IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[cindersoot]

No, it's not that far, but 140 lbs. is quite a lot to carry even 50 feet.

A skeleton doesn't weigh that much.

 

[carbuff]

:lol:

The hogs are back...

Under the rules of KISS, they were not carried in there. They walked.

:cow:

I'm thinking that is indeed the simplest solution, though in crimes of this kind it seems like it's a lot more common to murder the victim, then dump them somewhere else.

 

[carbuff]

A skeleton doesn't weigh that much.

Ah, so you're thinking they were killed elsewhere, left to decay, and then moved recently?

 

[Squeeze]

Catching up, I'm still about ten pages behind,. A couple of things from a local perspective :

This area, although remote, is a popular hunting site, so there is really no telling how many other hunters have almost stumbled upon them. Maybe the odds are really good that they WOULD have beenfound. It being the 5th day of deer hunting season, odds are this area was walked before.

Now my theory, which ihavent seen before unless I missed it. The girls left Elizabeth's house and there has not been any reliable sitings after that. Suppose they got a block or two away, and were lured into a house. Maybe they stopped at a friends and they weren't home, but a creepy older brother or uncle was. They get inside, they were eventually killed and- sorry aboutthis - they were put in a freezer. Now with deer hunting coming, the creepy uncle needs to empty the freezers. He remembers a remote spot up north, maybe as a hunter or partier.

I have always felt that that the bikes were dumped and that the girls never left evansdale.

 

[otto]

Thanks, otto. I was measuring farther back, to where the road first disappears into the trees -- and didn't notice that it continued. My bad.

500 feet is still quite a distance for the average person to carry 140 lbs, especially over uneven ground. Which would seem to point to:


The girls walked to the place where they were found
A large strong person carried them
More than one person carried them
An average person carried/dragged them, and came home very tired
A way to carry -- ATV, wheelbarrow, tractor, warthog team pulling a chariot, etc.

I would think that an ATV would attract too much attention from the neighbors. The land on the other side of the river (North) is privately owned.

http://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=330&LayerID=3621&PageTypeID=1&PageID=2344

 

[cindersoot]

Ah, so you're thinking they were killed elsewhere, left to decay, and then moved recently?

Could be.

 

[hollyblue]

I still can't imagine if it were the dumping scene why in 2 spots so far apart...I tend to think they were killed there...and either
1) one was killed with the other watching and the other tried to run and was caught up with or shot
2) More than one perp and possibly sexually assaulted in separate spots by different perps.

Awful scenarios, but that is what enters my mind

It could be one was placed there earlier...either days or months..and the perp wasn't particular about placing them together or didn't want to trek too far because of the weight of Lyric. imo

 

[princessk]

Catching up, I'm still about ten pages behind,. A couple of things from a local perspective :

This area, although remote, is a popular hunting site, so there is really no telling how many other hunters have almost stumbled upon them. Maybe the odds are really good that they WOULD have beenfound. It being the 5th day of deer hunting season, odds are this area was walked before.

Now my theory, which ihavent seen before unless I missed it. The girls left Elizabeth's house and there has not been any reliable sitings after that. Suppose they got a block or two away, and were lured into a house. Maybe they stopped at a friends and they weren't home, but a creepy older brother or uncle was. They get inside, they were eventually killed and- sorry aboutthis - they were put in a freezer. Now with deer hunting coming, the creepy uncle needs to empty the freezers. He remembers a remote spot up north, maybe as a hunter or partier.

I have always felt that that the bikes were dumped and that the girls never left evansdale.

I can't accept this theory because the girls were supposedly headed toward the lake weren't they? How would this person know to discard them there? Just by coincidence?

 

[cindersoot]

Woke up to snow this morning, first time this year. Thank goodness the girls bodies were found before snowfall.

 

[otto]

It could be one was placed there earlier...either days or months..and the perp wasn't particular about placing them together or didn't want to trek too far because of the weight of Lyric. imo

It seems to me that if they were placed side by side, rather than end to end some distance apart, they would have been a lot easier to find.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Thanks for the link. Would that mean that the perp lives somewhere in this general area?

Wait, so Dunkerton is right smack in between the dump site and the kidnap site -- in the CENTER of the awareness space?! Hmmmm.... Just sayin'.

 

[Confusion]

No, it's not that far, but 140 lbs. is quite a lot to carry even 50 feet.

That really depends on the physique of the person. When I was about 16, I helped a friend lay a concrete patio. One of my jobs was to go to the shed and grab a new bag of concrete when we got low. I'd pick it up and carry it over my shoulder to where it was mixed, which was about 70 feet and uphill (not a real steep one). People were rather surprised that I could do it since the bags weighed 125 pounds, and I weighed 105. I'm sure that a reasonably fit man could carry 145# that way without too much effort.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Ok I'm going out on a limb here and saying whoever took and dumped them does not own a property.

If the perp had property of their own, they would have buried them on it in my opinion.

I just find the choice of dump site to be very, very odd. Everyone knows water destroys forensic evidence, and Iowans tell us how many bodies of water are around, so why did he not just tip them off a bridge one late night, like Shawcross? Or dump them into a pond? Or leave them 15 ft in not 500? With the sounds of the foliage at the time, they still would have been just as hidden, and just as accessible to critters...so why carry them both that far in? That would be hard work.

I firmly believe that your average criminal is lazy, so this dump site makes no sense at all to me, unless the girls were walked in.

Or there were two perps carrying a body each and one of them gave up and refused to move another foot because he/she was sweaty and tired and didn't want to break a fingernail or something.

Either way I pray this means the girls never even knew what hit them.

:cow:

 

[pearl]

It's no more than 500 feet, more likely closer to 400. A mile is 5280 feet ... so 1/4 mile would be 1320 feet.

Thanks for this map. I am spatially challenged and was having trouble trying to figure out the distances associated with the site. This map did it for me.

 

[otto]

I can't accept this theory because the girls were supposedly headed toward the lake weren't they? How would this person know to discard them there? Just by coincidence?

The girls were not headed to the lake. They had permission to ride the "loop" around the alley and across to the shopping center, and were expected to stay close to home. They were last seen riding towards the shopping center. Lyric had been told shortly before the disappearance that she was not allowed to ride to Meyers Lake.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I still can't imagine if it were the dumping scene why in 2 spots so far apart...I tend to think they were killed there...and either
1) one was killed with the other watching and the other tried to run and was caught up with or shot
2) More than one perp and possibly sexually assaulted in separate spots by different perps.

Awful scenarios, but that is what enters my mind

Last summer with the vegetation at full growth, once a body was dropped it would be immediately concealed.

So the perp may have gotten a little lost when he was dropping the second body. He knew he was close to the first body but may not have been able to see exactly where it was.

 

[otto]

Ok I'm going out on a limb here and saying whoever took and dumped them does not own a property.

If the perp had property of their own, they would have buried them on it in my opinion.

I just find the choice of dump site to be very, very odd. Everyone knows water destroys forensic evidence, and Iowans tell us how many bodies of water are around, so why did he not just tip them off a bridge one late night, like Shawcross? Or dump them into a pond? Or leave them 15 ft in not 500? With the sounds of the foliage at the time, they still would have been just as hidden, and just as accessible to critters...so why carry them both that far in? That would be hard work.

I firmly believe that your average criminal is lazy, so this dump site makes no sense at all to me, unless they were walked in.

I pray this means they never even knew what hit them.

:cow:

So ... if the perp lives in Evansdale he would have buried them in his backyard? I find that unlikely.

 

[otto]

Wait, so Dunkerton is right smack in between the dump site and the kidnap site -- in the CENTER of the awareness space?! Hmmmm.... Just sayin'.

I was thinking about that too ... someone that may have some connection to that location.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thanks, otto. I was measuring farther back, to where the road first disappears into the trees -- and didn't notice that it continued. My bad.

500 feet is still quite a distance for the average person to carry 140 lbs, especially over uneven ground. Which would seem to point to:


The girls walked to the place where they were found
A large strong person carried them
More than one person carried them
An average person carried/dragged them, and came home very tired
A way to carry -- ATV, wheelbarrow, tractor, warthog team pulling a chariot, etc.

If the perp wasn't strong enough to carry Lyric's body, the cheapest, easiest solution would be to put it on a blue plastic tarp and drag it. The sort of vegetation in that area is pretty springy and the trail would disappear within hours. It takes quite a few feet going over the same path repeatedly to make a permanent trail in that sort of vegetation.

 

[Foxfire]

Due to the proximity and access to the river, it would be reasonable to conclude that the July heat would not have deterred the perp from using the 7 bridges area as a campsite or safe haven. The high temp was 83 degrees for the area on July 13, 2012 & should have been a few degrees less due to the river & thick forest canopy.

(MS) Adam Mayes held the (TN)Bains sisters in an abandoned hunting-type lodge & were located hiding in the woods for days in 90 degree May temps.


http://wreg.com/2012/05/10/adam-mayes-dead/
The FBI also confirmed Mayes and the kids were in a hunting-type lodge in the woods the entire time they were missing.
The Bain sisters are suffering from dehydration, but otherwise OK.