps).

In third world countries, human trafficking is a much greater problem. In places like the former Soviet bloc states, abduction into human trafficking is a very real phenomenon. However, even there, the usual model is luring via the promise of well paying jobs in Europe and the US.

And the real problem is not the children and women who are trafficked. The real problem is the European and USAn appetite for prostitutes and . If the demand did not exist, trafficking would not exist.

I consider it highly unlikely that Elizabeth and Lyric were abducted for the purposes of human trafficking. On the other hand, if they were trafficked (prostituted) it would mean they are still alive. Considering the most likely alternative, I can see why TB is clinging to the hope that they were trafficked.

Thanks for the info about human trafficking. It's something that is discussed more now in MSM than in the past, and as a result people are more aware of it. I think that is why the subject arises when there is the unsolved abduction of a child.

I agree with you that it is unlikely Elizabeth and Lyric were abducted and forced into prostitution. But as you said, at least that would mean the girls are alive, so I can understand TB wanting to hold on to that hope rather than a more unpleasant alternative. IMO.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Other than the skate park, is there any other area near the lake where kids might tend to congregate?

I hope LE spoke to those kids, because they may have noticed unusual vehicles or people in the area in the days leading up to Lyric and Elizabeth's abductions. JMO

 

[Reverie]

I had an Irish great-grandmother.

Did your grandfather leave during or as a result of the Great Hunger?

Yes he did, bringing his wife and young children. Living conditions were deplorable.

I do hope/pray that Lyric and Elizabeth are found soon.

 

[TxLady2]

Would the description of someone within the family/friends circle be released? I don't think so. That's the only way that makes sense to me. The LE may have had their sights right from the start. Proving it is another matter to bring it to prosecution & conviction. jmo

Probably not, unless this 'friend or acquaintance' is missing too. If LE knows the whereabouts of such a person, there would be no reason to release his/her name or picture.

IMO, if they've had their sights on someone all this time, then it would make sense that they would have taken this person in for questioning and put pressure on them, which would attract some attention in the media, or at the very least, have a 24 hour surveillance on them. I don't think they have a specific person in mind, rather they are looking at several possibilities. JMO.

 

[nursebeeme]

Following the alleged abductions of Evansdale, Iowa, cousins Elizabeth Collins, 9, and Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, the Dubuque County Sheriff's Department began to look for more resources for individuals in potential danger. They, like a number of other state agencies, settled on a nonprofit alert program in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., called A Child is Missing.

http://www.thonline.com/news/tri-state/article_7d11a34a-7970-52bb-b132-b486bf08ae33.html

 

[Marilynilpa]

http://www.thonline.com/news/tri-state/article_7d11a34a-7970-52bb-b132-b486bf08ae33.html

Sometimes it takes something bad to bring about needed changes or improvements. I'm glad to see that the abduction of Lyric and Elizabeth has resulted in changes being made, and A Child is Missing will help LE get the word out in the future.

I noticed the article still refers to Lyric and Elizabeth's abduction as "alleged". What do they think, the girls are just hiding out somewhere? I think it's way past time to get rid of the "alleged" part of the description.

 

[nursebeeme]

re: alleged

imhoo it is semantics

 

[threecrazykids]

http://www.woi-tv.com/story/19540941/with-few-new-leads-vigil-spotlights-missing-cousins

snipped and bolded for discussion:

Also, if someone said they were going to Evansdale that weekend but then later said plans changed and they didn't go or someone's behavior has changed.

Just thinking out loud here: If I remember correctly, there have been discussions about "uniformed" people...or people who wouldn't appear to be a threat. And wasn't there another case where some sort of "umpire" was involved in an abduction...like a little league umpire? Or maybe I made that up, but I thought someone had mentioned something about that on here.

Anyway, we know that Lizzie was at a game the night before they went missing. Was there maybe a tournament going on at the ball diamonds that were close to the campground? One that would have lasted through Saturday?

Or that due to heat it may have been cancelled? I know umpires are brought in from surrounding towns for games (in our town anyway). I wonder if maybe this person had every reason to be around town, wouldn't look suspicious, or maybe is someone who regularly umpires games?

I know the games probably weren't being held at the time of the abduction as most parents would be working etc, but I'm wondering if this person could have driven into the area to "check out the diamonds"?

And then maybe the games didn't take place due to heat, or were cancelled for some reason? This would explain the plan to go to Evansdale, but then plans changed.

Just trying another avenue...

 

[SapphireSteel]

Aside from a handful of cases, what is now called human trafficking (used to be called prostitution) of US citizens mostly involves runaway kids, throwaway kids and drug addicts. There is minimal flow of human trafficking out of the US; most of the flow is towards the US because, to quote Willie Sutton, that's where the money is.

As a business model, abducting children away from their homes is not a viable proposition. There are so many children and young adults who can be lured into sex work that there's no point in abducting children who will then attract unwanted notice to the traffickers (pimps).

In third world countries, human trafficking is a much greater problem. In places like the former Soviet bloc states, abduction into human trafficking is a very real phenomenon. However, even there, the usual model is luring via the promise of well paying jobs in Europe and the US.

And the real problem is not the children and women who are trafficked. The real problem is the European and USAn appetite for prostitutes and . If the demand did not exist, trafficking would not exist.

I consider it highly unlikely that Elizabeth and Lyric were abducted for the purposes of human trafficking. On the other hand, if they were trafficked (prostituted) it would mean they are still alive. Considering the most likely alternative, I can see why TB is clinging to the hope that they were trafficked.

Human trafficking can in no way be mistaken for "prostitution".

Prostitution is VOLUNTARY and results in a profit to the prostitute.

The term you are looking for is "white slavery"...outdated to be sure.

There is no profit to the victim or voluntary circumstances in human trafficking...it is INVOLUNTARY (ie. forced) and the profit goes to a third party.

NB: the "profit" may not be cash.

 

[foxbluff]

According to the weather records for July 13, 2012, there was .17 inch of rainfall that day. Maybe the "official" recording station was in a location that didn't receive as much rain as other locations. Because IIRC, more than one local has mentioned rain that day.

Thanks, Marilyn and all peeps who searched their memories regarding rainfall.

In case the subj should come up again, we need to keep in mind that the 0.17" rainfall on July 13th (& the 0.0" from Jul.9-Jul.12) was for Waterloo, not for Evansdale. Ty.

 

[Sunlight]

Thanks, Marilyn and all peeps who searched their memories regarding rainfall.

In case the subj should come up again, we need to keep in mind that the 0.17" rainfall on July 13th (& the 0.0" from Jul.9-Jul.12) was for Waterloo, not for Evansdale. Ty.

Maybe you could put this info in "tags". Don't ask me, I don't know how...lol

 

[nursebeeme]

Maybe you could put this info in "tags". Don't ask me, I don't know how...lol

I stuck it in there

 

[nursebeeme]

Folks: if you type in a link and you see stars like this ******** or part of the address is ******** that means that address or site is not approved by administration for linking or discussion here at websleuths for good reason.


Just posting this as a general service announcement. It lands randomly as there have been several "stars in the skies" today.

 

[Kimster]

You must use links to state facts. If the link goes "***********", it is a site that is not allowed to be discussed on Websleuths for one reason or another.

ETA: I posted this at the same time as Nurse. kay:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thanks for the info about human trafficking. It's something that is discussed more now in MSM than in the past, and as a result people are more aware of it. I think that is why the subject arises when there is the unsolved abduction of a child.

I agree with you that it is unlikely Elizabeth and Lyric were abducted and forced into prostitution. But as you said, at least that would mean the girls are alive, so I can understand TB wanting to hold on to that hope rather than a more unpleasant alternative. IMO.

I want to give a nod to the Portland Oregon PD for the paradigm shift they triggered. Someone there had a revolutionary idea: instead of treating underage prostitutes as criminals, let's treat them as victims of child sexual abuse and maybe we can reduce the problem that way.

Gee, it turns out that if you treat a 14 year old prostitute as a criminal, she won't talk or cooperate with police (imagine that). But if you treat her with compassion and offer her help as you would any child victim of sexual abuse, she'll cooperate and give you insights into a world most people (and particularly most customers of prostitutes) don't want to know about.

Human trafficking into the US is nothing new. What's new is the attitude with which it is viewed.

 

[Snowbunny]

Sorry I didn't know....It was suppose to be a news article I put up.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Probably not, unless this 'friend or acquaintance' is missing too. If LE knows the whereabouts of such a person, there would be no reason to release his/her name or picture.

IMO, if they've had their sights on someone all this time, then it would make sense that they would have taken this person in for questioning and put pressure on them, which would attract some attention in the media, or at the very least, have a 24 hour surveillance on them. I don't think they have a specific person in mind, rather they are looking at several possibilities. JMO.

I agree.

I think if LE had one particular individual in mind, they'd be asking about that particular person. And if they were asking everyone about a particular person, one or more of the people asked would share it with the media.

 

[foxbluff]

I stuck it in there

Thks for the suggestion, Sunlight. It's strange that I didn't think of having this thread tagged given our failure to find the "old discussion" due to no tags!

Ty, "Busy Bee Mod" for tagging. I had to smile when I saw your post because, knowing you were onboard, I was trying to decide whether to ask you for assistance. lol

 

[TxLady2]

Sometimes it takes something bad to bring about needed changes or improvements. I'm glad to see that the abduction of Lyric and Elizabeth has resulted in changes being made, and A Child is Missing will help LE get the word out in the future.

I noticed the article still refers to Lyric and Elizabeth's abduction as "alleged". What do they think, the girls are just hiding out somewhere? I think it's way past time to get rid of the "alleged" part of the description.

I think because they have no solid evidence that proves they were abducted, they have to say alleged for legal purposes.
Isn't the general consensus here that the girls knew the person and they lured them to go with them? If so, then technically they were not abducted. Maybe they were held hostage afterwards, but in legal terms if they went with this person willingly, they were not kidnapped.
As Nurse said.... semantics.