IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[peeples]

New article at the courier anyway. and several pics of the area

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_bf44da9c-4092-11e2-86a8-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[peeples]

Anyone else find it a coincidence or maybe more that the reward for information rose to $150K a few days before they were found? Maybe it's nothing but it had me wondering today.

I think it had to do with the snow coming and and it being deer season. I think they were trying to get people out for the final push before chances of finding them were about nill.

MOO

 

[FrayedKnot]

Getting into a boat or canoe (and possibly being seen) seems to me to be a convoluted way to dump two bodies.

I just can't see it...it's not impossible though I guess.

I just can't get my head around the circumstances of the bodies...it just seems such a strange way for them to be found, still identifiable.

They haven't decomposed at all from the sounds of things which means they were either killed just before they were found, or they were frozen.

It just doesn't sound like they've been there that long...unless they mummified I suppose...they may still have recognisable features.



:cow:

ITA. IMO, it is far more likely that the perp drove as far off road as he safely could and walked the rest of the way in, carrying first one girl and then the other.

Because he is probably a local he knew the bodies likely wouldn't be found until hunting season and any trace evidence would be long gone. (Or so he hopes)

I also think we will be told that the bodies were not "placed" or laid out in any symbolic way, nor were they covered with anything to protect them from the elements.

If this scenario proves out, I would also guess family members, especially parents could be ruled out. Statistically even the most monstrous parents will cover or "swaddle" the children they have killed before leaving their bodies at a dump site. Swell, huh?


Anyhoo, its all MOO

 

[cindersoot]

We are so lucky Iowa never recieved any snowfall., because it would make it so much harder to collect surrounding evidence.

 

[passionflower]

Do we know for sure the girls had on the same clothes as they wore the day they went missing?
Also if they were killed right away in the same clothes and
NOT out in the elements does that mean that they were kept in a refrigerated area?? then dumped later???

 

[passionflower]

https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=evansdalesearch

 

[lishac23]

I'm thinking the crimes you are describing above are most usually home invasion type crimes.

This is a different type of crime so you really can't use those as comparison, we would need to compare how many abductions of multiple children are single perp to get an accurate statistic.

:cow:

No offense but I didn't conduct my research on home invasions. I'm aware of what type of case this is. And as I stated it was based on information I've read stastically presented by Criminal profilers, who work with LE on abduction cases.

Examples... the Greone case (two children, one perp); A case in GA back in February where two children were abducted by a single perp; two teen girls were abducted and sexually assaulted in Los Angeles several years ago by Roy Ratliff before cops shot him, to name a few. I'm sure there are cases of more than one perp abducting multiple children but my research was done in response to several posters who were wondering if it was possible for one perp to have abducted both girls.

 

[not_my_kids]

I don't know what the classification of the case is now (missing maybe?) but I can't see any reason for a delay in changing it to homicide.
What other classification could they possibly charge this case - accident, snakebite, killed by animals, murder-suicide or what?

If they are waiting on the ME for an official cause of death, the cause may not be able to be determined. It could end up being a homicide by undetermined means like it was in FL for Caylee. What good did that do for her?

Maybe I just don't understand the logic.

Right now, the case is still classified as an abduction. I think it is obvious that if the bodies belong to the girls, they were murdered, and there is a double homicide. However, they are not willing/able to call it that until the medical examiner confirms that it is them, and a manner of death of is determined. Even a cause is never found, a manner of death will have to be determined before LE can call it a homicide.

 

[amber1]

I also thank God for delaying the snowfall. It's crazy because we are scheduled for a snowfall today or tomorrow, so I really do believe God held the snow so they could be found.
I know they are doing an ID still on the remains, but I am positive it is the girls. Of course they would be located within the one county that did not scour the park. I am from around the region and drive through Evansdale, Iowa weeks after the girls vanished-it is just heart breaking. I have also found many articles showing their have been multiple child abduction attempts within Iowa and Southern MN, and that is very scary. I hope they find who did this, because I am positive they will do it again. What concerns me is the fact they took both girls at the same time-this means there was more than one person or one person who has the strength and ability to handle both at once.
I also think it's important to see if they were dumped there shortly after they were taken or preserved and then dumped. Because is the second scenario is the case, it is more likely the person who did it is located within the county they were found in, rather than where they were taken. And it makes it likely that they are still lurking around the area because they are from the area. If they were left there afterwards, who knows where the perp could be.

My heart breaks for the family, their were high hopes they would not come home this way.

 

[craftybatchy]

Not to be disgusting, but mummification only last for so long before certain bugs reduce the body to bone. Usually occurs at about 50 days...give or take. I've seen a mummified corpse and you wouldn't be able to tell what the person looked like.

(My apologies for being so graphic)

It could also be that the remains were not complete in that the heads may have been disfigured or otherwise removed, making identification based on hair, facial features quite difficult, regardless of the state of decomposition.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Lishac, you can add Westley Alan Dodd-he ALONE took control of and murdered two brothers(aged 10 n 11) in Vancouver, Washington in 1989. He used a knife.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I don't know what the classification of the case is now (missing maybe?) but I can't see any reason for a delay in changing it to homicide.
What other classification could they possibly charge this case - accident, snakebite, killed by animals, murder-suicide or what?

If they are waiting on the ME for an official cause of death, the cause may not be able to be determined. It could end up being a homicide by undetermined means like it was in FL for Caylee. What good did that do for her?

Maybe I just don't understand the logic.

I believe the case is still ruled an abduction.

Regarding the homicide classification - while it seems painfully obvious that we are dealing with two homicides, I can see why LE wants to make sure before stating that. But really, what other explanation can there be for Lyric and Lizzie being found in that place, so far from where they were last seen?

ETA: I feel that it wasn't really Lyric and Lizzie, two loved and loving little girls, who were found at Seven Bridges. The essence of what made them so special has passed on to a gloriously better place, IMO, leaving just empty shells behind. I know many people won't agree with me on this, but I find it does make me feel better.

 

[not_my_kids]

ITA. IMO, it is far more likely that the perp drove as far off road as he safely could and walked the rest of the way in, carrying first one girl and then the other.

Because he is probably a local he knew the bodies likely wouldn't be found until hunting season and any trace evidence would be long gone. (Or so he hopes)

I also think we will be told that the bodies were not "placed" or laid out in any symbolic way, nor were they covered with anything to protect them from the elements.

If this scenario proves out, I would also guess family members, especially parents could be ruled out. Statistically even the most monstrous parents will cover or "swaddle" the children they have killed before leaving their bodies at a dump site. Swell, huh?


Anyhoo, its all MOO

For me, the dump site rules out all parental involvement anyway. Mothers usually dump children in water, a link to maternal instinct and the carrying of the child in the womb. In a statistical analysis of cases done by NCMEC, mothers that kill will leave their children within 1 mile of the family home, in nearly every single case. Fathers, typically within 10 miles of the family home.

22 miles away in a desolate area. That's not a parental murder, IMO.

 

[JustJeannie]

I don't know what the classification of the case is now (missing maybe?) but I can't see any reason for a delay in changing it to homicide.
What other classification could they possibly charge this case - accident, snakebite, killed by animals, murder-suicide or what?

If they are waiting on the ME for an official cause of death, the cause may not be able to be determined. It could end up being a homicide by undetermined means like it was in FL for Caylee. What good did that do for her?

Maybe I just don't understand the logic.

There is a difference between cause of death and manner of death. Manner of death is overall circumstance - natural, accidental, homicide, suicide, or undetermined. Then they issue a cause of death which is more specific - cancer, gunshot wound, suffocation, undetermined, etc.

I'm pretty sure the ME has to declare the manner of death a homicide before the police can officially call it such, which is why the delay.

 

[not_my_kids]

The sheriff's office had asked neighboring counties, including Bremer County, to search their parks and wildlife areas for the girls after they vanished last summer, Thompson said. He said that as far as he knows, Bremer County officers did search the popular hunting and fishing spot but that the bodies would have been hard for anyone to spot.
"Even the hunters, if they had gone five feet in either direction, would not have found those bodies," he said.
http://www.southwestiowanews.com/co...cle_b2bb2f02-40a0-11e2-b799-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[LucyOso]

BBM

Sounds to me they need to wait for DNA testing to ID the bodies. JMO

Exactly. They can make a tentative ID based on certain things at the scene. Clothes, orthodontics, cavities, bone fractures/injuries in medical charts, earrings, etc. I am sure they are not "bodies" in a sense of recently deceased. But, if the parents have no need to see them, then they are most likely pretty decomposed.

Has anyone wondered if this could have been an accident that got out of control. Maybe one girl was hit by a car in the road or by a bike on the bike path and seriously injured and someone panicked and killed both, dumping them where they knew they would eventually be found out of guilt. If one was injured, the other would obviously get in a vehicle to go to the "hospital". I guess we will have to see what comes out in the autopsy reports. However, I am sure that will not be shared if there is a clue to cause of death, etc that only the perp would know. :-(

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

I hadn't thought about the accident angle, but I would think if they were injured on the bike, bike damage would have been mentioned. Good thought, though! I'm going to ponder that a bit more...

 

[Foxfire]

Man, that would be a very bold or very stupid perp. But with what little we have to go on whose to it couldn't have happened that way.

True, tlcox.. I was very disappointed in the amount of information released to the public in the recent press conference. Law enforcement has furnished too few details to put residents' minds at ease, imo. Most folks probably don't believe there's a deranged child predator living in their midst but you really never know.

Since hunters have now found the bodies, the rumor mill will be churning very hard in this slow paced farming community.. The questions will be many, but the community needs answers. Silence is the predators most lethal weapon...

Hold back evidence & info is vital in missing/murdered investigations and prosecutions. Yet when all vital evidence & info is with held due to the integrity of the investigation, their most valuable resource; the American public is squandered and many times the case goes cold..imo...

 

[LisaB]

Are you thinking of "false" imprisonment?

Maybe, but that didn't sound right either. Maybe unlawful restraint?

 

[Seajay]

My heart goes out to the parents and entended family members of both these beautiful angels. I can 't imagine the pain they are all feeling right now. My sincere condolences to the families.

A single perp for two girls is easy I would think. Children are taught to respect and obey adults, so getting them under control would be fairly easy. In most cases, children are afraid to not do as an adult says. JMO