IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[princessk]

The girls were not headed to the lake. They had permission to ride the "loop" around the alley and across to the shopping center, and were expected to stay close to home. They were last seen riding towards the shopping center. Lyric had been told shortly before the disappearance that she was not allowed to ride to Meyers Lake.

But they rode there anyway many times...didn't that man watering the lawn see them that day and many other times to the point he knew Elizabeth? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[princessk]

And why did the family want LE to go to the lake to search if they weren't going there?

 

[Foxfire]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cindersoot
My mouth is full of toast, can't speak, sorry.

Quote: Hollyblue
Good girl......(Spit coffee on screen with that one.)
__________________
Timeline, map, etc for Rachael
https://docs3.google.com/document/ed...PniSLRIE&pli=1#

Guessing, cindersoot has a Dragon..

 

[dadgum]

That really depends on the physique of the person. When I was about 16, I helped a friend lay a concrete patio. One of my jobs was to go to the shed and grab a new bag of concrete when we got low. I'd pick it up and carry it over my shoulder to where it was mixed, which was about 70 feet and uphill (not a real steep one). People were rather surprised that I could do it since the bags weighed 125 pounds, and I weighed 105. I'm sure that a reasonably fit man could carry 145# that way without too much effort.

Carrying, lifting, moving a body, or a person with no muscle tone is not an easy task. When Sam was 110lbs after the hospital, I could 'dead-lift' him into a wheelchair. At 165, no. It takes 2 fit people to move him.

Carrying them is not a real good option, not through the overgrowth, grass (waist high), and over uneven ground. If they did not walk in there, I think more likely dragged on a tarp or blanket.

That is the single caregiver fire escape plan here..bed to floor on quilt, and drag out the door and down the ramp. Much easier and quicker than a carry, unless you are a firefighter type person.

 

[pearl]

Otto,
Do you have any estimates about how far Lyric and Elizabeth were found from each other?

 

[Sere-nity]

So ... if the perp lives in Evansdale he would have buried them in his backyard? I find that unlikely.

I think what is being speculated is that if the perp owned their own property they would leave the bodies somewhere on their land.


The thinking is because they put the girls in a park signifies that they don't own the land they live on.

Apartment/condo/trailer park... these are places that come to mind when thinking of places to live where you don't own the land that the building sits on.

 

[cindersoot]

Ok I'm going out on a limb here and saying whoever took and dumped them does not own a property.

If the perp had property of their own, they would have buried them on it in my opinion.

I just find the choice of dump site to be very, very odd. Everyone knows water destroys forensic evidence, and Iowans tell us how many bodies of water are around, so why did he not just tip them off a bridge one late night, like Shawcross? Or dump them into a pond? Or leave them 15 ft in not 500? With the sounds of the foliage at the time, they still would have been just as hidden, and just as accessible to critters...so why carry them both that far in? That would be hard work.

I firmly believe that your average criminal is lazy, so this dump site makes no sense at all to me, unless the girls were walked in.

Or there were two perps carrying a body each and one of them gave up and refused to move another foot because he/she was sweaty and tired and didn't want to break a fingernail or something.

Either way I pray this means the girls never even knew what hit them.

:cow:

If the perp burys the bodies on his property then what if he moves, sells his property and the new owners find the remains? Also maybe he thinks he might someday come under LE radar and they will check his property. Killers like to move the remains as far as they can from themselves, as not to be detected. Unless like the Jeff Dahmner types who want to keep them close.

 

[hollyblue]

Have you read that somewhere? As far as I know, the Collins have not moved from their home.

It was "mapped" and stated on a FB page about the girls, but I don't remember if it was Heather's or some other one. That's why I asked...wasn't sure.

 

[cindersoot]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cindersoot
My mouth is full of toast, can't speak, sorry.



Guessing, cindersoot has a Dragon..

:floorlaugh: No, it was just a joke.

 

[otto]

But they rode there anyway many times...didn't that man watering the lawn see them that day and many other times to the point he knew Elizabeth? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

He claimed that he saw Elizabeth every evening riding to the lake, but I would rather hear from her parents that she was away riding her bike every evening. Lyric lived in Waterloo and would not have been riding bikes in the area at all. She was visiting that day because Elizabeth's mother had just started working, and the grandmother, with whom Lyric lived, was watching Heather's children.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I was thinking about that too ... someone that may have some connection to that location.

And we happen to know someone who has a connection to that location. Lives, there, in fact. And placed himself at the scene of the crime. And had a story that was virtually impossible to fit into the timeline, after the video of the girls surfaced with a timestamp on it. Again, just sayin'.

 

[otto]

I think what is being speculated is that if the perp owned their own property they would leave the bodies somewhere on their land.


The thinking is because they put the girls in a park signifies that they don't own the land they live on.

Apartment/condo/trailer park... these are places that come to mind when thinking of places to live where you don't own the land that the building sits on.

Even if a murderer does own property, there is nothing to suggest that murderers that own property put bodies in their back yards. Finding a body in a remote location does not mean that the perp does not own his property. There's no connection between the two.

 

[princessk]

He claimed that he saw Elizabeth every evening riding to the lake, but I would rather hear from her parents that she was away riding her bike every evening. Lyric lived in Waterloo and would not have been riding bikes in the area at all. She was visiting that day because Elizabeth's mother had just started working, and the grandmother, with whom Lyric lived, was watching Heather's children.

I thought they rode together all the time. Perhaps I'm wrong. I haven't kept up on this case since August so maybe I misread something.

 

[cindersoot]

And we happen to know someone who has a connection to that location. Lives, there, in fact. And placed himself at the scene of the crime. And had a story that was virtually impossible to fit into the timeline, after the video of the girls surfaced with a timestamp on it. Again, just sayin'.

We can't go there. Mods will come and be very upset, and we will be in trouble. I have been on time out so much, that I can give you a tour of the naughty chair, so stop.

 

[otto]

Otto,
Do you have any estimates about how far Lyric and Elizabeth were found from each other?

I've heard that they were 40-50 feet from each other. That's roughly the width of a city lot.

 

[JaimeInLA]

LOL! I know!! I'm super sorry! I had moved on from TG until I saw Dunkerton in the center of that map!!

 

[SapphireSteel]

The poor guy. I know he rides his bike a lot but he doesn't seem the sort to go weightlifting, which carrying these two about would resemble.


:waitasec:

 

[Marilynilpa]

Ok, y'all are going to hate me for this, but... The bodies were found near Dunkerton. Wasn't TG from Dunkerton? (Ducking for cover)

:banghead: Oh, no, not him again! Just kidding . . . I think.

I know TG is the favorite suspect of at least one of our members.

I never sleuthed TG, so there are probably things about him that I don't know, but with the info I got via MSM, I just don't see him being the perp. JMO

 

[otto]

Carrying, lifting, moving a body, or a person with no muscle tone is not an easy task. When Sam was 110lbs after the hospital, I could 'dead-lift' him into a wheelchair. At 165, no. It takes 2 fit people to move him.

Carrying them is not a real good option, not through the overgrowth, grass (waist high), and over uneven ground. If they did not walk in there, I think more likely dragged on a tarp or blanket.

That is the single caregiver fire escape plan here..bed to floor on quilt, and drag out the door and down the ramp. Much easier and quicker than a carry, unless you are a firefighter type person.

Or someone with the military that works out all the time. My daughter married a military guy and I've seen him pick her up and throw her over his shoulder ... with ease.

 

[roseofsharon]

Even if it's a 1/4 mile, so what, he is carrying small bodies, this means he is a big man.

Maybe the perp dragged the bodies if it was only a short distance.

He may have used a rug and a rope to do this.

He may have had some rope burns on the palms of his hands, if he didn't use a good pair of gloves.

Once at the dump site, he rolled the bodies out of the rug. Would this give the bodies more momentum for rolling down the slope?

Someone very strong though for sure.

Speculation/IMO.

Another thought: Two people carrying, one at the head, one at the feet.